Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

Spudgutter

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

corytutor

I am. Barely. But i am. 

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Participation PVP lets players hits progressions before they are ready to use them. Just what the noobs always wanted.

And if those noobs pony up for slots, just what the devs always wanted, too: new spenders!

Skipping 4*s to go straight to 5s was questionable. It was short-term gain for players that created huge iso "debts".

Imagine trying to skip 3s to go straight to 4s? That's straight up crippling. New players won't know any better.

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Milk Jugz

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said:

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Hit rank 32? I dunno. My alt is rank 45. I've played it casually for 436 days. Casual as in a couple matches a day. And I bought a few slots for it. When Ranks rolled out, it was rank 26 at day 200ish. If it was an active account it'd get there a LOT faster. Say 60-120 days?

(I would say ask Brigby but we don't know how active he plays .... if he still does.)

Unless the new player has hooked into the community and found some guidance, they are absolutely noobs. This game is opaque.

This change has wide-ranging effects. This, enabling noobs to expose themselves to more spending pressure, is one of them.

I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

Milk Jugz

Vhailorx said:

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said:

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Hit rank 32? I dunno. My alt is rank 45. I've played it casually for 436 days. Casual as in a couple matches a day. And I bought a few slots for it. When Ranks rolled out, it was rank 26 at day 200ish. If it was an active account it'd get there a LOT faster. Say 60-120 days?

(I would say ask Brigby but we don't know how active he plays .... if he still does.)

Unless the new player has hooked into the community and found some guidance, they are absolutely noobs. This game is opaque.

This change has wide-ranging effects. This, enabling noobs to expose themselves to more spending pressure, is one of them.

I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

Ok, I apologize @Vhailorx I was exaggerating my point a bit. But, still the point remains that a very low roster can grind for those covers, before they truly need them. As I pointed out in my last post, iso is the limiting factor on my roster, not covers. Missing out on those 4* covers when I had a 2* and 3* roster had no bearing on where my roster is now.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said: ... I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

I chimed in to suggest that this would enable 2* players to access more 4s before they could make much use of them. Y'know, pressure them to slot a ton of chars they won't get use of for a long time.

Maybe you should respond to whoever brought up 1*s?

Nah. Much more fun to harass you!  

Lucifier

Milk Jugz said:

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

True iso is the limiting factor (now I am hoarding the Heroic tokens because I don't have enough iso and I do not want to waste 4* covers), but I will guess that you pulled your cp or LT, that's why you ended up having covers but not having enough iso, am I right? (which is now a necessity since from PVE CL7 have 5* node).

but with the new PVP system, and not pulling our cp/LT, i doubt we will have fully covered 4* and not have enough iso for it, which also mean when we are ready to champ 4*, at that time we can start pulling out our cp/LT and at that time because we were getting extra 3 4* covers every week from PVP progression we will spend less cp/LT than if we were not getting the extra 4* covers. (I am not saying this is the best strategy to play)

it is not just extra 4* cover, it is also extra iso, extra 3* cover, extra HP, and extra event token (or maybe two), depends on what we were able to hit before the change.

so if i start a new account and I play to 40 wins each pvp, yeah I can do better (even the full progression rewards from lower CL, will help not just from CL7 or CL8).


just a calculation for how many 4* covers we can get now without using cp/LT not for TOP players, that after we hit shield rank 32 (I think), so we can play at CL7.
calculation is not accurate but i hope it is close:
1- 3 covers from PVP progression / week.
2- 2 covers from PVE progression / week. (assuming 2 PVE events, or one PVE event that last a week).
3- lets say 2 more / week from other, like get it from a vault, open heroic token, or boss event alliance reward.
4- lets assume, we are always super lucky, and we never got more than 5 covers for a specific char/color.
5- lets assume the 4* char rotate equally.
6- there are now 58 4* char.

so from above it mean we are getting 7 4* covers / week , or one cover / day, we need 58 x 13 covers (to fully cover all, with super luck), also mean we need (58 x 13) - 57 covers to fully cover our 1st 4* char.

58 x 13 = 754 covers, also mean 754 days (over 2 years).
(58 x 13) - 58 = 697 covers, also 697 days (about one year and 11 months).
and that without counting the new 4* release, also add how many days needed before being able to play at CL7.

what I am trying to say here a noob will not end up having fully covered 4* quickly (unless using CP/LT, or maybe buy it from HfH or other places).

wymtime

So here is feedback for the Devs.  Right now I ha e over 1300 points in slice 3 with 19 hours left in the event.  I hav 36 wins and am in a dog fight for top 10 in CL7.  Think about that CL7 not 8.  You have created a system that discourages players from playing at their top CL overv15 CP.  I had over 900 points in under 30 wins.  I might be going down to CL6 in the next event t for a better chance for the 15CP.  Oh also I started the event right away so I could try and get to 40 wins and if the next event is night crawler I will do so again to get the 4* cover.  If you want to make this win bSed make the 4* at 30 wins and the CP at 40.  40 is still a lot of wins for 5* players but by moving it to progression you will go back to encouraging players to play in their top CL rather than dropping down to lower CL.

corytutor

28 wins. 1400 points almost. T2 because i said forget the covers, and went to scl 5 for cp. 

LFChikarason

Got to 900 points in 21 wins, which got me the prior 650 point prize. In my normal play style, I will regularly be missing out on a 3 star cover, a 4 star cover, another PVP token and 2500 ISO.

Every PVP

The plan seems to get folks to play twice as much for the same rewards as the past. 

A real bummer,,,

Milk Jugz

Lucifier said:

Milk Jugz said:

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

True iso is the limiting factor (now I am hoarding the Heroic tokens because I don't have enough iso and I do not want to waste 4* covers), but I will guess that you pulled your cp or LT, that's why you ended up having covers but not having enough iso, am I right? (which is now a necessity since from PVE CL7 have 5* node).

but with the new PVP system, and not pulling our cp/LT, i doubt we will have fully covered 4* and not have enough iso for it, which also mean when we are ready to champ 4*, at that time we can start pulling out our cp/LT and at that time because we were getting extra 3 4* covers every week from PVP progression we will spend less cp/LT than if we were not getting the extra 4* covers. (I am not saying this is the best strategy to play)

it is not just extra 4* cover, it is also extra iso, extra 3* cover, extra HP, and extra event token (or maybe two), depends on what we were able to hit before the change.

so if i start a new account and I play to 40 wins each pvp, yeah I can do better (even the full progression rewards from lower CL, will help not just from CL7 or CL8).


just a calculation for how many 4* covers we can get now without using cp/LT not for TOP players, that after we hit shield rank 32 (I think), so we can play at CL7.
calculation is not accurate but i hope it is close:
1- 3 covers from PVP progression / week.
2- 2 covers from PVE progression / week. (assuming 2 PVE events, or one PVE event that last a week).
3- lets say 2 more / week from other, like get it from a vault, open heroic token, or boss event alliance reward.
4- lets assume, we are always super lucky, and we never got more than 5 covers for a specific char/color.
5- lets assume the 4* char rotate equally.
6- there are now 58 4* char.

so from above it mean we are getting 7 4* covers / week , or one cover / day, we need 58 x 13 covers (to fully cover all, with super luck), also mean we need (58 x 13) - 57 covers to fully cover our 1st 4* char.

58 x 13 = 754 covers, also mean 754 days (over 2 years).
(58 x 13) - 58 = 697 covers, also 697 days (about one year and 11 months).
and that without counting the new 4* release, also add how many days needed before being able to play at CL7.

what I am trying to say here a noob will not end up having fully covered 4* quickly (unless using CP/LT, or maybe buy it from HfH or other places).

I'm on day 740 and, obviously, most were before win based progression. To cover every character at the 4* tier I still need 2 Rogue covers, 1 Lockjaw, 6 Howard covers, and 12 Nightcrawler covers (soon to be 9 hopefully, if I can hold down t10 tomorrow evening). Right now that is 21 covers. If I get the 3 tomorrow it's 18 covers. That is pretty much in line with your calculations there and all without win based progression. The problem with your calculations is, it's all speculation, no way to actually predict pulls like that. Yesterday I pulled back to back Parkers from LL, today on 3 hunt tokens and 2 heroic I pulled 2 Carnage with a bh Iceman. You also didn't calculate placement covers, etc... The fact of the matter is, from actual real experience not hyperbole, my roster progress DID NOT suffer because I couldn't reach 900 consistently until 5-6 seasons ago.

Pants1000

In the first event I hit 40 wins before I hit 900.  I was at 816 when I hit 40 wins.  I started early, and just played a few battles here and there without shielding.  I think I was hit 30-40 times on defense, which is fine by me since I was not worrying about points.  

It did take more battles and time than it would have taken me under the old system, but I like playing at my own pace and not having to spend HP on shields to get the 4*.

astrp3

Not that anyone cares, but I thought I’d post about my PvP experience so far, since it is different from what others have posted.

In Category-5, things went about the same as they normally do for me in terms of points, placement, and time spent (but not in matches played). I ended up with 50 wins/867 points for 31st place (in my bracket - 1200 would have netted you 10th place).

I played more matches than normal, but they were also easier , I had to skip less, lost less, and was able to use a wider variety of teams, so I feel like I only spent a little bit more time playing than before.

Background: I am an early 4* player (23 champs, highest is lvl 297), day 340. I play PvP and PvE at SCL7. In PvP, I reach 800 about half the time and 900 about half the time (I only go for 900 if I want the 4* cover). I almost always finish top 50 and occasionally top 25. I never tried for 1200 and doubt I could make it. I don't shield hop or use Line rooms. In PvE, I usually finish top 50 and occasionally top 10. 

I never tracked wins per PvP before, but I’d guess it was about 30. Why so high? Unlike a lot of people on here, under the previous system, I almost never saw 60-point queues, no matter how much I skipped and rarely saw upper 50s (maybe because I don't play in Line rooms or knowingly use grills). Most of my matches were for ca 39-52 points. I occasionally hit lower-point matches if I didn’t think they’d retal or if I was about to shield or reach a goal.

50 is almost twice that, but as I mentioned above, I don't fell like I spent much more time playing (though that may be a perception thing). For one thing, the matches were easier and faster - mostly 3* teams and, less often, 4* teams with neither 4* boosted. They were also less stressful and more fun, so maybe that made it seem like I was playing less time than I was. I also used fewer boosts and almost no health packs.

So overall, my experience wasn't as bad as I feared and was comparable to what it was before - a few things were a little better, a few were a little worse.

My main concern is what will happen as I progress. As I’ve built my roster, I’ve had to grind less and less (the grind is my number one complaint about the game by far). I was hoping that this trend would continue in the future and PvP would get even easier, but I’m worried that with the new system, it won’t and may actually get worse if I stop seeing those easy queues.

 

bOmbast

The 4* cover is a really attractive reward, but only in certain windows of your roster development. It's vital from the point where you have a healthy amount of 3* champs (no need for them until then) - until you have 20+ 4* champs (when you start getting many more than you can use). 

Judging from my own roster, and several others in my alliance at roughly the same point, once you reach 20-30 4* champs, you will have most of the 4* covered. ISO becomes the problem, not covers. Using CP to pull only gives you covers you can't use - same with event progression rewards.

This is a good change for the 3-4 transitioners, but they too will see the problems once they get to the point where covers cease to be the most attractive reward.  

Bowgentle

It took me 44 wins to hit 2091, all dual champed 5s except for two grills.
1200 in my cl7 bracket goes down further than I can see (t20).
That's an awful lot of people missing out on 15 CP.
T5 starts at 2300, 2000 probably won't get you t10.

Thank you for another brilliant design decision, Demiurge.

Rod5

Bowgentle said:

It took me 44 wins to hit 2091, all dual champed 5s except for two grills.
1200 in my cl7 bracket goes down further than I can see (t20).
That's an awful lot of people missing out on 15 CP.
T5 starts at 2300, 2000 probably won't get you t10.

Thank you for another brilliant design decision, Demiurge.

But think of all those lucky noobs in CL5 who are getting CPs that they have no use for. 

xdogg

CL8, had 900 points with 20 wins, ended up rank 21 with 1233 points, so I play twice as much as I usually would and lose out on 15 cp, guess I'll drop down a couple CLs and see if it makes any difference, probably not because I'm sure a lot of other people are going to do the same

astrp3

OJSP said:

Used my 4*s to climb from 101 to 600, took 1 hr and 30 minutes and 12 matches (got hit twice). 

OJSP, how did it take 90 minutes for 12 matches? Unless I'm severely underestimating, I don't think it would have taken me more than half an hour to do 12 matches, if that, and I'm sure it didn't take me an hour and a half for my first twelve post-seed-team matches (I'll try to time myself in Devil You Know). Are you playing against 5* teams?  Are you skipping hundreds of times? Are you doing other things while playing?

I suspect your roster is far ahead of mine and if so, I really hope it isn't the case that it will start taking me 90 minutes for 12 matches. This game is enough of a grind as it is and I was hoping that improving my roster would make it less of one (it has so far). If it actually makes my matches take significantly longer, I may have to think about quitting. 

BTW, did you not do the seed teams? I entered at the start and got 8-10 of them in about five minutes. I've pretty much always done that but I think it's especially crucial under the new system.

CharlieCroker

OJSP has multiple 5* champions, so most likely all matches were against duo 5* teams.  This weeks boost list isn't the strongest or quickest so I can easily see matches with 4's vs 5's taking up to 10m each.

If using 5's vs 5's then 3-5m is more of a standard time for a match, but again this can vary based on the 5's you're using/against and who the essential character is.