The ChaHulk meta

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Comments

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    I think people know the problem. Rather than git gud they appear to be operating under the assumption that nerfing or effective counters before rotating out hasn’t happened before and there is no reason to expect it this time. I expect that once the revive mechanic is effectively countered the meta will go back to changing weekly.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    I mean the loaner dead, and at least one of your pick 2 characters dead, and then your remaining character needing a healthpack, so below 2/3 health.”

    There are no sleep immune characters who are a viable counter currently to the big leveled Chasms you see above 900. I love the rebalance to surfer, but he has never come out of a chasm fight alive and I’ve tried. There aren’t any good Mutants to put with Apocalypse but he is closest to being effective with his low AP costs and good middle color power. Moon Knight is not good against any team unfortunately. Thano5 is so close to being the counter we need; his purple can make all the difference but even though his health made it farther than most elder 5* characters it’s too low now for this.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I mean the loaner dead, and at least one of your pick 2 characters dead, and then your remaining character needing a healthpack, so below 2/3 health.”

    There are no sleep immune characters who are a viable counter currently to the big leveled Chasms you see above 900. I love the rebalance to surfer, but he has never come out of a chasm fight alive and I’ve tried. There aren’t any good Mutants to put with Apocalypse but he is closest to being effective with his low AP costs and good middle color power. Moon Knight is not good against any team unfortunately. Thano5 is so close to being the counter we need; his purple can make all the difference but even though his health made it farther than most elder 5* characters it’s too low now for this.

    Stop being ungrateful!
    I'm sure all counters work wonderfully!
    For one match, at 900, after which you come out to -300, needing two health packs, and have to start again.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @Bowgentle said:

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I mean the loaner dead, and at least one of your pick 2 characters dead, and then your remaining character needing a healthpack, so below 2/3 health.”

    There are no sleep immune characters who are a viable counter currently to the big leveled Chasms you see above 900. I love the rebalance to surfer, but he has never come out of a chasm fight alive and I’ve tried. There aren’t any good Mutants to put with Apocalypse but he is closest to being effective with his low AP costs and good middle color power. Moon Knight is not good against any team unfortunately. Thano5 is so close to being the counter we need; his purple can make all the difference but even though his health made it farther than most elder 5* characters it’s too low now for this.

    Stop being ungrateful!
    I'm sure all counters work wonderfully!
    For one match, at 900, after which you come out to -300, needing two health packs, and have to start again.

    Once an actual, non-mirror match counter exists, those slow mirror matches won't be viable anymore. The only reason it's working now is because people are still afraid to target a Chasm/Hulk team as evidenced anecdotally by Daredevil's push to 1200 unshielded.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    3/4 loaner dying is a guarantee. The math has already proven that. If you are using loaner, their dying before you make your first match is a norm, unless it's a 5* pvp. I don't think there is any non-5* loaner with more than 24k hp.

    Colossus/Wanda works and you don't take a lot of damage. Both will still be alive with over 50% hp. I've tested against ~470 Chasm, and mine is only low 45x.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream Posts: 2,017 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I mean the loaner dead, and at least one of your pick 2 characters dead, and then your remaining character needing a healthpack, so below 2/3 health.”

    There are no sleep immune characters who are a viable counter currently to the big leveled Chasms you see above 900. I love the rebalance to surfer, but he has never come out of a chasm fight alive and I’ve tried. There aren’t any good Mutants to put with Apocalypse but he is closest to being effective with his low AP costs and good middle color power. Moon Knight is not good against any team unfortunately. Thano5 is so close to being the counter we need; his purple can make all the difference but even though his health made it farther than most elder 5* characters it’s too low now for this.

    I was actually just thinking that thematically Thanos would be the perfect counter. I don't see the Mad Titan being too pleased about this pair escaping his beloved's cold embrace. And as you astutely surmised, his skill set is just a couple notches below what is needed to restore balance to the MPQ universe.

    If they updated his numbers to the current generation, dropped his purple cost to 6, upped its match damage boost to 130% and probably most importantly increased the damage dealt by Court of Death by an extra 10K or so, you could pair him with Colossus or a good boosted character and have a fairly effective counter.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    3/4 loaner dying is a guarantee. The math has already proven that. If you are using loaner, their dying before you make your first match is a norm, unless it's a 5* pvp. I don't think there is any non-5* loaner with more than 24k hp.

    Colossus/Wanda works and you don't take a lot of damage. Both will still be alive with over 50% hp. I've tested against ~470 Chasm, and mine is only low 45x.

    It works below 900pts based on the levels you mentioned. Try pushing to full 1200pt progression and check back with us.

  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards

    My issue with the Chasm-Ihulk meta is that it is difficult to win with any booster duo.

    During SW-Colossus meta, they were rampant, yes, but you could take them down with any boosted duo. Not so with chasm-Ihulk. If the boosted 5* list do not have any AOE specialist, it is just too difficult to take down them together. Then they go into this immortal cycle, and you watch helplessly as they slowly whittle you down.

    That’s my main problem with this meta.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    Been there, done that. I always hit 1200 in pvps, unless I play in the last 1-3 hours where I get hit repeatedly regardless of whether Chasm exists or not. I use other counters I mentioned as well. I've beaten 5xx-550 Chasm and 46x-47x iHulk with Dr Thor and Iceman multiple times already.

    Here's three videos of Dr Thor and Iceman in action

    Vs baby champed Chasm
    https://streamable.com/vlzsb7

    Vs ~500 Chasm
    https://streamable.com/mrs4a8

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    Iceman and Jane is one of the better options to be sure. Still isn't hyper quick, and in my experience not hyper reliable, but it's usable. How big was that hulk, do you recall? seemed like there was a big chasm but a small hulk, having only 40k hit points. the ones I see are usually more closely matched in level.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    There's nothing particularly bad about Chasm. Paured with anyone he's a good opponent, annoying defensively and can cause some damage. He's only broke really when paired with Hulk. If the revive thing were to somehow be negated when paired with another revive character, then I think all the combining would go away and the people who dropped for a big Chasm will still have that strong character on their rosters without feeling cheated

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    I really don't want to see a chasm nerf, and I'm interested to try out this super low power-cost Riri to see if it is a viable counter, I just think we need some tools. Panthos would be a great counter-meta if they were both buffed soonish.

  • allen_koholic
    allen_koholic Posts: 105 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2022

    Nerfing/countering the revive won't fix the bigger problem with Chasm, which is a passive targeted AP drain. I can't stress this enough - Gambit at one point was considered a menace because of his AP drain, and it was only 1 AP being snatched in a random color. Chasm quite effectively makes matches without either casades or match-4/5s useless.

  • slow
    slow Posts: 18 Just Dropped In

    I think if Chasm don't fully shut off BRB's Yellow passive & let him create the initial protect tiles(back from stunned). Kitty will buff them etc. then the game might be balanced a little bit again.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    @allen_koholic said:
    Nerfing/countering the revive won't fix the bigger problem with Chasm, which is a passive targeted AP drain. I can't stress this enough - Gambit at one point was considered a menace because of his AP drain, and it was only 1 AP being snatched in a random color. Chasm quite effectively makes matches without either casades or match-4/5s useless.

    The AP drain isnt the bigger problem..
    it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's a fair ability for someone without any active powers. And its easily manageable. The revive isn't even a big deal...unless paired with Hulk.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    I used Beta Ray Bill plus a max-champ Peggy and Hydra Stomper to beat a baby champed revive team. The pick 3 options really are much better than the pick 2.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I would love to keep skipping to hit high level Chasm and low level championed iHulk but it's not easy. At best, I can find 47X Chasm + 45X-46X Chasm, which isn't difficult. I suppose it's due to playing in LR.

    Anyway, they do help past 900 in pvps. All you need is familiarity and experience with using them.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    I was just trying to figure out what level the hulk in your video was - it looked like it had ~40k health, which is baby champ territory (my level 456 has just under 42k) compared to that very high health Chasm. Just seemed like an odd team.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,570 Chairperson of the Boards

    Hela is another one who should like to face a revive team, particularly a hulk-based one creating all that green, but her low health means that she can be tough to keep alive. You can use her in pick-3 with Carbage and BRB, just keep targeting hulk. It's novel enough, but not something that'll get you through more than a single match.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Thanos courting death won't be greatly buffed after a rebalance, as AoE can't be too high because it would cause unbalances.
    There could be effective counters but actually there is no any effective counter working well on defense, as chasm is the new shining guy and others are 4*s or old characters.
    SW is a good defensive character but won't protect the first turn.
    Colossus is a good option but won't protect the first turn neither.
    Riri seems a good option but it's the same as above.
    A good chasm counter should be designed reflecting the collective stun ala BW that on first place, and then offering true heal, or maybe offering protects if there is too consecutive damage like Blob.

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