R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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  • marshallmarshall Posts: 170 Tile Toppler
    @KGB

    If you started later you benefitted from increased rewards, saved covers, better, more powerful 4*s, more feeders for transitions, and so many other things. For someone in 5* land those LLs and CP don't really amount to life changing benefits.

    Example: it took me 2 years to fully cover Doc Ock, still trying with Star Lord despite being a 1666 player
  • mega ghostmega ghost Posts: 1,120 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does anyone know if this is completely rolled out yet? I received a handful of rewards yesterday that all seemed to be tied to 4* feeder updates, but have not received any of the retroactive rewards for my 3*s or 2*s — these are coming, correct?
  • The rockettThe rockett Posts: 1,956 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does anyone know if this is completely rolled out yet? I received a handful of rewards yesterday that all seemed to be tied to 4* feeder updates, but have not received any of the retroactive rewards for my 3*s or 2*s — these are coming, correct?
    no.  This is it but they are to be working on it 
  • whitecat31whitecat31 Posts: 569 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2019
    KGB said:
    <snip out irrelevant>
    1. So what about it? The game was what it was then in the same manner as I once could smoke indoors at my job, drink and drive, spank my kids and many other things no longer allowed. In other words, things change and talking about the old times isn't relevant.

    <Snip>
    2. Whitecat,  you were supposed to get 100 extra shards per 20 levels on a 5*. That's what ICEIX post refers to when he says 100 shards for each place you would have received a 5* cover. That's why a max champ gets 500 shards. Those 500 are the 5 bonus points.

    <snipped out misrepresentation of what is bothering veterans. >


    3. So when you want to double dip on the new shards. 
    <snipped out information that ignores precedent by game developers>


    4. Hence I suggested a fair compromise where players could request reward swaps they wanted but would have to give back what they had already earned at that particular level. It's obviously going to be a nightmare, never said it wasn't. But it would be fair and that's probably the best D3 can do.

    KGB
    I snipped out a lot of your post. I dont think it is constructively addressable.
    1.  Who reminisces about the good old days about drinking and driving and other societal destructive habits in a thread like this? I don't see this as constructive toward your points.
    2. No. I was supposed to get the equivalent of 6 covers. Not 2 based on historical precedents. This is what is bothering many of the veterans. We clearly know what ICEx said.
    3.it is not double dipping. It is retroactive rewards, given because otherwise if a character is not a feeder, it is punitive to champ it due to what happens when it finally become a feeder. 
    4. I already pointed out your compensation system would cost the company too much money, be near impossible to do, and ruin customer service for everything else in an earlier response.
  • mega ghostmega ghost Posts: 1,120 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does anyone know if this is completely rolled out yet? I received a handful of rewards yesterday that all seemed to be tied to 4* feeder updates, but have not received any of the retroactive rewards for my 3*s or 2*s — these are coming, correct?
    no.  This is it but they are to be working on it 
    To clarify, does this mean "No, this is not completely rolled out yet and they are working on it" or "No, those retroactive rewards are not coming, but they they're taking our feedback under advisement?"
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,444 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does anyone know if this is completely rolled out yet? I received a handful of rewards yesterday that all seemed to be tied to 4* feeder updates, but have not received any of the retroactive rewards for my 3*s or 2*s — these are coming, correct?
    no.  This is it but they are to be working on it 
    To clarify, does this mean "No, this is not completely rolled out yet and they are working on it" or "No, those retroactive rewards are not coming, but they they're taking our feedback under advisement?"
    The latter. We got what they set out to give, and then everybody blew up, and now it is being taken under advisement.
  • mega ghostmega ghost Posts: 1,120 Chairperson of the Boards
    Does anyone know if this is completely rolled out yet? I received a handful of rewards yesterday that all seemed to be tied to 4* feeder updates, but have not received any of the retroactive rewards for my 3*s or 2*s — these are coming, correct?
    no.  This is it but they are to be working on it 
    To clarify, does this mean "No, this is not completely rolled out yet and they are working on it" or "No, those retroactive rewards are not coming, but they they're taking our feedback under advisement?"
    The latter. We got what they set out to give, and then everybody blew up, and now it is being taken under advisement.
    Thanks, and bummer. Have they acknowledged any issues in delivering these rewards? Because I got some 5* covers, but in the announcement post IceIX specifically mentioned retroactive rewards for 2* champs (and imagine 3* champs as well?) and I didn't get any of those, not even shards. IceIX said:

    • You’ve got a level 94 just championed Wolverine (Astonishing X-Men). Congratulations on the Champion! You haven’t started to receive the Champion rewards yet, so you’ve got all the (now changed) rewards ahead of you. 

    • Black Widow (Original) just hit level 108 prior to this change. You got a cover for Black Widow (Grey Suit) already, so you won’t receive that reward again. However, at 107 there are 100 Shards available with the update. You’ll receive these 100 Shard when the update goes through.

    • Your Bullseye (Dark Avengers) is level 120. You received a Bullseye (Classic) Black cover at level 115 before the change. You would have received 100 Bullseye (Classic) Shards at 119 with the change. So you will receive these Shards when the update happens to ensure you can continue progress to the next Bullseye (Classic) cover.

  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,444 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    The way it appears to have worked was it only gave shards that were part of the current milestone you were working towards, and nothing earlier. So if you were between 107 and 114, you’d have gotten 100 shards. If you were at 119-126, you’d have gotten 100 shards towards that 127 reward but nothing earlier than that. At 127-144 you got nothing. Same at the 3 and 4 tiers for existing feeders. No tokens were given out. also none of the secondary shards added to the 3* characters seem to have gone out.
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    @jp1: Give an example of how your enjoyment of the game or your personal progress will be impeded because of someone getting the retroactive rewards they earned...if you don’t mind.

    Many years ago when SCL first went live there was a bug where players with multiple devices could log in multiple times and receive hundreds of thousands  (possible millions?) of free extra ISO. There was a similar uproar about this. D3 did nothing to roll back the ill gotten ISO. The message was sort, you'll get there eventually and so what if they champ a few more characters earlier than you cause of all that extra ISO.

    So what does that have to do with your question on my progress/enjoyment?  Well obviously if I get 1 set of rewards for a L370 and someone else gets something more they can potentially beat me out of future placement in PvE/PvP and impact my future rewards. Small chance, yes. But my question back to you is, what do you have against me (and others) sharing in the same reward (ie when we both have a L370, we have both earned the same champ level rewards). How does that affect your enjoyment/progress and why would you want to deny me the same rewards?

    @DarthDarthDeVo: The first year or so I barely played the game. Just logged in and did a prologue match and got the resupply award. So while my resupply day says 1800ish the truth is I've only been 'playing' about as long as you have. I didn't even join an alliance until Civil War was first run (which was after my 2nd year of playing). So yeah, my roster progress looks slow because of that. But the last 3 1/2 years I've been a very regular player (finish T20 and sometimes T10 in CL7 PvE and 900 in PvP) in a non-competitive alliance. Spent a total of $120 dollars on the game (VIP this entire year for the costumes).

    So the question becomes then are players who spend more (play 2 win) or played longer (vets) or played harder supposed to benefit more (more than the PvE/PvP placement they already get)? If D3 comes out and states this, then hey, I'll accept it since it's their game. But if that is not an official statement then I don't see why I'm out of line for asking for the same rewards for the the same thing (ie my L370 gets what your L370 gets) regardless of when you/I started or how much we spent.

    @BuzzedLightBeer: Yes, if you re-read my statement I said that players should be getting all the 2* and 3* champ reward changes too. That you should be able to petition for those reward changes just like you can petition for a 4* reward changes (ie at L211 the 3* reward is now a mighty token and everyone should be able to get that token by exchanging it for what they did get there (50 hp I think)). Or if that's too much customer service effort I suggested D3 has to 'make it rain' and give out double dips on every reward change for 2*, 3* and 4*. What they should not do is just do something for the 4* shard changes that become 5* (ie  not just 5* feeders) because that's the most unfair thing of all to do.

    1) Someone suggested I wasn't enough of a vet to have 'suffered enough' in the early days before cover saves and other things. That response was to them saying that things that happened long ago have nothing to do with what's going on now and what's fair and what's not fair now. It has no relevance other than to that comment directed at me about how much I suffered in playing the game a long time ago.
    2) Actually, what you should have gotten (and what many read) was a total of 7 covers. As 1 cover and 3000 shards. The extra 500 shards was meant to be a veteran bonus for passing L300, 320 etc. In other words veteran rosters were to get a little extra which I thought was a nice gesture. No one (including myself) thought it meant you were getting 500 total instead of 2500 + a bonus 500.
    3) The problem is that it IS double dipping. You already got the rewards at those levels. They totalled 6 LT's and 60 CP. Then if you get more rewards for passing those same levels you are in fact double dipping because you are being rewarded twice for passing the same level. The fact D3 did it in the past doesn't make it not double dipping.
    Also, threads here are filled with tales of players cracking massive hordes of tokens at all levels just before this went live. Now why do you suppose they did that? Be honest, it was to pass as many double dip points as possible to maximize as many extra rewards as possible in there 2,3 and & 4* characters. It's normal human nature. So at least acknowledge it for what it is, a max reward grab.
    4) OK, so what's your proposal? Just make the 5* players whole with double rewards? As I said and answered BuzzedLightBeer, what's your answer to those players? Must D3 make it rain rewards across tiers otherwise why do those players have to miss out when according to vets, you get to double dip whenever D3 makes a change to the reward structure (that's all 5* feeders are, a change to the reward structure at a few specific points). It seems they do everything (make it rain) or do nothing (no one gets anything more). At least my suggestion while being very hard to do let each player decide what they wanted changed.

    KGB

  • PongiePongie Posts: 1,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don’t expect full shards to be retroactive rewards since colourless covers are clearly better than specific covers. However, for the majority of players who are still working towards their 5* rosters, these 100 shards are nowhere as useful as colour specific colours. Instead of 100 shards, they should have just awarded the old specific coloured covers. 

    The vets who already have these 5* championed don’t benefit at all from colourless covers. Those extra shard bonus are meaningless to them. It’s a case of mismatched rewards. 
  • RazuhluiRazuhlui Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2019
    KGB said:

    So what does that have to do with your question on my progress/enjoyment?  Well obviously if I get 1 set of rewards for a L370 and someone else gets something more they can potentially beat me out of future placement in PvE/PvP and impact my future rewards. Small chance, yes. But my question back to you is, what do you have against me (and others) sharing in the same reward (ie when we both have a L370, we have both earned the same champ level rewards). How does that affect your enjoyment/progress and why would you want to deny me the same rewards?

    These are not the same characters? Why does my Magik 370 not gain the same reward as My CapAmerica Worthy 370 you ask?
    You're comparing your apples with other's pears?
    What brings us back to the statement :
    KGB said:

    Because it affects me when they get stuff I don't. Getting an extra 6 LTS and 60 CP's per max champed 4* is a TON of extra resources I can't get. There are players who will get that for every new feeder which means they got hundreds more CP and 50+ more LT's that I get for doing the exact same thing! That's not fair.


    How can anybody have Ton of extra resources, you can't get, for doing the exact same thing?. That would be truly unfair.
    Like others mentioned, you, I and all players are not  doing the exact same thing. Otherwise it would be an homogeneously playerbase, where everybody has the same roster, the same speed in pve, the same points. Everybody would be same placement.
  • Cheetah1982Cheetah1982 Posts: 7 Just Dropped In
    KGB said:
    @jp1: Give an example of how your enjoyment of the game or your personal progress will be impeded because of someone getting the retroactive rewards they earned...if you don’t mind.

    Many years ago when SCL first went live there was a bug where players with multiple devices could log in multiple times and receive hundreds of thousands  (possible millions?) of free extra ISO. There was a similar uproar about this. D3 did nothing to roll back the ill gotten ISO. The message was sort, you'll get there eventually and so what if they champ a few more characters earlier than you cause of all that extra ISO.

    So what does that have to do with your question on my progress/enjoyment?  Well obviously if I get 1 set of rewards for a L370 and someone else gets something more they can potentially beat me out of future placement in PvE/PvP and impact my future rewards. Small chance, yes. But my question back to you is, what do you have against me (and others) sharing in the same reward (ie when we both have a L370, we have both earned the same champ level rewards). How does that affect your enjoyment/progress and why would you want to deny me the same rewards?

    @DarthDarthDeVo: The first year or so I barely played the game. Just logged in and did a prologue match and got the resupply award. So while my resupply day says 1800ish the truth is I've only been 'playing' about as long as you have. I didn't even join an alliance until Civil War was first run (which was after my 2nd year of playing). So yeah, my roster progress looks slow because of that. But the last 3 1/2 years I've been a very regular player (finish T20 and sometimes T10 in CL7 PvE and 900 in PvP) in a non-competitive alliance. Spent a total of $120 dollars on the game (VIP this entire year for the costumes).

    So the question becomes then are players who spend more (play 2 win) or played longer (vets) or played harder supposed to benefit more (more than the PvE/PvP placement they already get)? If D3 comes out and states this, then hey, I'll accept it since it's their game. But if that is not an official statement then I don't see why I'm out of line for asking for the same rewards for the the same thing (ie my L370 gets what your L370 gets) regardless of when you/I started or how much we spent.

    @BuzzedLightBeer: Yes, if you re-read my statement I said that players should be getting all the 2* and 3* champ reward changes too. That you should be able to petition for those reward changes just like you can petition for a 4* reward changes (ie at L211 the 3* reward is now a mighty token and everyone should be able to get that token by exchanging it for what they did get there (50 hp I think)). Or if that's too much customer service effort I suggested D3 has to 'make it rain' and give out double dips on every reward change for 2*, 3* and 4*. What they should not do is just do something for the 4* shard changes that become 5* (ie  not just 5* feeders) because that's the most unfair thing of all to do.

    1) Someone suggested I wasn't enough of a vet to have 'suffered enough' in the early days before cover saves and other things. That response was to them saying that things that happened long ago have nothing to do with what's going on now and what's fair and what's not fair now. It has no relevance other than to that comment directed at me about how much I suffered in playing the game a long time ago.
    2) Actually, what you should have gotten (and what many read) was a total of 7 covers. As 1 cover and 3000 shards. The extra 500 shards was meant to be a veteran bonus for passing L300, 320 etc. In other words veteran rosters were to get a little extra which I thought was a nice gesture. No one (including myself) thought it meant you were getting 500 total instead of 2500 + a bonus 500.
    3) The problem is that it IS double dipping. You already got the rewards at those levels. They totalled 6 LT's and 60 CP. Then if you get more rewards for passing those same levels you are in fact double dipping because you are being rewarded twice for passing the same level. The fact D3 did it in the past doesn't make it not double dipping.
    Also, threads here are filled with tales of players cracking massive hordes of tokens at all levels just before this went live. Now why do you suppose they did that? Be honest, it was to pass as many double dip points as possible to maximize as many extra rewards as possible in there 2,3 and & 4* characters. It's normal human nature. So at least acknowledge it for what it is, a max reward grab.
    4) OK, so what's your proposal? Just make the 5* players whole with double rewards? As I said and answered BuzzedLightBeer, what's your answer to those players? Must D3 make it rain rewards across tiers otherwise why do those players have to miss out when according to vets, you get to double dip whenever D3 makes a change to the reward structure (that's all 5* feeders are, a change to the reward structure at a few specific points). It seems they do everything (make it rain) or do nothing (no one gets anything more). At least my suggestion while being very hard to do let each player decide what they wanted changed.

    KGB

    I’m on day 184 and have won 1st in the last 4 PVE events in CL 7. I’m always top 10. I also pull 900 in PvP. If you are only as far along as me there is no way your effort equals the competitive veterans. You may be working 40 hours a week too, but in a much lower pay grade. 
  • OJSPOJSP Posts: 842 Critical Contributor
    I think part of the issue is finding what is an appropriate reward that can be given in bulk that can be distributed fairly to all players. Calling it just retroactive reward is also implying that they should be fair. In fact, different players are in different stages of roster building and they have different in game performance (they may be equally competitive, but not achieving the same results as other players).

    Calling them retroactive bonus (rewards) would probably be more appropriate as it implies that past performance would affect the amount we receive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_overtime
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Razuhlui said:

    These are not the same characters? Why does my Magik 370 not gain the same reward as My CapAmerica Worthy 370 you ask?
    You're comparing your apples with other's pears?
    What brings us back to the statement :


    How can anybody have Ton of extra resources, you can't get, for doing the exact same thing?. That would be truly unfair.
    Like others mentioned, you, I and all players are not  doing the exact same thing. Otherwise it would be an homogeneously playerbase, where everybody has the same roster, the same speed in pve, the same points. Everybody would be same placement.

    I think your misunderstanding what I am writing. So let me put it another way.

    Say we both start a 3 day PvE event. Part of the day 2 progression is 8 cp (CL7). You wake up at 6 am and do your clears and in the process get 8 cp. At 10 am D3 suddenly announces the 8 cp reward is going to be replaced by a 4* cover. Then they award everyone who already passed the 8 cp point a 4* cover in addition to the 8 cp they already got.  Now I play at noon and only the the 4* cover. Am I wrong is asking why they are getting the 8 cp AND the 4* cover or why I am also not getting the 8 cp? It's progression.

    The champ rewards are nothing more than progression (100 levels worth for 3/4/5*). I don't see a single thing in that progression chart that says big spenders/faster players/long time vets or anything one else gets extra rewards.

    Hence, why should players who receive retroactive rewards not have to give back the initial earned reward? Or why shouldn't players like myself get both rewards? In my example above would you not expect all players to get 8 cp and the 4* cover or all players just get the 4* cover? Why would anyone expect some players get 8+4* and some not. That's wildly unfair and it's even worse to continue to do it.


    KGB
  • shadow2999shadow2999 Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    KGB, as one who is often on the unpopular side of debates, I certainly can respect your conviction.  Though, I think your are totally wrong, I will commend you for sticking to your guns.

  • OJSPOJSP Posts: 842 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2019
    KGB, what I don't understand is.. why is it a problem to you now and not when the other 20 5* feeders were announced before. You had 2 years to complain about it, to the developers.

    Were you hoping you'd be in the position to take advantage of the retroactive rewards too? Again, I think you're not channeling your disappointment to the right people. 
  • KGBKGB Posts: 1,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    I was never cool with it in the past but no one ever seemed to want to talk about the issue because so many were happy with the double dip and the new feeder that any talk of fairness in how it was rolled out was always just 'wait and one day you'll get yours when your roster gets there'.

    It's worse now that ever before because it's not just 6 LT's that got changed. It's 16 rewards that got changed for the shards so in addition to the 6 LT's is also 60 cps. It's become worse than it was in terms of unfairness.

    KGB
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