Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

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Comments

  • Yoik
    Yoik Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker

    I’d like to see the new system in place and get some more facts on it. Hopefully today we will be able to see the data in more detail and make better more informed comments / choices.
      On the face of it and reading some of the comments im now in two minds about my progress. I have been hoarding for some time because for me it was the best way to control my roster and make progress. It then turned into a way to leap into the 5 star realm.   I was due to pull my ledge hoard when dr oct left ( in a few days) . I will be able to cover the 3 latest and champ them with iso. Now im not so sure this is the right thing to do. From what I can gather I will be looking at 40 plus matches of dual champed 5 stars to get a 4 star cover ill likely not need. Reduced CP ( if that’s what will happen to the 15 ) would mean further champ levels will be slower in coming.   It might be better to not pull now and just keep going. Or pull and not champ them. Stick with 4 stars. I may of got the wrong end of the stick here but progressing to 5 star land doesn’t seem to be a positive move. @Brigby You probably have a million and one messages flagging your name at the moment. I know my issue is a small one and a 1st world problem. But I wouldn’t think that this is the developers intended consequence of these PVP moves. There has to be progress right? Moving forward?   Now I know this sounds like ( oh woe is me….. ive got hundreds of pulls whatever will I do….small violin etc etc ) but after playing for almost 4 years I got to this position from putting the time in. I am a vet who has worked his way to this point, but to progress further seems like making it less of an actual game and more of a chore.

  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yoik said:

    I’d like to see the new system in place and get some more facts on it. Hopefully today we will be able to see the data in more detail and make better more informed comments / choices.
      On the face of it and reading some of the comments im now in two minds about my progress. I have been hoarding for some time because for me it was the best way to control my roster and make progress. It then turned into a way to leap into the 5 star realm.   I was due to pull my ledge hoard when dr oct left ( in a few days) . I will be able to cover the 3 latest and champ them with iso. Now im not so sure this is the right thing to do. From what I can gather I will be looking at 40 plus matches of dual champed 5 stars to get a 4 star cover ill likely not need. Reduced CP ( if that’s what will happen to the 15 ) would mean further champ levels will be slower in coming.   It might be better to not pull now and just keep going. Or pull and not champ them. Stick with 4 stars. I may of got the wrong end of the stick here but progressing to 5 star land doesn’t seem to be a positive move. @Brigby You probably have a million and one messages flagging your name at the moment. I know my issue is a small one and a 1st world problem. But I wouldn’t think that this is the developers intended consequence of these PVP moves. There has to be progress right? Moving forward?   Now I know this sounds like ( oh woe is me….. ive got hundreds of pulls whatever will I do….small violin etc etc ) but after playing for almost 4 years I got to this position from putting the time in. I am a vet who has worked his way to this point, but to progress further seems like making it less of an actual game and more of a chore.


    There's certainly no harm in waiting a few more weeks to open the hoard and see what the next fivestar looks like Before you make up your mind, at least.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked said:
    smkspy said:
    The irony is that the new scl scaling for pve players was loved by highend vet 5 rosters and a blow to 4 star and under rosters. We were told "well, it's not fair for 5 star players before, and they made it right for us despite it being an inconvenience or detriment to you guys." That system wasn't perfect and still isn't.

    Now the shoe is on the other foot, the guys that complained about the complainers are now the complainers. It's not a perfect system, but as we were told, this evens out the playing field a bit. Not a perfect solution just like pve, but thems the breaks too.
    You're argument is flawed.

    Old pve scaling punished you for leveling and developing your roster. Would make players intentionally not level (softcap). New scaling encourages advancing a roster which allows faster clears not longer.

    Old PvP rewarded you for developing your roster by making higher progression rewards more attainable. New PvP punishes you for developing your roster by making you do 40 matches for less rewards. Developed rosters could hit 900 or 1200 in half the matches. New PvP encourages you to not level your characters or you'll face 40 matches of dual champed 5*s.

    So yea it flipped but badly.
    My argument had nothing to do with roster development. Merely that it was the 5 star end players that cheered the new scl scaling, while everyone lower knew that those cheering now could dominate with those low rosters in any all they choose to play.

    We're just flipped now. The people that couldn't compete in PvP cause they were always getting knocked to the point of not playing PvP have incentive to rejoin and high end rosters that have always the advantage in PvP have lost something, the end cp.

    The changes are what they are, and every one of us will have "but but what about me" attitudes to every single change. It's too early to talk about all this nonsense.
  • Yoik
    Yoik Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
    Quebbster said:
    Yoik said:

    I’d like to see the new system in place and get some more facts on it. Hopefully today we will be able to see the data in more detail and make better more informed comments / choices.
      On the face of it and reading some of the comments im now in two minds about my progress. I have been hoarding for some time because for me it was the best way to control my roster and make progress. It then turned into a way to leap into the 5 star realm.   I was due to pull my ledge hoard when dr oct left ( in a few days) . I will be able to cover the 3 latest and champ them with iso. Now im not so sure this is the right thing to do. From what I can gather I will be looking at 40 plus matches of dual champed 5 stars to get a 4 star cover ill likely not need. Reduced CP ( if that’s what will happen to the 15 ) would mean further champ levels will be slower in coming.   It might be better to not pull now and just keep going. Or pull and not champ them. Stick with 4 stars. I may of got the wrong end of the stick here but progressing to 5 star land doesn’t seem to be a positive move. @Brigby You probably have a million and one messages flagging your name at the moment. I know my issue is a small one and a 1st world problem. But I wouldn’t think that this is the developers intended consequence of these PVP moves. There has to be progress right? Moving forward?   Now I know this sounds like ( oh woe is me….. ive got hundreds of pulls whatever will I do….small violin etc etc ) but after playing for almost 4 years I got to this position from putting the time in. I am a vet who has worked his way to this point, but to progress further seems like making it less of an actual game and more of a chore.


    There's certainly no harm in waiting a few more weeks to open the hoard and see what the next fivestar looks like Before you make up your mind, at least.

    Ive got the next 5 star covered with CP. I guess its more the act of actually levelling them up. Seems like it would be a negative step to take in terms of game play and progression
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Some food for thought:

    I expected that this would be met with mixed reactions. After the initial tests, someone on here did a poll and there was a pretty big split amongst the player base as to whether or not the wins-based change was preferred over points-based progression.  The results:

    58% YES (156 votes)
    41% NO (109 votes)

    Now I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say regardless of where your roster is at, if you are on these message boards posting about a match-3 game in your spare time you more than likely (though not necessarily) fall more in the “die hard” category than the “casual” category.

    Though right now it could look to developers like the MPQ sky is falling, it is simply because the people unhappy with the change are of course going to be more vocal than those that are neutral or even happy about the change.

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/66512/do-you-like-the-new-pvp-system-progression-rewards-based-on-wins-instead-of-points-gained/p1

    The poll shows that even amongst the more die hard players (forum goers) this change is preferred to the old system. This does not take into account the much larger, and likely more casual, player base not represented on the message boards.

    The newer your roster the more this change benefits you as you can reach more rewards much faster that were previously unobtainable. I have about 58% of the 4* Champed so could get 900 pretty regularly. So for me this move is neutral in terms of rewards, a negative in terms of the amount of matches needed to max progress and a positive in terms of flexibility.  Anyone with a roster better than mine likely hates this and those below me likely love it.  I believe there are way more people that stand to benefit from this change and that will applaud it (especially off the boards) despite the vitriol on the boards currently.   Because people on the boards are so split on this I fully expect many more pages of the same arguments restated again and again. Expect a jumpstart tomorrow when we see the reward layout.



    As I posted in another thread, what you are missing is their is a lot of the people I play with, 60% or so, that don't come to the forums anymore.  They are no use to them.  So all of these polls are useless because it misses a major part of the hardcore pvp people.  I would even say if you look at the top 25 allys for the season, maybe 15% of them even come here anymore.  There is more information on Line and Discord then here. 
  • SirLanik
    SirLanik Posts: 345 Mover and Shaker
    I see many are upset about win based change, but it's a positive change for me- at every level it took me MORE wins under the old system to get to that point. I would usually get past 300 points, stare at my matches worth 11 points I could win, and the matches worth 26 points that I can't win, and just give up. 
    Now I can actually make meaningful progress in PVP progression without spending a million hours.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    The rockett said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Some food for thought:

    I expected that this would be met with mixed reactions. After the initial tests, someone on here did a poll and there was a pretty big split amongst the player base as to whether or not the wins-based change was preferred over points-based progression.  The results:

    58% YES (156 votes)
    41% NO (109 votes)

    Now I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say regardless of where your roster is at, if you are on these message boards posting about a match-3 game in your spare time you more than likely (though not necessarily) fall more in the “die hard” category than the “casual” category.

    Though right now it could look to developers like the MPQ sky is falling, it is simply because the people unhappy with the change are of course going to be more vocal than those that are neutral or even happy about the change.

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/66512/do-you-like-the-new-pvp-system-progression-rewards-based-on-wins-instead-of-points-gained/p1

    The poll shows that even amongst the more die hard players (forum goers) this change is preferred to the old system. This does not take into account the much larger, and likely more casual, player base not represented on the message boards.

    The newer your roster the more this change benefits you as you can reach more rewards much faster that were previously unobtainable. I have about 58% of the 4* Champed so could get 900 pretty regularly. So for me this move is neutral in terms of rewards, a negative in terms of the amount of matches needed to max progress and a positive in terms of flexibility.  Anyone with a roster better than mine likely hates this and those below me likely love it.  I believe there are way more people that stand to benefit from this change and that will applaud it (especially off the boards) despite the vitriol on the boards currently.   Because people on the boards are so split on this I fully expect many more pages of the same arguments restated again and again. Expect a jumpstart tomorrow when we see the reward layout.



    As I posted in another thread, what you are missing is their is a lot of the people I play with, 60% or so, that don't come to the forums anymore.  They are no use to them.  So all of these polls are useless because it misses a major part of the hardcore pvp people.  I would even say if you look at the top 25 allys for the season, maybe 15% of them even come here anymore.  There is more information on Line and Discord then here. 
    Of those 15%, half of us are only here to watch the next dumpster fire after Demiurge announces changes.

    You are absolutely correct my friend. 
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm beginning to think the devs make these changes just to watch us fight.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Some food for thought:

    I expected that this would be met with mixed reactions. After the initial tests, someone on here did a poll and there was a pretty big split amongst the player base as to whether or not the wins-based change was preferred over points-based progression.  The results:

    58% YES (156 votes)
    41% NO (109 votes)

    Now I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say regardless of where your roster is at, if you are on these message boards posting about a match-3 game in your spare time you more than likely (though not necessarily) fall more in the “die hard” category than the “casual” category.

    Though right now it could look to developers like the MPQ sky is falling, it is simply because the people unhappy with the change are of course going to be more vocal than those that are neutral or even happy about the change.

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/66512/do-you-like-the-new-pvp-system-progression-rewards-based-on-wins-instead-of-points-gained/p1

    The poll shows that even amongst the more die hard players (forum goers) this change is preferred to the old system. This does not take into account the much larger, and likely more casual, player base not represented on the message boards.

    The newer your roster the more this change benefits you as you can reach more rewards much faster that were previously unobtainable. I have about 58% of the 4* Champed so could get 900 pretty regularly. So for me this move is neutral in terms of rewards, a negative in terms of the amount of matches needed to max progress and a positive in terms of flexibility.  Anyone with a roster better than mine likely hates this and those below me likely love it.  I believe there are way more people that stand to benefit from this change and that will applaud it (especially off the boards) despite the vitriol on the boards currently.   Because people on the boards are so split on this I fully expect many more pages of the same arguments restated again and again. Expect a jumpstart tomorrow when we see the reward layout.



    As I posted in another thread, what you are missing is their is a lot of the people I play with, 60% or so, that don't come to the forums anymore.  They are no use to them.  So all of these polls are useless because it misses a major part of the hardcore pvp people.  I would even say if you look at the top 25 allys for the season, maybe 15% of them even come here anymore.  There is more information on Line and Discord then here. 
    No I understand that the forums are a very small yet vocal part of the player base. For every friend you have on Line and Discord, I’m almost certain there are many many more casual people who don’t coordinate with other players using those other methods, go to shield check rooms (or whatever they’re called), and just play the game as a game and not a second job.  It’s those casuals, the lower end rosters and even the future player that has yet to have even picked up this game yet that this change most helps. 

    But hopefully the developers are aware of this (and I think they are).  I’m guessing PVP frustrations and difficulties transitioning were oft-cited reasons many players gave as to why they would not recommend to a friend. Our polls our silly, speaking on behalf of our “hundreds of friends who no one can see but I assure you are all outraged about this and are going to quit is silly”.  You’re right. We don’t have the polls/data that D3 does and I trust they are making changes with their own more informed data in mind. 

    I will back anyone saying put CP back in progression. My guess is that under the old system more people would get CP at T10 then at 1200.  However, WAY more people would get it (just like every other reward) under the new system if it were put back in progression. My conspiracy theory (and I’m owning it as such) says this is the real reason they moved it. They simply don’t want to give that much CP away. I think the ending of vaulting plus this may be their way of slowing down top-end transitioning. Which I personally am okay with. The game has always been a marathon to me anyway. 
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked said:
    smkspy said:
    The irony is that the new scl scaling for pve players was loved by highend vet 5 rosters and a blow to 4 star and under rosters. We were told "well, it's not fair for 5 star players before, and they made it right for us despite it being an inconvenience or detriment to you guys." That system wasn't perfect and still isn't.

    Now the shoe is on the other foot, the guys that complained about the complainers are now the complainers. It's not a perfect system, but as we were told, this evens out the playing field a bit. Not a perfect solution just like pve, but thems the breaks too.
    You're argument is flawed.

    Old pve scaling punished you for leveling and developing your roster. Would make players intentionally not level (softcap). New scaling encourages advancing a roster which allows faster clears not longer.

    Old PvP rewarded you for developing your roster by making higher progression rewards more attainable. New PvP punishes you for developing your roster by making you do 40 matches for less rewards. Developed rosters could hit 900 or 1200 in half the matches. New PvP encourages you to not level your characters or you'll face 40 matches of dual champed 5*s.

    So yea it flipped but badly.
    The badly is subjective.  It depends on if you prefer PvE or PvP.  But yeah it definitely flipped in both.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Orion said:
    And this move takes the 15 CP reward away from players like me and gives it to T10 finishers in CL6 and CL7.  Why would the devs do that?  CL6 players need 3* and 4* covers, not CP. 
    It's even more absurd than that.
    The tests had the CP all the way down to CL5.

    So you'll see champed 5s going all the way down to 5 to get their placement CP.
  • Philly484
    Philly484 Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    Well the reasoning of more players being able to obtain top 10 is completely inaccurate. They are punishing the Veteran players who have took time to develop their roster. Players shouldn't feel like they are being punished, and that is clearly how more of the majority feels. I understand new players are excited about the change it helps develop the roster faster, but then the "Brick Wall" will hit the new players faster, and they will either quit playing because they don't want to spend money, or they will stick with it and spend money. I have a feeling the higher percentage will be new players dropping off.

    The purpose serves new players in roster development, but hurts developed rosters, and from comments from new players they are only looking at the quick 4* cover versus long-term effects of the change. Which will result in not having applicable CP once they want to try to move into 5* territory. Also to the players who want to bad mouth those of us who spend money on the game, that isn't a fair statement(s). If that is what makes the game enjoyable for us, then that is what makes the game enjoyable for us. This move isn't justifiable in regards to veterans, and in my opinion even new players, because all you are looking at is getting a quick 4* cover.
  • twistmonkey
    twistmonkey Posts: 79 Match Maker

    Regarding the PVP changes - there are two separate changes here:

    1) Making the 4* attainable with 40 wins - even though I can hit 900 in way under 40 matches, I'm not too bothered by this - this change helps lower level rosters get the covers they need without the inherent frustration of getting from 800 to 900. We've all been there and I totally understand that this is the dev's way of countering this. Fine. No problem. I play at 4* level, but I can understand that this is more painful for 5* players.

    2) Moving CP to placement. No logic to this at all, other than decreasing CP acquisition rate for advanced rosters, simple as that. Make the 15cp 50 wins and be done with it. Problem solved.

    Or, you know, open CL9. Just saying...

  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
    Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. 

    Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. 

    This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster,  and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. 

    At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. 

    As for dev response, lack of details etc. 

    Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. 


  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Even if the more people getting CP in T5 is true (which could be true, it's hard to say for certain without all the data), it will be more difficult to get it with consistency, which is the benefit of progression vs placement.  Having it in placement is going to encourage lead to 5* players jumping to various different SCLs looking for as close to guaranteed as possible.  It will also likely increase sniping, which has been a problem that sorely needs to be addressed for a long time...
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
    Sniping is intended
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017

    corytutor said:
    Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. 

    Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. 

    This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster,  and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. 

    At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. 

    As for dev response, lack of details etc. 

    Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. 


    I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. 

    But the last parahraph is wrong.  You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).

    Also, ha!  not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor.  Eyesnipe?!!!  your posts make much more sense now.

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