R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    @IceIX any particular reason Elektr4 is still being double-fed by 3lektra and Dar3devil?
  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    One thing I haven’t seen addressed in the tradeoff discussion - the higher percentage of 4* pulls we’ll be getting from the shift from Heroic to Mighty tokens. I think that’ll offset the HP/CP loss somewhat. 

    I will say, this feels like a much more accurate valuation of the colorless nature of shards than the BH -> shard tradeoff was, partly because this doesn’t involve any decision-making and unfortunate consequences from the players.
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    @IceIX any particular reason Elektr4 is still being double-fed by 3lektra and Dar3devil?

    I see X23, XFWolvie still being double-fed, too.
    Maybe others, as well.
  • Ed_Dragonrider
    Ed_Dragonrider Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    skittledaddy said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    @IceIX any particular reason Elektr4 is still being double-fed by 3lektra and Dar3devil?

    I see X23, XFWolvie still being double-fed, too.
    Maybe others, as well.
    They haven't changed any of the pairs double-feeding a 4*, there should be 5 pairs in total i think. This is so that players currently building towards those covers don't feel like the rug's been pulled from under them.
    I don't think it's a problem, and there's still some single 3*s, so there's room for more...
  • jkzl
    jkzl Posts: 89 Match Maker
    I think what gets lost here is that you're getting one of the most requested features ever (the colorless cover), so in order to balance the economics (whether we like it or not), they'll pull some stuff off the table.  

    There is definitely some loss in the CP/HP arena but I'm choosing to look at it as the "cost" of converting to a colorless cover, which, frankly, is exciting to characters like my 0/0/5 Gambit and my 8/4/1 Cable.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Godzillafan67 said:
    leoperez90 said:
    What an awesome update!! Love it!! 

    It did sting when I was reading we are losing hp,cp. Why couldnt you increase the cp and hp given at another level and still make room for shards. This would of been a simple solution and not takeaway something we already had for something new. 
    Just don see the logic in that. Am I seeing it wrong? Or not understanding it. Feel free to let me know the why or if anyone here is seeing it.
    My reactions completely -- I haven't been this excited since R191!

    In this resource-starved game, there is no reason to always implement the giveth/taketh away methodology. 
    Agree. I really don’t care about the color of covers for my 2, 3, and 4* farms. It’s all champ levels. I’d easily go back to specific covers in those tiers in order to get the bump in CP/LT/HP back personally. I know many others would as well. This is going to make keeping up with Latests even harder than before. Especially with the overall drop in covers replacing BH with shards. For me this is a HUGE net negative.  I don’t understand all the fanfare unless there is something I’m missing?

    Updating the feeders is a nice gesture (which I love), but I’m looking at that as something separate from the new rewards structure (which I hate). 

    I’ll be really interested to see how retro rewards are handed out. I’m currently trying to champ 5* Hawkeye via Kate Bishop who is at 313. I doubt I’ll get the shards from level 300 since I got a cover there and they aren’t that generous.  But what about the 100 shards from 296 and 150 shards from 298? Hopefully those will at least be given out. 

    We are supposed to get the retro-rewards post Monday.  Hopefully BEFORE the update goes live. I’d like to pull my hoard of standard/elite/heroics BEFORE we get the net loss in rewards but would like to know who to target based on shards I’ll have coming in. 
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't like the loss of CPs and HPs, BUT I didn't like shards over BHs and that led to WAY more feeders. So, if this also leads to something, I should hold off on my disappointment.

    As for more feeders... Heck to the yeah!
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    At first I was "neat".   Then I got  worried about losing HP and CP.  But then I realized that the purpose, often, of those two resources (once you have everyone rostered) is pulling covers you need.

    Shards will make it far easer to complete characters with missing covers.  I could, I guess, regret that I have 5's with saved covers instead of getting shards for them.  But you trade some CP, which you might reserve for a special store, for shards and the ability to save a cover to fill in what RNG doesn't give you, or add to build a balanced character.

    You don't need to bonus a 4 feeder from 321 to 360 because you need the 3rd color for your 5/5/2 Kitty (or whatever).  The next cover will finish them.

    I think they really did make a big impact on your ability to finish characters, which is going to help a lot of players.

    Now, that said, you'll feel some more HP pressure (but most of your HP probably doesn't come all that much from 2s and 3s anyway).  So maybe spending is a little more important.

    Also, while this helps with finishing some people, its only impact on dilution is adding 1.5 4* covers per max champed 3, as well as the insta-feeder status for almost all the 5s.  If your goal was more (free) pulls to use in beating back RNG, this change makes that a little worse.

    It also became a little harder to add more champ levels to characters (due to reduced resources to use for pulls).  And dilution still makes that harder, and the transition from BH to TH in pulls already made that  harder to do.

    Still, it will be nice to finish a few 5's off of this change.  I wonder how many people will feel like they effectively finished the game after this gets put in place, since there will be a ton of covers coming our way soon.

    We will see what rewards updates bring when those roll out.
  • Alfje17
    Alfje17 Posts: 3,816 Chairperson of the Boards
    Very good news for all the veterans here, as we're getting another windfall like the SCL introduction, however it'll widen the gap with new players even more.

    On the positive side: more feeders and ways to get specific covers are great improvements!
    On a negative note: Supports, end of BH and now less HP/CP in rewards all seem to be designed to deter new(er) players instead of helping them.
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    There are two major things happening here...people of course love getting the retro goodies and I'm not opposed of course.
    Can't say I love the new rewards structures though, and as others have suggested, and I've feared elsewhere, the key to this system is going to come from shards being in progression rewards, and the writing is on the wall that they're going to come at a cost.  If that is the case, vs them being additions, then I'll be bummed.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    Command Points are already Shards in a way. 
     
    25 CP, when taken as a draw from Latest Legends =
    85% chance of a random 4* cover
    15% chance of a random 5* cover  

    There is a Shards equivalent to this breakdown, but it's always for a known character, not random.

    Someone needs to do the comparative math, of what we actually lose in CP and HP values along the life cycle of a 4* character, and the equivalent Shards we are gaining along the same path. 
    It seems like we are generally undervaluing the added shards along Champ rewards. 

    For example, we are losing 10 CP at a specific Champ level point, but have gained Shards at other points. 

    If 25 CP is 85% of a random 4* cover generally, then 10 CP is 40% of that opportunity. 40% of a full 4* Character Shards is 100 Shards. Haven't we gained over 100 Shards to make up for this? Without randomness?

    What's the value of the fraction of the 15% LT chance of a 5* cover draw? 
    We also earn new shards toward characters of our choice from each LT draw we make. Is this not made up with the added Shards along the Champ rewards structure? Still a ways off maybe, or reasonably fair?
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Im curious to see how the retroactive rewards will work. 

    Overall not bad

    Just keep trying to fix dilution, this atleast takes a step in the right direction. 
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Holy update!
  • TPF Alexis
    TPF Alexis Posts: 3,826 Chairperson of the Boards
    This feels like a lot to pay for Colourless Covers. Especially given that Saved Covers are a thing. I'll see how it works out, but it looks like a downgrade to me except for edge cases (5/5/0 and such).

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