The ChaHulk meta

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  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,329 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @acescracked said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @Sekilicious said:
    This is the third boost list in a row where Chasm + iHulk were minor on the queue list in Pick-2 PvP. Baby champed MMR of course. I remember Ronan was considered DoA but he seems to be effective when boosted at least. I’m glad the boost list seems to be an effective counter to the immortal bros, occasionally at least.

    Definitely not true for me. I guess it depends how high you climb and when but I was in slice 1 and it was all chasm/hulk as far as the eye could see past maybe 900. I tried running Ronan/Sersi megaboosted and was getting hammered left and right. Used so many health packs. Once I switched to Hulkasm myself I got hit twice (once was a +12 defensive win) and I easily hit 1200. I also started hitting those mega-boosted toons myself if I was lucky enough to see them in a sea of Chas.

    I miss the old meta that changed week to week and feel that if one character is making other REALLY GOOD characters obsolete even with 110 extra levels, that’s not good game balance. Whether you find Chasm himself fun or unfun, fast or slow. I’ll likely ask the devs thoughts on this next Q/A.

    Same exact thing happened before chasm with Wanda/Colossus.

    Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.

    Now it's all chasm/ihulk unless there's a stellar boost list like jane and collosus being boosted at the same time. Ronan is a beast when boosted and past weeks he's been boosted he's been the meta, but in Namor pvp I barely saw Ronan at all, it was all hulkchasm wall to wall.

    I did find that boosted Ronan was good for dealing with them though. Apoc/Ronan worked well against the chasm/ihulk teams for me. Since yellow and blue are no ones strongest color chasm doesn't drain them. So use boosts for y/r, b/p, and all color boost. Get apoc yellow out then chase blue. Once your able to fire Ronan cheap blue a few times the board is flooded with repeaters so hulk doesn't go off and then match one of the repeater tiles and boosted by apoc it pretty much kills the whole team at once.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,746 Chairperson of the Boards

    Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards

    @BriMan2222 said:
    Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.

    @Borstock said:
    Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.

    Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm curious how many 550 there are in this thread. As a baby champed 5* player, I don't think Chasm/iHulk is that intimidating once you gained enough experience beating them. I think the "fear" has been greatly exaggerated, which is not a bad thing because those players inflicted with fear skip them, which then caused them to give delicious points for players who don't mind challenging them and beating them. Even if you happen to lose, you lose <5 points.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Slices joined do play a part. Slice 1 will give you a better selection, compared to other slices. And looking at your enemy teams, are you a 550 or high 5xx player?

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,746 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Slices joined do play a part. Slice 1 will give you a better selection, compared to other slices. And looking at your enemy teams, are you a 550 or high 5xx player?

    A 516 Apocalypse and 515 Okoye are my highest.

    Mind you, I don't object to having to face 550 teams. I used to attack 550 teams all the time. I'd win some. I'd lose some. I can live with that. They have a stronger roster. They should beat me some of the time. And I have a 480 Chasm myself. This meta is just a nightmare.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    At first a chahulk team rewarded 75 points. However it's not the case anymore, now it's no more than 50 due to points scarcity.
    So you will face a long battle for to earn just 50 points. It has some resemblance with the present inflation: it's needed more work for having less.
    The points scarcity are due to players not wanting to face chahulk teams.
    The hulkoye team meta was awful and was health pack deterrent however it was thrilling and if everything was running ok, it was fast.
    Chahulk meta is health pack consuming but is slow as many times is just about killing ihulk 3 times if there is no AP and a good setting for AoE.
    New character riri could be capable of defeating them easily with SW help, still chasm will grant the always slow battle.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards

    It remains to be seen if New Riri is actually viable. I've tried using Sersi or 5Witch and it can take several turns to get 3 purple. Maybe the charge tile stuff can overcome that. I remain more interested in a real, meaningful counter team than a nerf, so I hope that's true.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @Borstock said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @BriMan2222 said:
    Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.

    @Borstock said:
    Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.

    Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!

    Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else.

    But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game.

    I hear from a lot of 550 Chasm users that they hate what he's done to the game and how they feel forced to use him.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,746 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @killahKlown said:

    @Borstock said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @BriMan2222 said:
    Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.

    @Borstock said:
    Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.

    Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!

    Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else.

    But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game.

    I hear from a lot of 550 Chasm users that they hate what he's done to the game and how they feel forced to use him.

    I will accept your word that there may be more dissent at those heights than I am aware of.

    I also understand that someone who hoarded for 1-2 years to max champ the latest and greatest might be FURIOUS to see that meta nerfed into the useless pile. And I don't want that. I have never called for a nerf before. Not with Bishop, Polaris, WorthyCap, Gambit, or anybody... (slightest possibility I wanted iHulk nerfed before I understood him better, I don't remember).

    But they need to calm Chasm down. If they don't want to nerf him, he needs a legit HARD counter.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    Fixing the Silver Surfer Black Hole TU would help. I run Chasm in non-iHulk teams and am often swimming in TU ap. I think Silver Surfer and the potential of mThor/Riri shows that they are working on non-nerf solutions.

  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,210 Chairperson of the Boards

    Personally I've been using Apoc/ Bobby / Jane in simulator to counter this team.

    Go for blue first as if Jane's passive targets the CDs, it will stun the enemy team. Enough Blue and you can stun lock a team easily.
    Throw a Apoc Yellow on the board, Bobby Green and save up black for the instant nuke.

    Team works surprisingly well.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @Sekilicious said:
    Fixing the Silver Surfer Black Hole TU would help. I run Chasm in non-iHulk teams and am often swimming in TU ap. I think Silver Surfer and the potential of mThor/Riri shows that they are working on non-nerf solutions.

    I thought Surfer was a worthy attempt but it isn't reliable enough. And too expensive to be that unreliable

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    There are plenty of viable pick-3 solutions. We need a realistic pick-2 option. You can do it with the boost list semi-reliably as long as you have somebody decent boosted. But if the boost week is soft, you're kind of in trouble in normal PVP. And yes, if you are somebody saying "these teams are easy. But also I never push to 1200" then I don't think your opinion is adding a ton to the conversation, because above 900 it's Big Chasms pretty much exclusively even if below that amount you have diversity.

  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2022

    @Borstock said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @BriMan2222 said:
    Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.

    @Borstock said:
    Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.

    Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!

    Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else.

    But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game.

    Since I don't have 550's my opinion that this is another meta has no merit?

    100% chasm/ihulk is harder to hit than colossus/Wanda.

    However, same thing happened when colossus/Wanda was the A team it was run (at least on final climb) over all the lower B team boosted characters.

    If the boosted characters are good then they are run. Just as all the Qs were mthor/colossus last bunch of PvP.

    We get the same Qs. It's just chasm is a harder team so you've forgotten what Qs were like before the Chasm.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Every year, we have a couple new flavours that players want nerfed.

    2018: Gambit
    2019: Bishop / WorthyCap
    2020: Hulkokoye ; Britty
    2021: Wanda/Colossus

    As history has proven, we've weathered through all these meta without those 5* being nerfed since 2020.

    The flavour of 2022 happens to be Hulk/Chasm. There are already counters (+ boosted 5*) around them but those counters are not good enough for those with higher/more stringent requirements.

    Come mid 2023, we'll have another new nerf thread, probably targeted at Dr Thor and her new partner, after Chasm/Hulk are countered "effectively".

  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Every year, we have a couple new flavours that players want nerfed.

    2018: Gambit
    2019: Bishop / WorthyCap
    2020: Hulkokoye ; Britty
    2021: Wanda/Colossus

    As history has proven, we've weathered through all these meta without those 5* being nerfed since 2020.

    The flavour of 2022 happens to be Hulk/Chasm. There are already counters (+ boosted 5*) around them but those counters are not good enough for those with higher/more stringent requirements.

    Come mid 2023, we'll have another new nerf thread, probably targeted at Dr Thor and her new partner, after Chasm/Hulk are countered "effectively".

    My thoughts exactly. That and I just walked up from ~100ish in Black Panther event and got my 1200 in less than 2 hours left in event. My Chasm/iHulk is 486/480 and I mirror matched from 600’s to 1000 or so.

    Not really difficult or terribly difficult when you get the hang of the cycle of reviving your own Chasm to take out the other one. It’s all timing and after a few matches you just catch on to the one trick this pony provides.

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