Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

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Comments

  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    corytutor said:
    Yes. How else could you justify taking a reward available to all, limit it to the top 2% and say it helps the little guy? It doesnt. If anything its going to further seperate the top from everyone else. 

    It wont be helpful to the little guy for years, and then hes going to hit a wall trying to transition to 5* land. 

    Its pretty obviously flawed. 
    Available to all?  Are you serious?  Your stance is that every single player (aka all) should be hitting 1200 in Black Vortex right now?  Now who is being foolish?

    As far as helping the little guy, I am at day 1400ish.  My kid is around 150-200. He has four 5*, one with two covers, and several well covered 4*.  The newer players are way different from when I was a new player.  It will be much different 400-500 days from now
  • corytutor
    corytutor Posts: 414 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2017
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
  • larzilla
    larzilla Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    Philly484 said:
    Well the reasoning of more players being able to obtain top 10 is completely inaccurate. They are punishing the Veteran players who have took time to develop their roster. Players shouldn't feel like they are being punished, and that is clearly how more of the majority feels. I understand new players are excited about the change it helps develop the roster faster, but then the "Brick Wall" will hit the new players faster, and they will either quit playing because they don't want to spend money, or they will stick with it and spend money. I have a feeling the higher percentage will be new players dropping off.

    The purpose serves new players in roster development, but hurts developed rosters, and from comments from new players they are only looking at the quick 4* cover versus long-term effects of the change. Which will result in not having applicable CP once they want to try to move into 5* territory. Also to the players who want to bad mouth those of us who spend money on the game, that isn't a fair statement(s). If that is what makes the game enjoyable for us, then that is what makes the game enjoyable for us. This move isn't justifiable in regards to veterans, and in my opinion even new players, because all you are looking at is getting a quick 4* cover.
    Yup! Couldn't have said it better.  
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    Spudgutter said:
    corytutor said:
    Yes. How else could you justify taking a reward available to all, limit it to the top 2% and say it helps the little guy? It doesnt. If anything its going to further seperate the top from everyone else. 

    It wont be helpful to the little guy for years, and then hes going to hit a wall trying to transition to 5* land. 

    Its pretty obviously flawed. 
    Available to all?  Are you serious?  Your stance is that every single player (aka all) should be hitting 1200 in Black Vortex right now?  Now who is being foolish?

    As far as helping the little guy, I am at day 1400ish.  My kid is around 150-200. He has four 5*, one with two covers, and several well covered 4*.  The newer players are way different from when I was a new player.  It will be much different 400-500 days from now
    I think he means if they made it 40 or 45 wins or whatever it would be available to all (when it wasn't in the old system), which is a change they don't want.  It's not bad logic tbh.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
  • Lucifier
    Lucifier Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
    Philly484 said:
    I understand new players are excited about the change it helps develop the roster faster, but then the "Brick Wall" will hit the new players faster, and they will either quit playing because they don't want to spend money, or they will stick with it and spend money. I have a feeling the higher percentage will be new players dropping off.

    why would be a Brick wall for new players, specially very new players (as start day one after this change, so they did not saw the "old or current"  PVP system).

    1. for very new players, it is like, i got 10 cp from progression + other rewards + placement rewards.
    2. for new player they will develop 4* roster faster, saving more time.
    3. now to the point, after player have multiple 4* champed, after moving cp from progression to the placements, and lets only talk about the players who will not place in top10 (before they were getting 15cp from each PVP), how much cp did they lost, they lost about 20% of their cp income.
    total cp income is:
    • about 25 cp from PVP progression / 3 days
    • about 30 cp from PVE progression / 3 days.
    • 2 cp / day from ddq  =  6 / 3 days.
    • lets say 5cp / day from other sources (champ rewards, daily rewards, VIP (both daily rewards + intercept), someone in your alliance make purchase or renew VIP). = 15 / 3 day.
    now the total is 25 + 30 + 6 + 15 = 76 cp / 3 day, losing 15 cp from it, 15 / 76 x 100% = 19.7% lets say 20%
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    carrion pigeons said:
    Foolish and stupid are literally synonyms.  Not much secret about that.
    A lot of words are synonymous, that's why context is very important.

    If I'm super drunk at a bar and try to play darts, I'm being foolish.

    If I'm super drunk at a bar and try to drive home, I'm being stupid.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    fmftint said:
    The reason command points aren't in progression is simple,  they don't want EVERYONE to earn it. But saying that directly is bad PR so we get the spun version,  more players make T10 than 1200!

    High five
    Yeah, obviously.  That's why I have been trying to call out brigby on the absurdity of that spin for the past 24 hours.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
    At the start of a marathon do they tell everyone don't bother racing only 10% can finish in the top 10? Every competitor has the chance to finish in a high placement. It comes down to how bad do you want it.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    carrion pigeons said:
    Foolish and stupid are literally synonyms.  Not much secret about that.
    A lot of words are synonymous, that's why context is very important.

    If I'm super drunk at a bar and try to play darts, I'm being foolish.

    If I'm super drunk at a bar and try to drive home, I'm being stupid.
    I am pretty sure that playing darts while super drunk is darts working as intended. . .

    But to split some more hairs.  I didn't say you are stupid or foolish spud.  I said that anyone who took demi/d3's marketing spin at face value (maybe you?) is doing a foolish (or stupid) thing.  It's a small difference, but significant in context IMO.  it's the difference between attacking someone personally and criticizing the arguments or positions that someone is taking. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
    At the start of a marathon do they tell everyone don't bother racing only 10% can finish in the top 10? Every competitor has the chance to finish in a high placement. It comes down to how bad do you want it.
    It's the difference between saying that every runner in a 500 person marathan has a chance to:

    (1) finish in the top 10, or
    (2) finish in less than 2:30.

    #1 is absolutely impossible.  #2 is very unlikely because running a marathon that fast is hard.  But individual ability is the limiting factor, not basic arithmetic.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
    At the start of a marathon do they tell everyone don't bother racing only 10% can finish in the top 10? Every competitor has the chance to finish in a high placement. It comes down to how bad do you want it.
    Prefect example.  Say the 15 CP was a trophy you got for finishing the race (even if you were dead last).  It was technically possible for all 500 players to get it (but practically impossible for most).  Now it's a placement reward that only 10 people per bracket can get.  It's literally impossible for more than 10 people to get instead of practically impossible.  

    In reality the toughest brackets some people who would have got it 1200 will miss out.  In the easiest brackets more people will get it.  It's a very odd change and IMO it's totally reasonable to be upset about it.  While I'm all for the win based change they tinykitty the pooch on this aspect of it.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
    At the start of a marathon do they tell everyone don't bother racing only 10% can finish in the top 10? Every competitor has the chance to finish in a high placement. It comes down to how bad do you want it.
    This is a great post.

    I agree wholeheartedly that saying everyone can reach 1200 points regardless of roster is ummm... silly.  Yeah, let's say silly.  Though if someone wants to start a brand new account, hit 1200 in Black Vortex and prove me wrong I'll happily eat my words.  It is not possible for everyone to reach 1200 or finish top 10, but it is possible for anyone to reach top 10 (not anyone can reach 1200).

    If you want to say with time (years perhaps), proper resources, adequate strategy, and roster development, anyone can reach 1200 I'll agree with you.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    corytutor said:
    Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. 
    Quote number one, I didnt even want to dignify it with a response

    Vhailorx said:

    corytutor said:


    Anyone who thinks removong a reward accessible to all, and only makes it available to the top 2 % and says its for everyone's benefit is either a liar, stupid, or both. 
    I agree with much of the content of this post, though the tone is a bit more conspiratorial than I think is useful. 

    But the last parahraph is wrong.  

    Quote 2.  I am not taking what they said at face value, foolish or not.  I'm saying I can understand the reasoning we are coming up with on our own.  We are all free to disagree on how we come to our conclusion, and what that conclusion is, but to just say that anyone that does not agree with you must be a liar or stupid has no place in a respectable discussion.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    broll said:
    tiomono said:
    corytutor said:
    Available to all in the sense that all had a chance to obtain it. 

    If the cp is on the progression side, anyone who chooses to get it can do so. 
    A lot more people can hit x number of wins than can creep into t10. Its not rocket science. 
    But the chance for every player to get into top 10 is still there. So in that sense it's still available to all.
    ROFL!!  What?!  No it's not...  By default 10 people get T10 and another 490 cannot (assuming full bracket).  People can snipe, but only 10 per bracket would get the T10 sniping.  It's a mathematical impossibility for everyone to get T10 the way the game works.
    But it's possible for any player to compete. So any player could get it with proper play. Obviously not every player finishes top 10 but you can if you play it right. 
    So if 12 people do 'proper play' they all get it?  No... say 40 top tier 5* players all end up in the same bracket.  Play as 'proper' as they want, only 10 of them are getting that regardless if they all go up to 300,000 points.  That's the complaint.  It's not invalid either.
    At the start of a marathon do they tell everyone don't bother racing only 10% can finish in the top 10? Every competitor has the chance to finish in a high placement. It comes down to how bad do you want it.
    This is a great post.

    I agree wholeheartedly that saying everyone can reach 1200 points regardless of roster is ummm... silly.  Yeah, let's say silly.  Though if someone wants to start a brand new account, hit 1200 in Black Vortex and prove me wrong I'll happily eat my words.  It is not possible for everyone to reach 1200 or finish top 10, but it is possible for anyone to reach top 10 (not anyone can reach 1200).

    If you want to say with time (years perhaps), proper resources, adequate strategy, and roster development, anyone can reach 1200 I'll agree with you.
    Let me know how well getting T10 in SCL5 or up goes with your new account example....

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