R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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  • Razuhlui
    Razuhlui Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2019
    KGB said:

    So what does that have to do with your question on my progress/enjoyment?  Well obviously if I get 1 set of rewards for a L370 and someone else gets something more they can potentially beat me out of future placement in PvE/PvP and impact my future rewards. Small chance, yes. But my question back to you is, what do you have against me (and others) sharing in the same reward (ie when we both have a L370, we have both earned the same champ level rewards). How does that affect your enjoyment/progress and why would you want to deny me the same rewards?

    These are not the same characters? Why does my Magik 370 not gain the same reward as My CapAmerica Worthy 370 you ask?
    You're comparing your apples with other's pears?
    What brings us back to the statement :
    KGB said:

    Because it affects me when they get stuff I don't. Getting an extra 6 LTS and 60 CP's per max champed 4* is a TON of extra resources I can't get. There are players who will get that for every new feeder which means they got hundreds more CP and 50+ more LT's that I get for doing the exact same thing! That's not fair.


    How can anybody have Ton of extra resources, you can't get, for doing the exact same thing?. That would be truly unfair.
    Like others mentioned, you, I and all players are not  doing the exact same thing. Otherwise it would be an homogeneously playerbase, where everybody has the same roster, the same speed in pve, the same points. Everybody would be same placement.
  • Cheetah1982
    Cheetah1982 Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    KGB said:
    @jp1: Give an example of how your enjoyment of the game or your personal progress will be impeded because of someone getting the retroactive rewards they earned...if you don’t mind.

    Many years ago when SCL first went live there was a bug where players with multiple devices could log in multiple times and receive hundreds of thousands  (possible millions?) of free extra ISO. There was a similar uproar about this. D3 did nothing to roll back the ill gotten ISO. The message was sort, you'll get there eventually and so what if they champ a few more characters earlier than you cause of all that extra ISO.

    So what does that have to do with your question on my progress/enjoyment?  Well obviously if I get 1 set of rewards for a L370 and someone else gets something more they can potentially beat me out of future placement in PvE/PvP and impact my future rewards. Small chance, yes. But my question back to you is, what do you have against me (and others) sharing in the same reward (ie when we both have a L370, we have both earned the same champ level rewards). How does that affect your enjoyment/progress and why would you want to deny me the same rewards?

    @DarthDarthDeVo: The first year or so I barely played the game. Just logged in and did a prologue match and got the resupply award. So while my resupply day says 1800ish the truth is I've only been 'playing' about as long as you have. I didn't even join an alliance until Civil War was first run (which was after my 2nd year of playing). So yeah, my roster progress looks slow because of that. But the last 3 1/2 years I've been a very regular player (finish T20 and sometimes T10 in CL7 PvE and 900 in PvP) in a non-competitive alliance. Spent a total of $120 dollars on the game (VIP this entire year for the costumes).

    So the question becomes then are players who spend more (play 2 win) or played longer (vets) or played harder supposed to benefit more (more than the PvE/PvP placement they already get)? If D3 comes out and states this, then hey, I'll accept it since it's their game. But if that is not an official statement then I don't see why I'm out of line for asking for the same rewards for the the same thing (ie my L370 gets what your L370 gets) regardless of when you/I started or how much we spent.

    @BuzzedLightBeer: Yes, if you re-read my statement I said that players should be getting all the 2* and 3* champ reward changes too. That you should be able to petition for those reward changes just like you can petition for a 4* reward changes (ie at L211 the 3* reward is now a mighty token and everyone should be able to get that token by exchanging it for what they did get there (50 hp I think)). Or if that's too much customer service effort I suggested D3 has to 'make it rain' and give out double dips on every reward change for 2*, 3* and 4*. What they should not do is just do something for the 4* shard changes that become 5* (ie  not just 5* feeders) because that's the most unfair thing of all to do.

    1) Someone suggested I wasn't enough of a vet to have 'suffered enough' in the early days before cover saves and other things. That response was to them saying that things that happened long ago have nothing to do with what's going on now and what's fair and what's not fair now. It has no relevance other than to that comment directed at me about how much I suffered in playing the game a long time ago.
    2) Actually, what you should have gotten (and what many read) was a total of 7 covers. As 1 cover and 3000 shards. The extra 500 shards was meant to be a veteran bonus for passing L300, 320 etc. In other words veteran rosters were to get a little extra which I thought was a nice gesture. No one (including myself) thought it meant you were getting 500 total instead of 2500 + a bonus 500.
    3) The problem is that it IS double dipping. You already got the rewards at those levels. They totalled 6 LT's and 60 CP. Then if you get more rewards for passing those same levels you are in fact double dipping because you are being rewarded twice for passing the same level. The fact D3 did it in the past doesn't make it not double dipping.
    Also, threads here are filled with tales of players cracking massive hordes of tokens at all levels just before this went live. Now why do you suppose they did that? Be honest, it was to pass as many double dip points as possible to maximize as many extra rewards as possible in there 2,3 and & 4* characters. It's normal human nature. So at least acknowledge it for what it is, a max reward grab.
    4) OK, so what's your proposal? Just make the 5* players whole with double rewards? As I said and answered BuzzedLightBeer, what's your answer to those players? Must D3 make it rain rewards across tiers otherwise why do those players have to miss out when according to vets, you get to double dip whenever D3 makes a change to the reward structure (that's all 5* feeders are, a change to the reward structure at a few specific points). It seems they do everything (make it rain) or do nothing (no one gets anything more). At least my suggestion while being very hard to do let each player decide what they wanted changed.

    KGB

    I’m on day 184 and have won 1st in the last 4 PVE events in CL 7. I’m always top 10. I also pull 900 in PvP. If you are only as far along as me there is no way your effort equals the competitive veterans. You may be working 40 hours a week too, but in a much lower pay grade. 
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,238 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Razuhlui said:

    These are not the same characters? Why does my Magik 370 not gain the same reward as My CapAmerica Worthy 370 you ask?
    You're comparing your apples with other's pears?
    What brings us back to the statement :


    How can anybody have Ton of extra resources, you can't get, for doing the exact same thing?. That would be truly unfair.
    Like others mentioned, you, I and all players are not  doing the exact same thing. Otherwise it would be an homogeneously playerbase, where everybody has the same roster, the same speed in pve, the same points. Everybody would be same placement.

    I think your misunderstanding what I am writing. So let me put it another way.

    Say we both start a 3 day PvE event. Part of the day 2 progression is 8 cp (CL7). You wake up at 6 am and do your clears and in the process get 8 cp. At 10 am D3 suddenly announces the 8 cp reward is going to be replaced by a 4* cover. Then they award everyone who already passed the 8 cp point a 4* cover in addition to the 8 cp they already got.  Now I play at noon and only the the 4* cover. Am I wrong is asking why they are getting the 8 cp AND the 4* cover or why I am also not getting the 8 cp? It's progression.

    The champ rewards are nothing more than progression (100 levels worth for 3/4/5*). I don't see a single thing in that progression chart that says big spenders/faster players/long time vets or anything one else gets extra rewards.

    Hence, why should players who receive retroactive rewards not have to give back the initial earned reward? Or why shouldn't players like myself get both rewards? In my example above would you not expect all players to get 8 cp and the 4* cover or all players just get the 4* cover? Why would anyone expect some players get 8+4* and some not. That's wildly unfair and it's even worse to continue to do it.


    KGB
  • shadow2999
    shadow2999 Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    KGB, as one who is often on the unpopular side of debates, I certainly can respect your conviction.  Though, I think your are totally wrong, I will commend you for sticking to your guns.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,238 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    I was never cool with it in the past but no one ever seemed to want to talk about the issue because so many were happy with the double dip and the new feeder that any talk of fairness in how it was rolled out was always just 'wait and one day you'll get yours when your roster gets there'.

    It's worse now that ever before because it's not just 6 LT's that got changed. It's 16 rewards that got changed for the shards so in addition to the 6 LT's is also 60 cps. It's become worse than it was in terms of unfairness.

    KGB
  • Razuhlui
    Razuhlui Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    KGB said:
    Razuhlui said:

    These are not the same characters? Why does my Magik 370 not gain the same reward as My CapAmerica Worthy 370 you ask?
    You're comparing your apples with other's pears?
    What brings us back to the statement :


    How can anybody have Ton of extra resources, you can't get, for doing the exact same thing?. That would be truly unfair.
    Like others mentioned, you, I and all players are not  doing the exact same thing. Otherwise it would be an homogeneously playerbase, where everybody has the same roster, the same speed in pve, the same points. Everybody would be same placement.

    I think your misunderstanding what I am writing. So let me put it another way.

    Say we both start a 3 day PvE event. Part of the day 2 progression is 8 cp (CL7). You wake up at 6 am and do your clears and in the process get 8 cp. At 10 am D3 suddenly announces the 8 cp reward is going to be replaced by a 4* cover. Then they award everyone who already passed the 8 cp point a 4* cover in addition to the 8 cp they already got.  Now I play at noon and only the the 4* cover. Am I wrong is asking why they are getting the 8 cp AND the 4* cover or why I am also not getting the 8 cp? It's progression.

    But that's not how it goes, they won't change reward mid events. 
    Yeah you're wrong cause. The announcement would be before to clarify for everybody that after the event ends everybody reached the 8 Cp would rewarded an additional 4*. If you're not reaching that point you did not play to that reward. 

    Your complain goes , you didn't receive the reward the first time cause you didn't play, but in the new event you reached it and now you're complaining that you didn't get your reward from the first event.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Razuhlui said:
    KGB said:
    Say we both start a 3 day PvE event. Part of the day 2 progression is 8 cp (CL7). You wake up at 6 am and do your clears and in the process get 8 cp. At 10 am D3 suddenly announces the 8 cp reward is going to be replaced by a 4* cover. Then they award everyone who already passed the 8 cp point a 4* cover in addition to the 8 cp they already got.  Now I play at noon and only the the 4* cover. Am I wrong is asking why they are getting the 8 cp AND the 4* cover or why I am also not getting the 8 cp? It's progression.

    But that's not how it goes, they won't change reward mid events. 

    The "double dipping" is more like how subsequent event runs will have fewer rewards than they did at launch. See: Sakaar Arena run 1 + 2
    Places of Power run 1 + 2
    etc

    If you were there for the first run, you had a better shot than people who were there for a re-run.
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    Makes me nostalgic for the first run of galactus. Not everything was better first time around. 

    Just sayin 😂
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    BrutusTheCat said:
    So the main "Benefit" of switching to shards as champ rewards was that "If you are a little tight on roster slots, you can save them for later" about a direct quote from IceX's post, but the first feeder reward is still a cover not shards. So by the time you have enough shards for a cover you've either already lost one cover or you don't need to save the shards. 

    Look I'd be more ok with this change if you did remove covers completely and replaced the first cover with the shard equivalent. 
    As someone with everyone rostered (privilege), I never thought of that. Really good point!
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’ve been thinking a bit about it, and it does kind of lower the threshold to complete a 5* youre also chasing directly. Unclear exactly how meaningful that is going to be in practice compared to the resource loss.
  • spatenfloot
    spatenfloot Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Well, if they aren't going to do anything with supports, maybe they can replace the red iso with our missing HP and CP.
  • namanjohnson101
    namanjohnson101 Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    edited March 2020
    They balanced the rewards table by taking away rewards from the top end players that the masses wouldn’t reach often and increasing (or colorlessing) rewards that the masses would more easily reach.  

    Except...why is that necessary?  Instead of removing rewards just put them at the end of the reward chain.  Shift the 4* cp to the last levels between 360 and 370.  That way the whales are made whole, and the masses who are benefitting from colorless covers won’t ever see those rewards earned back without spending. get-9apps.com get-cartoonhd.com
  • Jacklag
    Jacklag Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    edited January 2020
    Explain to me how is it possible that 3* Thanos primary feed isn't Nebula? 

    And, I know it's a minor gripe, but it would be cuter if Star*Lord and Gamora fed each other, the way 3* Gambit feeds Rogue and Rogue feeds 5* Gambit.

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