But it's not slowing everyone down. 2% of players will still get their "full" cp allotment. So this change will arguably further stratify the playerbase.
Daredevil217 said: Philly484 said: Well the reasoning of more players being able to obtain top 10 is completely inaccurate. They are punishing the Veteran players who have took time to develop their roster. Players shouldn't feel like they are being punished, and that is clearly how more of the majority feels. I understand new players are excited about the change it helps develop the roster faster, but then the "Brick Wall" will hit the new players faster, and they will either quit playing because they don't want to spend money, or they will stick with it and spend money. I have a feeling the higher percentage will be new players dropping off.The purpose serves new players in roster development, but hurts developed rosters, and from comments from new players they are only looking at the quick 4* cover versus long-term effects of the change. Which will result in not having applicable CP once they want to try to move into 5* territory. Also to the players who want to bad mouth those of us who spend money on the game, that isn't a fair statement(s). If that is what makes the game enjoyable for us, then that is what makes the game enjoyable for us. This move isn't justifiable in regards to veterans, and in my opinion even new players, because all you are looking at is getting a quick 4* cover. It’s 6 one way, half a dozen the other. If forced to choose between the two alternatives (and that right there is a problem in and of itself because there are an infinite number of other options they could have went with, but IF...), then people can havea very slow beginning transition and a slightly faster (but still slow) end game transition (old system).Or a much quicker beginning transition and an even slower end game transition (current system).[Not to mention all the CP a player is missing out on on the back end, they will get loads on the front end being able to climb to 575 earlier in their roster development, plus will get the occasional T10 while not likely ever getting to 1200 points early on. So they will have way more CP when they are ready to make the leap to 4/5 land.]I'm not a developer. But as a psychologist I’d say the former is more important to the developers. Hooking people early, getting them resourced and invested is far more important than speeding up the end game for many reasons.The biggest from a psychology perspective is once they have you hooked/addicted it is much harder to leave if you are unhappy later. Look at any theory on dysfunctional relationships, sunk cost fallacy, cognitive dissonance theory and you can understand that people will put up with a lot once they feel they are invested. We grip and complain but will still grind it out for Nightcrawler tomorrow. Much easier for a new player to get curbstomped over and over in PVP, see that they have to roster, collect, and level 100's of characters in order to transition to the end game, and say "what's the point?".The second is purely speculation on my part, but 1) vaulting decisions 2) removing CP from progression 3) putting off CL126 for as long as possible, all tell me that perhaps it's intentional that they are trying to speed up the early game and slow down the late game which makes PERFECT sense. You need to get people transitioning faster or else the light at the end of the tunnel isn't visible and people quit. But if people at the top transition too fast then they either quit when they reach the ceiling and have no where to go (boredom), or we need to open up the 6* tier, which I really don't want. Maybe, just maybe... the developers aren't incompetent fools, but are willing to break a couple eggs in order for the game to have longevity. They also view the game on a larger scale than "how is my individual roster development impacted".Finally, I would like to say that by removing the 15 CP they are essentially slowing down everyone's progress, so it is not like other stuff they have done intentionally (A/B testing comes to mind) or unintentionally (bonus draw rates glitch that many missed out on) where you suffer and someone else gains. Obviously the people who were hitting 1200 suffer the most, but theoretically, this CP is being taken from EVERYONE. So if the end game transition slows down, at least it slows down for everyone and it's not like your neighbors are now transitioning faster than you. Just younger rosters get to catch up faster which is GOOD for the health of the game.Again, psychologically speaking it's easier for us to stomach stuff that impacts us negatively if we can just paint ourselves as victims and vilify others, but reality is much more complex. Something to consider.
Philly484 said: Well the reasoning of more players being able to obtain top 10 is completely inaccurate. They are punishing the Veteran players who have took time to develop their roster. Players shouldn't feel like they are being punished, and that is clearly how more of the majority feels. I understand new players are excited about the change it helps develop the roster faster, but then the "Brick Wall" will hit the new players faster, and they will either quit playing because they don't want to spend money, or they will stick with it and spend money. I have a feeling the higher percentage will be new players dropping off.The purpose serves new players in roster development, but hurts developed rosters, and from comments from new players they are only looking at the quick 4* cover versus long-term effects of the change. Which will result in not having applicable CP once they want to try to move into 5* territory. Also to the players who want to bad mouth those of us who spend money on the game, that isn't a fair statement(s). If that is what makes the game enjoyable for us, then that is what makes the game enjoyable for us. This move isn't justifiable in regards to veterans, and in my opinion even new players, because all you are looking at is getting a quick 4* cover.
Vhailorx said: But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now.
Vhailorx said: Finally, I would like to say that by removing the 15 CP they are essentially slowing down everyone's progress, so it is not like other stuff they have done intentionally (A/B testing comes to mind) or unintentionally (bonus draw rates glitch that many missed out on) where you suffer and someone else gains. Obviously the people who were hitting 1200 suffer the most, but theoretically, this CP is being taken from EVERYONE. So if the end game transition slows down, at least it slows down for everyone and it's not like your neighbors are now transitioning faster than you. Just younger rosters get to catch up faster which is GOOD for the health of the game.But it's not slowing everyone down. 2% of players will still get their "full" cp allotment. So this change will arguably further stratify the playerbase.
corytutor said: Vhailorx said: But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now. Why not? I know its not the same group of people but one group does employ the other. In my business, if i hire people and they bungle the job, im responsible for that. Why should they be any different. And yes, I'm EyeSnipe.
Vhailorx said: corytutor said: Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster, and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. As for dev response, lack of details etc. Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now.
corytutor said: Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster, and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. As for dev response, lack of details etc. Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket.
Bubez said: Great analysis. Being a cognitive psychologist myself, I 100% agree with your post, well done!
Milk Jugz said: I see you.....
Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said: corytutor said: Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster, and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. As for dev response, lack of details etc. Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now. Really? You agree that those of us in this thread who can understand the reasoning are either liars, stupid or both?
Daredevil217 said: Bubez said: Great analysis. Being a cognitive psychologist myself, I 100% agree with your post, well done! Thanks! Mostly a Person-Centered therapist here (work in a University Counseling Center) but still have to know all of that Cognitive/Behavioral stuff for licensing purposes and it does come in handy with clients as well.I'd be shocked if a game this successful didn't have psychologists in their employ helping guide decisions.They use continuous reinforcement (every time I play, I get rewarded) which is the strongest for developing a conditioned response early on when learning a new behavior.They also combine that with partial reinforcement on a variable ratio schedule (the "rush" you get pulling that slot machine, or in this case, opening tokens). This is the schedule of reinforcement that most strongly maintains a desired behavior (how gambling addictions are formed) and is hardest to break.So in short, they know how to hook you, AND keep you. That's not by accident.
Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said: corytutor said: Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster, and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. As for dev response, lack of details etc. Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now. Really? You agree that those of us in this thread who can understand the reasoning are either liars, stupid or both? It's not the tone I would use, but yeah: It is foolish to take demi/d3 at face value when the say that moving CP from progression to placement was done for the purpose of making CP more available. And mostly I was agreeing with cory (and actually also with you and daredevil) that it seems quite likely that demi's intent with this change is speed up the 4* transition for middle class players (most casuals won't see much benefit from this change because they won't play 40 matches per event). But I honestly have little sympathy for demi trying to deal with the problems created by the fragmentation of the playerbase. I can dredge up posts from myself and other players in mid 2015 warning that demi's chosen method of switching to a 4* endgame and then introducing 5*s was inevitably going to fragment the playerbase and cause all sorts of secondary problems. I feel perfectly justified in being upset that Demi ignored the problem for years and may now be trying to solve the problem by punishing 5* transitioners like me.
The rockett said: Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said: corytutor said: Ummm. Forum polls are dumb. We dont represent the playerbase. We don't even represent the majority of vets. Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. This isnt to help anyone. Its a ploy to push midrange players up by flooding them with covers that cost hp to roster and to get players closer to 5* land because the majority of purchases are made at the beginning to get a jump on their roster, and once 5* land is in sight. In between that not much spending happens. At least that was my and most of my alliances experiences. Buy slots early. Buy cp these days. As for dev response, lack of details etc. Are you really that surprised? This is the same group that dropped a brand new event that almost instantly failed, and they tpok the weekend, entire event, off. Its also the same guys that deny swaps, give cut and paste answers and rarely read your ticket. I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. But the last parahraph is wrong. You can't conflate demi (the people that designed boss rush so badly and then threw up their hands and said "eh, we'll get it next time" when the problems became super obvious) with d3 (the people who run these forums and administer CS tickets).Also, ha! not on mobile at the moment and just saw your sig corytutor. Eyesnipe?!!! your posts make much more sense now. Really? You agree that those of us in this thread who can understand the reasoning are either liars, stupid or both? It's not the tone I would use, but yeah: It is foolish to take demi/d3 at face value when the say that moving CP from progression to placement was done for the purpose of making CP more available. And mostly I was agreeing with cory (and actually also with you and daredevil) that it seems quite likely that demi's intent with this change is speed up the 4* transition for middle class players (most casuals won't see much benefit from this change because they won't play 40 matches per event). But I honestly have little sympathy for demi trying to deal with the problems created by the fragmentation of the playerbase. I can dredge up posts from myself and other players in mid 2015 warning that demi's chosen method of switching to a 4* endgame and then introducing 5*s was inevitably going to fragment the playerbase and cause all sorts of secondary problems. I feel perfectly justified in being upset that Demi ignored the problem for years and may now be trying to solve the problem by punishing 5* transitioners like me. Here is the rub, they don't want the vets anymore. They want new players and new money. That's what's more important. Well at least that's what it feels like.
Brigby said: ronin-san said: -snipped for clarity-Orion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing? I don't know the exact reasoning, but I'll inquire with the developers, and provide info once I hear back from them. So without concrete information as to the why, you walked into an already quarreling senate, donned your gas mask, pulled the pin, and said, "We'll have a chat on the morrow, lads".My kids get upset when I tell them to do something they don't like, and don't first get an explanation as to why.Exactly what was the outcome you expected, when you dropped in to sprinkle in dissent, and dashed out?This is freaking childish, Brigs. Shame on you, and shame on your manager, who advised you to do this. Incomplete information caused a craptonne of dissent. No matter what side of the fence you're on regarding this change, the way this was handled was tactless. Enjoy your "How are we doing" Surveymonkey comments. I'm afraid my original comment may have appeared a bit disengenuous. The original reason for this implementation was because the developers determined there would actually be more players that achieved the CP reward if put in placement, than if they tried to acquire it in progression.The reason I said that I didn't know the exact reasoning in the above comment, was more so that I wanted to reaffirm with the developers if this was still the case, after reviewing the results of the test. I apologize for the confusion.
ronin-san said: -snipped for clarity-Orion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing? I don't know the exact reasoning, but I'll inquire with the developers, and provide info once I hear back from them. So without concrete information as to the why, you walked into an already quarreling senate, donned your gas mask, pulled the pin, and said, "We'll have a chat on the morrow, lads".My kids get upset when I tell them to do something they don't like, and don't first get an explanation as to why.Exactly what was the outcome you expected, when you dropped in to sprinkle in dissent, and dashed out?This is freaking childish, Brigs. Shame on you, and shame on your manager, who advised you to do this. Incomplete information caused a craptonne of dissent. No matter what side of the fence you're on regarding this change, the way this was handled was tactless. Enjoy your "How are we doing" Surveymonkey comments.
-snipped for clarity-Orion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing? I don't know the exact reasoning, but I'll inquire with the developers, and provide info once I hear back from them.
Orion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing?