R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    @HoundofShadow

    The point on max champ 4's is probably even longer than you think.

    I have been a typically T20 PVE, T10 PVP player for a couple years-ish now.  I have a grand total of 6 max champ 4's.  I mean it's not great to lose some CP or whatever along the way but dilution ensures that it will be a very, very, very long time to max champ anyone who you don't target.  It takes a little over 100 Legendary pulls to get a cover - right now - for each 4.  If you wanted 100 covers for each (let's say you gathered the first 13 from other places or whatever) that would be 10,000 pulls.  My lifetime pull count is around....3800 or so after 4 years.

    Even whales are probably years away from, say, a max champed Spidey 2099.

    All this worrying about high end stuff ignores the fact that dilution is still a big problem.....at best I think the champ rewards are a wash by taking some champ reward CP out but adding in 1.5 4's for 28 of the 3's.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Let's be honest, majority of the players are not doing 2* or 3* farming. Neither are the majority of the players going to max champ majority of their 4*. Also, let's not act as if majority of the players are max champing 40 4* within 6 months or a year or they are farming 3* multiple times a year. They are probably going to take another 1-2 years to get all their 3* dup again.

    I've played MPQ for almost 2 in-game years and only about one-third of my 3* have been duped once and majority of my champed 4* are still at level 28X. This is coming from someone getting top 10 in SCL 7 PvEs consistently and top 50 in SCL 9 PvP consistently. It's going to be another 2 in-game years of competitive playing before I might be able to max champ at least a quarter of my 4*. For players who don't play as competitively as me, it's going to take them another 3-4 in-game years to "realise" these "losses".

    Here are the changes for 4* rewards:

    Level               Added in         Taken out
    296            100 5* P.Shards      4cp
    298            150 5* P.Shards      4cp
    300            250 5* P.Shards      1 5* cover

    316            100 5* P.Shards      5cp
    318            150 5* P.Shards      5cp
    320            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    336            100 5* P.Shards      7cp
    338            150 5* P.Shards      7cp
    340            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    346            100 5* P.Shards      7cp
    348            150 5* P.Shards      7cp
    350            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    356            100 5* P.Shards      8cp
    358            150 5* P.Shards      8cp
    360            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    On the surface, you are looking at a loss of 62CP per 4* character. If you multiply it by 90, it comes up to almost 5600 CP lost. Ask yourself, how long will it take for majority of the players to get more than 90  of their 4* to level 360.

    These changes will greatly affect the top 1% or 5% of the playerbase. Overall it's a good change for your average players to fulfill their dreams of champing a few specific characters.


    Like I said earlier, the CP will not hurt too much but the HP will. I am at the point where I will bar 2 characters have max Champed all 3's, some flipped, some have dupes but basically with all the new drains on HP due to changes this year I am back to being severely HP crunched. 3* shards are useless to me unless I can roster the character but I now have other shard store HP pressure, new 5* HP pressure and Christmas is coming with normally decent HP stores. So for the guys sitting on 20-30k HP hoards happy days but this is bad news for players like me I think.
  • Basepuzzler
    Basepuzzler Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    They balanced the rewards table by taking away rewards from the top end players that the masses wouldn’t reach often and increasing (or colorlessing) rewards that the masses would more easily reach.  

    Except...why is that necessary?  Instead of removing rewards just put them at the end of the reward chain.  Shift the 4* cp to the last levels between 360 and 370.  That way the whales are made whole, and the masses who are benefitting from colorless covers won’t ever see those rewards earned back without spending.


  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah I'm not worried about the HP losses on 4*. I'm nowhere near to getting my four stars to 330 let alone 370 but the HP loss for 3* will hurt a lot. Again this isn't a top end issue, I'm not a high level pvp player and T100-150 these days in pve.

    I've finished in the 4* covers twice in pve. Antman and 2099. I get a lot of elite tokens and the £1.99 buy gets me bonus tokens each day yet this will cost me at least 30k to 40k HP per year. That's a big loss for not really much faster progression combating dilution.

    If in the next 3 months I can no longer compete in ST or maintain having all four stars champed, well then the proof will be there. My hoard and roster speaks for itself, I could maintain those 4*s off heroic pulls alone and BH and mop the last cover here and there to champ level when I broke hoard.
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    bluewolf said:

    @Projectus2501 I highly doubt that people will spend more as a result of getting less CP as the link is fairly indirect (other than for buy club folks, I guess).  The HP nerf could have more of an impact.
    Man... In this type of game every resource is the same. It's all an abstraction. The main point is: players will have less free resources in quantity
  • Ptahhotep
    Ptahhotep Posts: 428 Mover and Shaker
    Daredevil217 said: 
    A small example is you used get 4 CP at 296 and 4 at 298. Not much right? Those are more easily obtainable levels than 370. 8 CP? Meh. Nothing to get upset at. Multiply that by 90 characters who will not be getting that reward and you are looking at 720 CP! And that’s just three champ levels in one tier. We are already getting less pulls than under BH but they are continuing to gouge. 


    It’s not 90 characters though, it’s only 37. If they’re not feeders the rewards are unchanged.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Typical mpq (or any live service game really): add a highly requested update and hype the announcement ad nauseum, while also glossing over the simultaneous (and in this case absolutely unnecessary) nerf.

    Chsmpioning was historically a pretty big share of course income (there were some threads on this matter in 2017 or early 2018.  Not sure if that has changed, but they haven't added many new sources since then.  And champ rewards were also a good way for casual play to turn into useful endgame resources.  Now casual vets roll have to pay or play more to keep up with their old resource rate.

    This is just a ****, unnecessary change done for no reason other than to keep the positive elements (shards for colorless covers in champ rewards and more feeders)  being too player-friendly. 

    Did ddq in 2015 really break the game that badly? Why can we never just get a nice, pure upside-for-players change anymore?  It's not like the number of characters to roster isn't almost 4x times bigger now.  Giving players more resources will not destroy the game when more elements to chase are constantly being added too. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    HoundofShadow said:
    Let's be honest, majority of the players are not doing 2* or 3* farming. Neither are the majority of the players going to max champ majority of their 4*. Also, let's not act as if majority of the players are max champing 40 4* within 6 months or a year or they are farming 3* multiple times a year. They are probably going to take another 1-2 years to get all their 3* dup again.

    I've played MPQ for almost 2 in-game years and only about one-third of my 3* have been duped once and majority of my champed 4* are still at level 28X. This is coming from someone getting top 10 in SCL 7 PvEs consistently and top 50 in SCL 9 PvP consistently. It's going to be another 2 in-game years of competitive playing before I might be able to max champ at least a quarter of my 4*. For players who don't play as competitively as me, it's going to take them another 3-4 in-game years to "realise" these "losses".

    Here are the changes for 4* rewards:

    Level               Added in         Taken out
    296            100 5* P.Shards      4cp
    298            150 5* P.Shards      4cp
    300            250 5* P.Shards      1 5* cover

    316            100 5* P.Shards      5cp
    318            150 5* P.Shards      5cp
    320            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    336            100 5* P.Shards      7cp
    338            150 5* P.Shards      7cp
    340            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    346            100 5* P.Shards      7cp
    348            150 5* P.Shards      7cp
    350            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    356            100 5* P.Shards      8cp
    358            150 5* P.Shards      8cp
    360            250 5* P.Shards       1 5* cover

    On the surface, you are looking at a loss of 62CP per 4* character. If you multiply it by 90, it comes up to almost 5600 CP lost. Ask yourself, how long will it take for majority of the players to get more than 90  of their 4* to level 360.

    These changes will greatly affect the top 1% or 5% of the playerbase. Overall it's a good change for your average players to fulfill their dreams of champing a few specific characters.


    Hound, most players will never even fully cover a 5* character, let alone champ a full 5* team.  These changes only affect the top 5-10% of players because they only MATTER to that tier of player. 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    So why stop at 75 4* characters being fed by 3*'s when some 4*'s are still having two 3*'s feeding the same character? Not all the 4*'s have a feeder. So it seems like an odd choice.
  • Projectus2501
    Projectus2501 Posts: 218 Tile Toppler
    Borstock said:
    Real progress in this game, especially as old as it is now, is about the grind. It's about the resources earned over a LONG period of time. It isn't about one event or one character. Sweeping changes are the ones that really matter, and this one costs us the most valuable resources the game offers. I'm totally confused by anyone suggesting this isn't a big deal. It's a big deal. It's one I can live with, but it's a big deal.
    Couldn't say it better
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's a long time to get 6 champed 4*. I'm way off by a lot. It will probably take me a couple decades to max champ them.  :o

    I decided to quantify my "losses".
    For 2* farming, I flip 13 characters every 1.5 months or 8 times a year.

    My yearly losses would be:
    104,000 iso-8
    6240 HP
    1352 Heroic Tokens (85 4*, 270 3* and 997 2* covers)

    My gain would be 1352 MT (193 4* covers and 1159 3* covers).

    I think more 4* and 3* covers gained will help me to soften the blow because I will be leveling out 3* and 4* faster and they gives more rewards. It's really tough to quantify.
    __________________________
    3* Farming loss and gain
    __________________________
    The losses for 1 flip of 3* farming will take me about 2 years to be realised. So, I'm not going to be affected much.

    28 3* will feed two 4*.
    19 3* will feed one.

    Let's assume 1 flip per year.

    Group 1: only gives primary 4* covers
    Total loss = 6650 HP and 266 CP
    Total gain = 38 MTs (5 4* and 33 3* covers)

    Group 2: gives primary and secondary 4* covers
    Total loss: 308,000 iso-8, 9800HP, 392 CP
    Total gain: 28 4* covers, 28 .5 4* covers and 56 MTs (8 4* and 44 3* covers)

    Both group total loss: 308,000 iso-8, 16,450 HP and 658 CP.
    Both group total gain: 94 Mighty Tokens, 28 4* covers, 28 .5 4* covers.


  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    So it looks like I'm gonna have to champ Emma Frost...wotta revoltin' development.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    So it looks like I'm gonna have to champ Emma Frost...wotta revoltin' development.
    Not champing a character because they are "weak" is kinda silly with the champ rewards they produce. I actually like emma. Yes she is slow and uses repeaters but I like the board control she brings once she gets rollin.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    So it looks like I'm gonna have to champ Emma Frost...wotta revoltin' development.
    Not champing a character because they are "weak" is kinda silly with the champ rewards they produce. I actually like emma. Yes she is slow and uses repeaters but I like the board control she brings once she gets rollin.

    It isn't "silly" when you have a bunch of other characters that you would like to give that iso to first who are not yet champed either. However I need a Kitty yellow, simple as that.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    tiomono said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    So it looks like I'm gonna have to champ Emma Frost...wotta revoltin' development.
    Not champing a character because they are "weak" is kinda silly with the champ rewards they produce. I actually like emma. Yes she is slow and uses repeaters but I like the board control she brings once she gets rollin.

    It isn't "silly" when you have a bunch of other characters that you would like to give that iso to first who are not yet champed either. However I need a Kitty yellow, simple as that.
    All characters have value. Emma's just got boosted. Are the other characters that you want to spend iso on going to change your gameplay or daily routine with the game? That's all I was saying. I hope you get your kitty yellow without too much fuss.

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