Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

TrixieTime

Vhailorx said:

astrp3 said:

Just got my season 10-pack - something I wouldn't normally do until around Thursday or Friday. It helped that I was laid up in bed with a bad back, so I played more than I normally would have, but I don't think that would have happened under the old system. Not saying that's a point in favor of the new system (I would have got it anyway) and still undecided on the new system, but it was nice. And it was a nice 10-pack - five 3*s and a yellow Mr. Fantastic (the one color I don't have).

Phew!  So glad 5* transitioners get less cp now so that you can get that 10 pack 3 or 4 days early.  Great tradeoff!
/sarcasm

Bad for you does not equal bad for everybody. 

ArsAryc

reapermort said:

It's not about getting T10 for me. It's about getting pushed out of top 50 and even top 100, now. Clearance level pushed me down a bracket level, required 5stars are pushing me out of the top fifty or 100. This is just one more case of the haves pushing down on the have-not. PVP was already bad enough with the out of game communication requirements, baking and grilling etc.

The "haves" would have been happier to keep the old pvp system and not "push down" on the "have not."  If you want to qq people, I don't think the "haves" are the proper target for your ire, and you should maybe aim it at Demiurge for being shortsighted in the ripple down effect.  Better yet, this is what demiurge wants and everything is working as intended.

corytutor

Hes right. Many vets, myself included, were happy to 1200 cp and done, leaving placement for others while minimizing hp and time investements. 

reapermort

ArsAryc said:

reapermort said:

It's not about getting T10 for me. It's about getting pushed out of top 50 and even top 100, now. Clearance level pushed me down a bracket level, required 5stars are pushing me out of the top fifty or 100. This is just one more case of the haves pushing down on the have-not. PVP was already bad enough with the out of game communication requirements, baking and grilling etc.

The "haves" would have been happier to keep the old pvp system and not "push down" on the "have not."  If you want to qq people, I don't think the "haves" are the proper target for your ire, and you should maybe aim it at Demiurge for being shortsighted in the ripple down effect.  Better yet, this is what demiurge wants and everything is working as intended.

I am not blaming the players. ( well maybe a little), it's just another example of either the devs slamming the little guys or even worse them being clueless about how the game is actually played or what the consequences of their changes would be.

astrp3

Vhailorx said:

astrp3 said:

Just got my season 10-pack - something I wouldn't normally do until around Thursday or Friday. It helped that I was laid up in bed with a bad back, so I played more than I normally would have, but I don't think that would have happened under the old system. Not saying that's a point in favor of the new system (I would have got it anyway) and still undecided on the new system, but it was nice. And it was a nice 10-pack - five 3*s and a yellow Mr. Fantastic (the one color I don't have).

Phew!  So glad 5* transitioners get less cp now so that you can get that 10 pack 3 or 4 days early.  Great tradeoff!
/sarcasm

I never said that this benefit meant that the change was a good one. I was just very surprised to get my 10-pack that early and it was nice to get it out of the way. Overall, I'm still against moving the CP, even if it is the reason I am getting such easy matchups (I'm not sure that IS the reason, but it very well might be).

Though the change has benefitted me so far, it's still too early to tell. And I had plans to one day move into 5* land, where the removal of the CP would be quite a detriment to my progress (since it seems that CP would be the most valuable resource by far) and win-based PvP could impact my QOL.

OTOH, some of what I've heard about 5* play and the fact that 5*s often seem to be treated like red-headed step children has made me question whether I ever want to go there (though it seems kind of silly not to).

astrp3

reapermort said:

ArsAryc said:

reapermort said:

It's not about getting T10 for me. It's about getting pushed out of top 50 and even top 100, now. Clearance level pushed me down a bracket level, required 5stars are pushing me out of the top fifty or 100. This is just one more case of the haves pushing down on the have-not. PVP was already bad enough with the out of game communication requirements, baking and grilling etc.

The "haves" would have been happier to keep the old pvp system and not "push down" on the "have not."  If you want to qq people, I don't think the "haves" are the proper target for your ire, and you should maybe aim it at Demiurge for being shortsighted in the ripple down effect.  Better yet, this is what demiurge wants and everything is working as intended.

I am not blaming the players. ( well maybe a little), it's just another example of either the devs slamming the little guys or even worse them being clueless about how the game is actually played or what the consequences of their changes would be.

I wonder if was more the second than the first and that they devs thought this was going to help the little guy. I know they are aware of the "rich get richer" complaints and they might have figured "hey, if we move the CP to placement and add it to CLR 5 and CLR 6, then more "little guys" will get it." - not realizing that it would just make the big guys play in 5 and 6 and crowd out the little guys.

Of course, if that were the case, why didn't they just add a 15 CP progression reward to 5 and 6 (or was it already there??). So it might have been "The big guys are getting too much CP and not spending any money, so let's make it so fewer people in 7 and 8 get it and more more people in 5 and 6 get it" - again not realizing that wasn't going to be the actual result. 

Then again, all of this is pure off-the-cuff speculation on my part based on little real knowledge of the dev's reasoning, so it might just be pure hooey.  

Milk Jugz

astrp3 said:

reapermort said:

ArsAryc said:

reapermort said:

It's not about getting T10 for me. It's about getting pushed out of top 50 and even top 100, now. Clearance level pushed me down a bracket level, required 5stars are pushing me out of the top fifty or 100. This is just one more case of the haves pushing down on the have-not. PVP was already bad enough with the out of game communication requirements, baking and grilling etc.

The "haves" would have been happier to keep the old pvp system and not "push down" on the "have not."  If you want to qq people, I don't think the "haves" are the proper target for your ire, and you should maybe aim it at Demiurge for being shortsighted in the ripple down effect.  Better yet, this is what demiurge wants and everything is working as intended.

I am not blaming the players. ( well maybe a little), it's just another example of either the devs slamming the little guys or even worse them being clueless about how the game is actually played or what the consequences of their changes would be.

I wonder if was more the second than the first and that they devs thought this was going to help the little guy. I know they are aware of the "rich get richer" complaints and they might have figured "hey, if we move the CP to placement and add it to CLR 5 and CLR 6, then more "little guys" will get it." - not realizing that it would just make the big guys play in 5 and 6 and crowd out the little guys.

Of course, if that were the case, why didn't they just add a 15 CP progression reward to 5 and 6 (or was it already there??). So it might have been "The big guys are getting too much CP and not spending any money, so let's make it so fewer people in 7 and 8 get it and more more people in 5 and 6 get it" - again not realizing that wasn't going to be the actual result. 

Then again, all of this is pure off-the-cuff speculation on my part based on little real knowledge of the dev's reasoning, so it might just be pure hooey.  

I'm not arguing with you, you very well could be right. We really have no way of knowing what the devs thought. However, if the devs didn't think this would push bigger rosters down into the lower CL then they really have no clue about the game they are developing. And that's an extremely scary prospect.......

NotBAMF

Rick OShay said:

NotBAMF said:

Wins-based PVP has been even better for me than I initially expected. I got the Mr. Fantastic cover from Category-5 without ever crossing 700 points total. And I'm just blowing through rewards on the Shield Simulator and the Time Gem Season main progression. I'm going to end up getting a LOT more rewards under this system than I used to be able to.

Kudos to the new system. 

This is good to hear from a fellow player, well done!

However now, to give appropriate feedback - just in case the devs actually read this - PLEASE state your roster status, comparisons to your previous play/expectations, etc.

Sure, that makes sense.

I'm in the 3-to-4 transition with nine current 4* champions. I usually play SCL7. Historically, I have only ever gotten the 4* cover reward (now 40 wins, previously 900 points) one time (though it was recently... during the anniversary when Devil Dino was the reward. I forget which event that was), and I'm already 1-0 under the new system at getting that reward. And that's not entirely for lack of trying; there have been times where I have really wanted the 900 points cover reward and been incapable of getting it due to just getting smacked down the ladder. And I'd tried to play strategically; I would shield and play and times of day where they should be fewer people on, but I'd just get whacked for hundreds of points at a time every time except that once (again, the Devil Dino instance). 

astrp3

Milk Jugz said:

I'm not arguing with you, you very well could be right. We really have no way of knowing what the devs thought. However, if the devs didn't think this would push bigger rosters down into the lower CL then they really have no clue about the game they are developing. And that's an extremely scary prospect.......

Yeah, I hope that's not the case. You wouldn't need to know much about the game to predict that moving the CP would make high-end players play down. Though maybe they don't realize how valuable CP is to high end players. 

I am nowhere near a high-end player and I'm probably totally wrong, but I'd think that if you were a 5* transitioner, CP would the the most valuable asset by far, since your main need is covers for the handful of mega-defining 5* characters (and ISO, I suppose, but we all know how hard that is to come by),.

If that's true, there are probably steps they could take to mitigate it (like making 5*s easier to get - which ain't happenin' -, adding better 5*s, having weekly boosted 5*s etc.) but I don't see them taking them (though maybe the required 5* node and the addition of boosting the 5* indicate that they're considering doing something along these lines).

Vhailorx

TrixieTime said:

Vhailorx said:

astrp3 said:

Just got my season 10-pack - something I wouldn't normally do until around Thursday or Friday. It helped that I was laid up in bed with a bad back, so I played more than I normally would have, but I don't think that would have happened under the old system. Not saying that's a point in favor of the new system (I would have got it anyway) and still undecided on the new system, but it was nice. And it was a nice 10-pack - five 3*s and a yellow Mr. Fantastic (the one color I don't have).

Phew!  So glad 5* transitioners get less cp now so that you can get that 10 pack 3 or 4 days early.  Great tradeoff!
/sarcasm

Bad for you does not equal bad for everybody. 

Where is the benefit?  Even astrp indicates that he/she would have gotten the 10 pack in a few more days anyway. That's the perfect summary of this change.  5* transitioners are getting screwed so that 3* and 4* transitioners can get useful rewards a few days or weeks earlier than they otherwise would have.  A temporary benefit (a slightly easier time getting 3* and 4* prog covers during a some stages of development, if you are willing to grind a lot)  has been traded for permanently locking 98% of players out from that progression cp.  It's a horrible trade off for the playerbase. 

3* and 4* transitioners can eventually become 4* players and 5* transitioners.  Top 20 finishes will never become top 10 finishes.  and Top 20 finishers will have a hard time moving up to the top 10 so long as 5* whales fill those slots in all relevant CLs.

Milk Jugz

@astrp3

I'm a 4*-5* transitioner and, yes, you are correct cp is the most valued resource. Aside from LT it is the only way to get 5* covers and the only way to get them once they fall into the classic abyss. I pretty much only pull Latest anymore as the dilution is far too much in classic now. Which is a shame, if you're on pc look at my signature I have quite a few classics very close to completion.

Rick_OShay

Would they have made this change without having a solid plan for implementing PvP CL9? I know, I know, of course they would. But -

I doubt CL9 would be able to fix the CP deficit that higher rosters may now be facing, but shouldn't we at least be getting closer to the CL9 roll out? And maybe some of the changes reward part of the difference back? 

For the record, I play in a CL7 slice where 1200 has always been pretty tough to attain at all (I have 30+ 4* champs).
Quite often there are only 2-5 players who even get to 1200, so obviously they are T5.
But now with the changes, getting just T10 for the CP is actually easier than before.  Even as low as upper 900's (there's often a score-cliff between the upper 900's and 1100+)

Now recently, maintaining T5 has been harder due to large rosters dropping down to CL7. I'm at the point where the T5 cover is usually / still nearly as important as the 15 CP. 

astrp3

Vhailorx said:

Where is the benefit?  Even astrp indicates that he/she would have gotten the 10 pack in a few more days anyway. That's the perfect summary of this change. 5* transitioners are getting screwed so that 3* and 4* transitioners can get useful rewards a few days or weeks earlier than they otherwise would have.  A temporary benefit (a slightly easier time getting 3* and 4* prog covers during a some stages of development, if you are willing to grind a lot)  has been traded for permanently locking 98% of players out from that progression cp.  It's a horrible trade off for the playerbase. 

3* and 4* transitioners can eventually become 4* players and 5* transitioners.  Top 20 finishes will become top 10 finishes.

I agree that getting a 10-pack early is a pretty minor benefit, but the reason I was able to get it early is the much easier matchups I've been getting, which is a real benefit to me (though they may be temporary and I suspect they weren't the benefits the devs intended), as are things like being able to use my whole roster. Others have pointed to real benefits as well, like being able to play when they want, being able to get 4* progression covers they weren't getting before, not having to worry about losing points towards progression rewards, using fewer health packs etc. None of this is to say that the benefits are enough to outweigh the costs. 

Some of the benefits I don't understand, but if people say they're getting a benefit, I'll take them at their word. For instance, I don't get the argument about being able to play whenever you want under the new system. I was pretty much able to play PVP whenever I wanted under the old system, except when : 1) running out of health packs, 2) rising too high in the standings and not having enough high-point matchups, and 3) having to play right at the 8-hour mark so I could do my final climb and shield. 

From what I've read, it may be that I am at the level where the new system is "better" for me than the old system (at least in the short term), but not by a huge amount. For those above me, it's probably a bit worse. For those far above me, it's probably much worse. For those below me, it's probably better.

So if I were just judging based on what I've experienced so far, I would be for the change, though not by a huge amount. But I don't want to judge it just based on how it affects me today, but on the overall effects (including how it might affect me tomorrow, how it affects everyone else, how it affects D3's bottom line, etc.) - even if I lack the data to make such a judgment (like the percentage of players at each stage of the game, how much they spend on the game, what would induce them to spend, how many plan to become 5* players, what their goals are, etc.)

STERLING21JJ

We need CL9 for pvp yesterday not later since they rolled out the wins based progession already.  This is a full season of them hampering players that would usually get the 1200 cp reward and all the 4* covers. 

I can fight for top 10 and get there maybe half the time but what I'm concerned about is all my alliance members that can't get there because of roster limitations. Getting to 900 was their way of building the roster and now 40 wins is just too much for them.  It took me 21 wins to get to 900.  Personally very frustrated with the decision on rolling it out like this. 

smkspy

Member when fightmaster was harping on everyone that didn't like vaulting? We've got the opposite here. Constantly having to insert an opinion as to why someone shouldn't like the new system, whenever anyone says they like the new system in any way, is very easily inching towards that.

Still liking the change...flawed though as it is for this phase one.

<awaits someone telling me how wrong I am for liking it>

Milk Jugz

Well, in Cat-5 I was a little surprised by the diversity of teams I was seeing. It wasn't just 40 matches against Panthos, it made 40 wins tolerable, at best. Devil You Know, however, I can't find anything else... 12 wins in and EVERY DAMN QUEUE is Panthos, 3 more sitting there right now......... Not sure I have it in me, but I really, really want that NC cover. I'm having the best start to a new character ever and want to keep that going, but wow..........

NotBAMF

smkspy said:

Member when fightmaster was harping on everyone that didn't like vaulting? We've got the opposite here. Constantly having to instead an opinion as to why someone shouldn't like the new system, whenever anyone says they like the new system in any way, is very easily inching towards that.

Still liking the change...flawed though as it is for this phase one.

<awaits someone telling me how wrong I am for liking it>

Are you saying you aren’t a fan of how every day there is at least 3 to 5 whole new topics crying about it?

If I were less lazy, I would start a different “I live the new PVP!” topic every single day just to keep pace with all the negative ones.

astrp3

astrp3 said:

Milk Jugz said:

I'm not arguing with you, you very well could be right. We really have no way of knowing what the devs thought. However, if the devs didn't think this would push bigger rosters down into the lower CL then they really have no clue about the game they are developing. And that's an extremely scary prospect.......

Yeah, I hope that's not the case. You wouldn't need to know much about the game to predict that moving the CP would make high-end players play down. Though maybe they don't realize how valuable CP is to high end players. 

I should add that from what I've read from the DemiUrge people who post on Discord, they are not THAT clueless about the game.

Vhailorx

astrp3 said:

astrp3 said:

Milk Jugz said:

I'm not arguing with you, you very well could be right. We really have no way of knowing what the devs thought. However, if the devs didn't think this would push bigger rosters down into the lower CL then they really have no clue about the game they are developing. And that's an extremely scary prospect.......

Yeah, I hope that's not the case. You wouldn't need to know much about the game to predict that moving the CP would make high-end players play down. Though maybe they don't realize how valuable CP is to high end players. 

I should add that from what I've read from the DemiUrge people who post on Discord, they are not THAT clueless about the game.

Didn't the demi staff in discord need to be convinced that doc oc wasn't good?  And demi also didn't know that boss rush was insanely hard for 5* players because of theblevel 400-500 power curve.

I think it's generally a pretty safe bet that demi doesnt understand the nuances of 5* end game.  But they definitely know how much people value cp.  All they have to do is look at buy club activity.

corytutor

They have a 3* transitioner pov. Thats why they made the pvp changes. They couldnt hit 1200