Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

Milk Jugz

@Spudgutter

You keep preaching in this "the other side", the little guy that can't get to 900 at all or regularly. I have a problem with your stance in that we all have been that little guy. I didn't join MPQ a little over 2 years ago and start hitting top progression immediately. We all have been that little guy. We have been telling people keep building your roster, you will get there, we did. With win based what is the incentive to build your roster up? You can grind 40 wins right out of the prologue with the 3 1* characters the game starts you with. As a 3* it was fairly easy to find "easy" targets, a little harder with a 4* roster but they still existed. With a 5* roster "easy" targets do not exist. Where is the incentive to build past a certain point?? @Tony Foot said it in one of these threads (I lost track of which one) win based has killed his incentive to pull his almost 300 LL to jump into 5* land. It actually makes sense for progression to be harder with a low level roster, making progression harder as your roster gets better makes no sense whatsoever.......

Spudgutter

@Milk Jugz

I posted earlier in this same thread to you and you didnt respond, so i will copy/paste


don't believe me?  you have your roster in your signature.  46 champed 3*, 41 champed 4*, and four champed 5*.

now go create an all new account.  Knowing what you know, with your alliance connections, knowledge of good versus bad characters, how and when to hoard which tokens and any other little tidbit that would give you a leg up on another new player.  under the current system, how long until you have a comparable roster?  how long would it take for someone without your insight?  

now try to tell me with a straight face that a new person can't get there a little bit quicker just by grinding out 40 wins an event and getting all those 4* that much quicker.

corytutor

So they got a 4. 

Until they have all 2s and 3s it dont mean much if anything

corytutor

If they aren't smart enough to see that its going to take up a valuable roster slot as they continue to struggle with not having iso or hp or essential toons

Milk Jugz

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

I posted earlier in this same thread to you and you didnt respond, so i will copy/paste


don't believe me?  you have your roster in your signature.  46 champed 3*, 41 champed 4*, and four champed 5*.

now go create an all new account.  Knowing what you know, with your alliance connections, knowledge of good versus bad characters, how and when to hoard which tokens and any other little tidbit that would give you a leg up on another new player.  under the current system, how long until you have a comparable roster?  how long would it take for someone without your insight?  

now try to tell me with a straight face that a new person can't get there a little bit quicker just by grinding out 40 wins an event and getting all those 4* that much quicker.

First of all, I saw this and didn't think it dignified a response.... See what I did there?

Secondly, I acknowledged that fact in my post to you

Milk Jugz said:

@Spudgutter

You can grind 40 wins right out of the prologue with the 3 1* characters the game starts you with.

I deleted the rest to keep the length on this down.

Third, that doesn't answer my question. What is the incentive to build your roster up when the game punishes you for it?

No matter what you say I'll maintain this, it makes no sense to have progression get harder as you make your roster better. But, it makes sense for progression to be hard with a lesser roster.

corytutor

Mpq has a history of abusing you more the stronger you get.

Scaling. Mmr. 5* nodes. High priced roster slots. And now more toons than you could ever iso. 

fmftint

Storm pvp I'm at 37 wins, 1800 points, haven't "earned" a 4 star cover yet and also not guaranteed 15 command points.  AWESOME

Spudgutter

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

corytutor

I am. Barely. But i am. 

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Participation PVP lets players hits progressions before they are ready to use them. Just what the noobs always wanted.

And if those noobs pony up for slots, just what the devs always wanted, too: new spenders!

Skipping 4*s to go straight to 5s was questionable. It was short-term gain for players that created huge iso "debts".

Imagine trying to skip 3s to go straight to 4s? That's straight up crippling. New players won't know any better.

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Milk Jugz

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said:

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Hit rank 32? I dunno. My alt is rank 45. I've played it casually for 436 days. Casual as in a couple matches a day. And I bought a few slots for it. When Ranks rolled out, it was rank 26 at day 200ish. If it was an active account it'd get there a LOT faster. Say 60-120 days?

(I would say ask Brigby but we don't know how active he plays .... if he still does.)

Unless the new player has hooked into the community and found some guidance, they are absolutely noobs. This game is opaque.

This change has wide-ranging effects. This, enabling noobs to expose themselves to more spending pressure, is one of them.

I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

Milk Jugz

Vhailorx said:

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said:

How long does it take to hit rank 32 these days?  Is anyone who can join cl7 and grind that 4* cover really a new player?  Are we arguing about the effect of this change in the noob when it really only affects players who have been around for months?

Hit rank 32? I dunno. My alt is rank 45. I've played it casually for 436 days. Casual as in a couple matches a day. And I bought a few slots for it. When Ranks rolled out, it was rank 26 at day 200ish. If it was an active account it'd get there a LOT faster. Say 60-120 days?

(I would say ask Brigby but we don't know how active he plays .... if he still does.)

Unless the new player has hooked into the community and found some guidance, they are absolutely noobs. This game is opaque.

This change has wide-ranging effects. This, enabling noobs to expose themselves to more spending pressure, is one of them.

I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

Ok, I apologize @Vhailorx I was exaggerating my point a bit. But, still the point remains that a very low roster can grind for those covers, before they truly need them. As I pointed out in my last post, iso is the limiting factor on my roster, not covers. Missing out on those 4* covers when I had a 2* and 3* roster had no bearing on where my roster is now.

Vhailorx

aesthetocyst said:

Vhailorx said: ... I don't disagree with you per se.  I just think that everyone is getting a little sidetracked with the "now you can grind 4* covers with a 1* roster."

No one who has access to the 4* cover in pvp will have a 1* roster.  Getting to rank 32 requires roster-building activities.

I chimed in to suggest that this would enable 2* players to access more 4s before they could make much use of them. Y'know, pressure them to slot a ton of chars they won't get use of for a long time.

Maybe you should respond to whoever brought up 1*s?

Nah. Much more fun to harass you!  

Lucifier

Milk Jugz said:

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

True iso is the limiting factor (now I am hoarding the Heroic tokens because I don't have enough iso and I do not want to waste 4* covers), but I will guess that you pulled your cp or LT, that's why you ended up having covers but not having enough iso, am I right? (which is now a necessity since from PVE CL7 have 5* node).

but with the new PVP system, and not pulling our cp/LT, i doubt we will have fully covered 4* and not have enough iso for it, which also mean when we are ready to champ 4*, at that time we can start pulling out our cp/LT and at that time because we were getting extra 3 4* covers every week from PVP progression we will spend less cp/LT than if we were not getting the extra 4* covers. (I am not saying this is the best strategy to play)

it is not just extra 4* cover, it is also extra iso, extra 3* cover, extra HP, and extra event token (or maybe two), depends on what we were able to hit before the change.

so if i start a new account and I play to 40 wins each pvp, yeah I can do better (even the full progression rewards from lower CL, will help not just from CL7 or CL8).


just a calculation for how many 4* covers we can get now without using cp/LT not for TOP players, that after we hit shield rank 32 (I think), so we can play at CL7.
calculation is not accurate but i hope it is close:
1- 3 covers from PVP progression / week.
2- 2 covers from PVE progression / week. (assuming 2 PVE events, or one PVE event that last a week).
3- lets say 2 more / week from other, like get it from a vault, open heroic token, or boss event alliance reward.
4- lets assume, we are always super lucky, and we never got more than 5 covers for a specific char/color.
5- lets assume the 4* char rotate equally.
6- there are now 58 4* char.

so from above it mean we are getting 7 4* covers / week , or one cover / day, we need 58 x 13 covers (to fully cover all, with super luck), also mean we need (58 x 13) - 57 covers to fully cover our 1st 4* char.

58 x 13 = 754 covers, also mean 754 days (over 2 years).
(58 x 13) - 58 = 697 covers, also 697 days (about one year and 11 months).
and that without counting the new 4* release, also add how many days needed before being able to play at CL7.

what I am trying to say here a noob will not end up having fully covered 4* quickly (unless using CP/LT, or maybe buy it from HfH or other places).

wymtime

So here is feedback for the Devs.  Right now I ha e over 1300 points in slice 3 with 19 hours left in the event.  I hav 36 wins and am in a dog fight for top 10 in CL7.  Think about that CL7 not 8.  You have created a system that discourages players from playing at their top CL overv15 CP.  I had over 900 points in under 30 wins.  I might be going down to CL6 in the next event t for a better chance for the 15CP.  Oh also I started the event right away so I could try and get to 40 wins and if the next event is night crawler I will do so again to get the 4* cover.  If you want to make this win bSed make the 4* at 30 wins and the CP at 40.  40 is still a lot of wins for 5* players but by moving it to progression you will go back to encouraging players to play in their top CL rather than dropping down to lower CL.

corytutor

28 wins. 1400 points almost. T2 because i said forget the covers, and went to scl 5 for cp. 

LFChikarason

Got to 900 points in 21 wins, which got me the prior 650 point prize. In my normal play style, I will regularly be missing out on a 3 star cover, a 4 star cover, another PVP token and 2500 ISO.

Every PVP

The plan seems to get folks to play twice as much for the same rewards as the past. 

A real bummer,,,

Milk Jugz

Lucifier said:

Milk Jugz said:

Spudgutter said:

@Milk Jugz

Considering i wasn't literally insulting anyone, i don't see what you did there?  I asked a legitimate question that you didnt answer twice now.  Yes, you could grind 40 wins with 1* now, but as cory pointed out, you still wouldnt have 2* and 3* so i don't get your response. 

I guess it's partly my fault for answering a question with a question.

To answer yours, though, i dont know why they punish you for progressing.  And yet all of us are still playing. Me, you, cory tonyfoot, etc.  I agree, you aren't changing your mind, but you arent going to stop playing either.

@Spudgutter

A legitimate question? What, how long will it take me to have a comparable roster? Honestly I have to say just as long as it's taken now. I've had at least 12 4s fully covered at any given time since before I finished champing 3*. The limiting factor on my roster has been iso, not covers. So, I guess I could say that losing out on all those early 4* covers before I could hit 900 had no bearing on my roster progression. Now that I have most of them champed, however, it's a much bigger issue if I don't have the time to grind 40 wins. Now they are champ levels and I need lots of those.

True iso is the limiting factor (now I am hoarding the Heroic tokens because I don't have enough iso and I do not want to waste 4* covers), but I will guess that you pulled your cp or LT, that's why you ended up having covers but not having enough iso, am I right? (which is now a necessity since from PVE CL7 have 5* node).

but with the new PVP system, and not pulling our cp/LT, i doubt we will have fully covered 4* and not have enough iso for it, which also mean when we are ready to champ 4*, at that time we can start pulling out our cp/LT and at that time because we were getting extra 3 4* covers every week from PVP progression we will spend less cp/LT than if we were not getting the extra 4* covers. (I am not saying this is the best strategy to play)

it is not just extra 4* cover, it is also extra iso, extra 3* cover, extra HP, and extra event token (or maybe two), depends on what we were able to hit before the change.

so if i start a new account and I play to 40 wins each pvp, yeah I can do better (even the full progression rewards from lower CL, will help not just from CL7 or CL8).


just a calculation for how many 4* covers we can get now without using cp/LT not for TOP players, that after we hit shield rank 32 (I think), so we can play at CL7.
calculation is not accurate but i hope it is close:
1- 3 covers from PVP progression / week.
2- 2 covers from PVE progression / week. (assuming 2 PVE events, or one PVE event that last a week).
3- lets say 2 more / week from other, like get it from a vault, open heroic token, or boss event alliance reward.
4- lets assume, we are always super lucky, and we never got more than 5 covers for a specific char/color.
5- lets assume the 4* char rotate equally.
6- there are now 58 4* char.

so from above it mean we are getting 7 4* covers / week , or one cover / day, we need 58 x 13 covers (to fully cover all, with super luck), also mean we need (58 x 13) - 57 covers to fully cover our 1st 4* char.

58 x 13 = 754 covers, also mean 754 days (over 2 years).
(58 x 13) - 58 = 697 covers, also 697 days (about one year and 11 months).
and that without counting the new 4* release, also add how many days needed before being able to play at CL7.

what I am trying to say here a noob will not end up having fully covered 4* quickly (unless using CP/LT, or maybe buy it from HfH or other places).

I'm on day 740 and, obviously, most were before win based progression. To cover every character at the 4* tier I still need 2 Rogue covers, 1 Lockjaw, 6 Howard covers, and 12 Nightcrawler covers (soon to be 9 hopefully, if I can hold down t10 tomorrow evening). Right now that is 21 covers. If I get the 3 tomorrow it's 18 covers. That is pretty much in line with your calculations there and all without win based progression. The problem with your calculations is, it's all speculation, no way to actually predict pulls like that. Yesterday I pulled back to back Parkers from LL, today on 3 hunt tokens and 2 heroic I pulled 2 Carnage with a bh Iceman. You also didn't calculate placement covers, etc... The fact of the matter is, from actual real experience not hyperbole, my roster progress DID NOT suffer because I couldn't reach 900 consistently until 5-6 seasons ago.

Pants1000

In the first event I hit 40 wins before I hit 900.  I was at 816 when I hit 40 wins.  I started early, and just played a few battles here and there without shielding.  I think I was hit 30-40 times on defense, which is fine by me since I was not worrying about points.  

It did take more battles and time than it would have taken me under the old system, but I like playing at my own pace and not having to spend HP on shields to get the 4*.