R192: Champion Rewards Updates

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

So it looks like I'm gonna have to champ Emma Frost...wotta revoltin' development.

Not champing a character because they are "weak" is kinda silly with the champ rewards they produce. I actually like emma. Yes she is slow and uses repeaters but I like the board control she brings once she gets rollin.

It isn't "silly" when you have a bunch of other characters that you would like to give that iso to first who are not yet champed either. However I need a Kitty yellow, simple as that.

All characters have value. Emma's just got boosted. Are the other characters that you want to spend iso on going to change your gameplay or daily routine with the game? That's all I was saying. I hope you get your kitty yellow without too much fuss.

One of them was Juggernaut, so yeah! Without that Kitty yellow (and hopefully some progress towards another from shards) my PvE experience could have done with some juice. I managed to get him done though and with a 0/5/4 Kitty, adding some yellow means I can then boost her up some more and make PvE even less of a chore. I might even grow to like her...

I would also then like to champ my Worthy Cap.

I do get what you are saying though as yes, 4* boosted normally have value.

Thanks for the good wishes otherwise though.

bluewolf

Emma is one of the worst 4's.....Devs probably picked her as a feeder to boost her value to players.  I guess she has some fans but most players I know put her in the bottom 3 or so in the tier.

There are probably a lot of players who haven't rostered Emma, let alone champed her.  They could have made some other choices that made more sense canon-wise too, since Emma and Kitty hate each other.

Ex:  Make XFDP feed Archie (same team, X-Force) or Teen Jean feed Archie (I mean, maybe she's a different Jean, but they are OG X-Men) and let Nightcrawler feed Kitty.

But Emma it is.  Gives you something to chase/do that you probably wouldn't have done otherwise.  And that's what the game's really about, giving you some goal to chase that you can make small gradual progress towards and possibly speed it up with spending.

y4747

hm. just did a rough calculation, and it looks like this change will, on average, reduce my hp income by about 20% (i might be off by 5%, but probably not more). this is mostly due to the complete 3* farm. so yes, it's hardly insignificant.

DAZ0273

OJSP said:

HoundofShadow said:

Both group total loss: 16,450 HP

Considering we get 26 new characters per year, that's quite a big loss. 

It's a massive loss - that is 16 roster slots*.

*Or at worst 8

DarthDeVo

DAZ0273 said:

OJSP said:

HoundofShadow said:

Both group total loss: 16,450 HP

Considering we get 26 new characters per year, that's quite a big loss. 

It's a massive loss - that is 16 roster slots*.

*Or at worst 8

Oh, come on, all you need to do is buy one measly ol' Stark to replace that loss. Heck, you'll even get a little extra HP. Win-Win!

(/sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell. 😋)

HoundofShadow

The loss in HP is signifant for those who can flip entire 3* farm once or twice a year. For most players, it's going to take them two to three years or even longer. 

Some are focusing on the losses but they somehow ignored or forgot about the Mighty Tokens gained. Given that 4* champ rewards give a higher value of resources, the amount of "losses" could be reduced by the faster leveling of 4*. An extra two levels per characters could be better or neutral, depending on where your four-stars are. Mighty Tokens also allow you to flip your 3* farm a little faster. 

The total HP loss is 16,450 before taking into account the pull from Mighty Tokens gained. After factoring in MT, I believe it will be much lower than this. However, factoring MTs into 3* farming is beyond my scope because I'm not going to get upset about this loss that will take ms about 1.5 to 2 years to be realised. I leave it to those who flip 3* farm at least once a year.

DAZ0273

DarthDeVo said:

DAZ0273 said:

OJSP said:

HoundofShadow said:

Both group total loss: 16,450 HP

Considering we get 26 new characters per year, that's quite a big loss. 

It's a massive loss - that is 16 roster slots*.

*Or at worst 8

Oh, come on, all you need to do is buy one measly ol' Stark to replace that loss. Heck, you'll even get a little extra HP. Win-Win!

(/sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell. 😋)

 "Sorry kids, Christmas dinner this year will consist of Hero points! Daddy got roster needs!"

DAZ0273

HoundofShadow said:

The loss in HP is signifant for those who can flip entire 3* farm once or twice a year. For most players, it's going to take them two to three years or even longer. 

Some are focusing on the losses but they somehow ignored or forgot about the Mighty Tokens gained.

I can't "flip" anything if I don't have the HP for rostering and who wants to flip all their max champed 3's any way? Those guys take a long time to get. I have learned during the past year that having a 3* dupe is a massive advantage in PvP though. What am I gonna do with the 3* tier now that all mine are max champed apart from Sentry or those I did flip but I haven't been able to roster dupes? If I can't dupe it, it is just iso and so earning shards is worth what? The loss of HP is a big deal. Taking the CP should have been counter cost enough, CP is easily earned week on week.

And Mighty Tokens = probably just a bunch more 3*. Unless they end up being for characters I already flipped or have dupes for then that is again just more iso. We are back to pre- saved covers almost. Our realistic return on MT's is not in favour of 4's.

All the while the game wants more and more of my HP elsewhere. HP is now *the* currency in this game - it can even buy you 5*.

So I guess the solution is wallet shaped. Sorry but I have spent plenty over the years on MPQ and that is no solution for me in place of the previous HP reward system.

jp1

I am happy about the retroactive rewards and the new feeders, but I have to hand it to them...making the system increasingly convoluted to the point people are confused if they are getting more or less (obviously less) is brilliant. 

They are honing the craft of wrapping up turds in fancy baskets to hand out. A single good will gesture without some drawback would go a long way at this point. I understand the point is to make money. I hope that losing sight of keeping the game fun isn’t a consequence of that though. It’s beginning to feel like a chore.

Razuhlui

So when will it going to be live? I mean *next week * on a Saturday is this week on a Monday  Make it pls fast.  It's already too much cheese to this whining. 

DAZ0273

OJSP said:

DAZ0273 said:

So I guess the solution is wallet shaped.

I suppose this depends a lot on someone's playing habit. I can't make any conclusions yet until we are actually implementing the change yet. But, it's possible that the HP loss is still manageable (it's a big loss, but maybe it wouldn't affect people as much as we think).

I certainly hope this is the case. It obviously isn't an issue with roster slots for new releases which I can cover but I have hit a bottleneck with 3* dupes that I was relying on those 3's already flipped or duplicated to "pay" for future roster slots once I finish off Sentry. With that income slashed, I guess I might be forced into other options or just having to consider selling some of the less useful max 3's to keep the champ levels flowing again. Just playing Lord of Thunder with a flipped non max Thor was putting a target on my head so it is far from ideal.

DAZ0273

Leaving aside the loss of resources conversation above, do we have any predictions on when R192 might go live? And will IceIX be able to update this thread (or another) before that happens - just because I suspect there are going to be a fair amount of questions on this, especially in terms of what is retroactively awarded.

I still remember fondly when SHIELD Clearance levels went live and I was excited to receive a few hundred thousand iso but not as excited as some players who got millions - oh the champing flowed!

ThaRoadWarrior

If the discussion were framed in the terms of "X cp and Y hp lost per CHARACTER" rather than "per <time interval>," we're back to the real crux of the matter. It's like:

player: "yo, i'm lost in this desert and I'm really thirsty" 
economy designer: "Well, let me pour some water in that canteen. but first i'll need to drill a little hole in the bottom for reasons...don't worry though, it's just a little hole. This water needs to go someplace."
player:"I mean...my mouth is right here though, it's just going to go in there?"
economy designer: "Most of the water that leaves your canteen will do it through the top, you won't miss what's dribbling out the bottom."

I'm really glad for feeders, and I'm also glad that beyond the first cover drop the covers were replaced with Shards (this will really alleviate those 5/5/0|1|2 builds that seem so close, but yet so far), but that those formerly complete covers being replaced with fractional covers split over several levels that cost otherwise meaningful rewards is exactly what I did not want to happen when shards were announced. 

I'm really hoping the champ costs get a discount on 4* and 5* characters if we're going to be getting (relative) tons of covers for them at the expense of the means to level them up moving forward.

bluewolf

Hey everyone...we need to take a breather until we see how much HP and CP they take out of event rewards to give us some shards there.....   then we know how outraged to really be.   

HoundofShadow

Yes, a loss is still a loss. It's a fact that you will lose 16,450 HP per 3* flip. Personally speaking, because it will take me about two years to realise these losses from 3* farming, I'm not bothered by it. I think, in this case, it's down to how we approach this game. I can't predict where MPQ is going 1 or 2 years later. So, my approach has always been to focus on the present and the near future (1 week at most). 

As for 3* farming, I'm not at the stage where I could flip as fast you guys. I earn about 2000HP a week, with over 210 roster slots. I'm buying packs every now and then. Yes, 26 characters will still be released every year but it's something that, given my playstyle, is something I could handle.

As for HP, it has always been the revenues for the developers. It was even publicy announced in an interview in the first year of MPQ on how they are going to monetise the game. So, I'm not surprised?

The dev mentioned all these changes or tradeoffs are made based on the resource economy as a whole. Champion rewards are a part of the whole and Shards and MTs have not been rolled out into PvPs or PvEs yet. Maybe I'm not as hardcore as some of you, that's why I take things easy.

DAZ0273

Razuhlui said:

So when will it going to be live? I mean *next week * on a Saturday is this week on a Monday  Make it pls fast.  It's already too much cheese to this whining. 

pheregas

Hey everyone.  To put it simply, I am over the moon regarding these feeder updates.  Not only are we getting most of the 5* tier filled, we are also getting increased 4* progression covers/shards.

Does it matter to me that HP/CP rewards are being shifted around.  Not one bit.  I have asked for years for what we are getting and I, for one, am just going to kick back and enjoy my rewards and look forward to playing around with all my newly champed 5s.

I realize not everyone may be in this situation, but I think we can all just be happy that we got the feeders we've all been asking about for years.

Thank you devs.  Thank you so very much.

-Pheregas

Daredevil217

jp1 said:

I am happy about the retroactive rewards and the new feeders, but I have to hand it to them...making the system increasingly convoluted to the point people are confused if they are getting more or less (obviously less) is brilliant. 

They are honing the craft of wrapping up turds in fancy baskets to hand out. A single good will gesture without some drawback would go a long way at this point. I understand the point is to make money. I hope that losing sight of keeping the game fun isn’t a consequence of that though. It’s beginning to feel like a chore.

I honestly couldn’t have said it better. Usually when everyone is praising them, I’m looking for “the catch”.  I’ve been conditioned to and the trust is pretty much gone at this point. 

In the last month the game has become more grindy, micromanage-heavy and less fun for me overall. The roster building used to be my favorite part of the game and they are killing it. My tokens just keep piling because I don’t enjoy opening them anymore. I don’t want to quit because I still enjoy the actual game (coming up with different team combos) and the community. But the developer decisions, the ways in which the changes are communicated (as big wins for the players when they are actually half steps back), and now the way ro$ter building is being implemented are huge huge negatives. 

DAZ0273

pheregas said:

Hey everyone.  To put it simply, I am over the moon regarding these feeder updates.  Not only are we getting most of the 5* tier filled, we are also getting increased 4* progression covers/shards.

Does it matter to me that HP/CP rewards are being shifted around.  Not one bit.  I have asked for years for what we are getting and I, for one, am just going to kick back and enjoy my rewards and look forward to playing around with all my newly champed 5s.

I realize not everyone may be in this situation, but I think we can all just be happy that we got the feeders we've all been asking about for years.

Thank you devs.  Thank you so very much.

-Pheregas

But...I wanted a pony.

pheregas

DAZ0273 said:

But...I wanted a pony.

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/2339762944/h5E22E513/