@Daredevil217 said: @Sekilicious said: This is the third boost list in a row where Chasm + iHulk were minor on the queue list in Pick-2 PvP. Baby champed MMR of course. I remember Ronan was considered DoA but he seems to be effective when boosted at least. I’m glad the boost list seems to be an effective counter to the immortal bros, occasionally at least. Definitely not true for me. I guess it depends how high you climb and when but I was in slice 1 and it was all chasm/hulk as far as the eye could see past maybe 900. I tried running Ronan/Sersi megaboosted and was getting hammered left and right. Used so many health packs. Once I switched to Hulkasm myself I got hit twice (once was a +12 defensive win) and I easily hit 1200. I also started hitting those mega-boosted toons myself if I was lucky enough to see them in a sea of Chas. I miss the old meta that changed week to week and feel that if one character is making other REALLY GOOD characters obsolete even with 110 extra levels, that’s not good game balance. Whether you find Chasm himself fun or unfun, fast or slow. I’ll likely ask the devs thoughts on this next Q/A.
@Daredevil217 said:
@Sekilicious said: This is the third boost list in a row where Chasm + iHulk were minor on the queue list in Pick-2 PvP. Baby champed MMR of course. I remember Ronan was considered DoA but he seems to be effective when boosted at least. I’m glad the boost list seems to be an effective counter to the immortal bros, occasionally at least.
Definitely not true for me. I guess it depends how high you climb and when but I was in slice 1 and it was all chasm/hulk as far as the eye could see past maybe 900. I tried running Ronan/Sersi megaboosted and was getting hammered left and right. Used so many health packs. Once I switched to Hulkasm myself I got hit twice (once was a +12 defensive win) and I easily hit 1200. I also started hitting those mega-boosted toons myself if I was lucky enough to see them in a sea of Chas.
I miss the old meta that changed week to week and feel that if one character is making other REALLY GOOD characters obsolete even with 110 extra levels, that’s not good game balance. Whether you find Chasm himself fun or unfun, fast or slow. I’ll likely ask the devs thoughts on this next Q/A.
Same exact thing happened before chasm with Wanda/Colossus.
@acescracked said: @Daredevil217 said: @Sekilicious said: This is the third boost list in a row where Chasm + iHulk were minor on the queue list in Pick-2 PvP. Baby champed MMR of course. I remember Ronan was considered DoA but he seems to be effective when boosted at least. I’m glad the boost list seems to be an effective counter to the immortal bros, occasionally at least. Definitely not true for me. I guess it depends how high you climb and when but I was in slice 1 and it was all chasm/hulk as far as the eye could see past maybe 900. I tried running Ronan/Sersi megaboosted and was getting hammered left and right. Used so many health packs. Once I switched to Hulkasm myself I got hit twice (once was a +12 defensive win) and I easily hit 1200. I also started hitting those mega-boosted toons myself if I was lucky enough to see them in a sea of Chas. I miss the old meta that changed week to week and feel that if one character is making other REALLY GOOD characters obsolete even with 110 extra levels, that’s not good game balance. Whether you find Chasm himself fun or unfun, fast or slow. I’ll likely ask the devs thoughts on this next Q/A. Same exact thing happened before chasm with Wanda/Colossus.
@acescracked said:
This is unfortunate but true. Same as with every Meta that has come before. Inevitably we have many years of data and patterns to support this.
Hulkoye BRB/Kitty StunBros Panthos Gambolt Even Logan/Jean to a lesser extent (but everything was lesser in those days)
I mean, when something catches on in this game, it really catches on. And they are always seen through the same lens: as a problem.
But, hey, we made it through together.
The meta will shift. Let’s not always request nerfs just to realize they need to be unnerfed years later.
I'm ok beating chahulk. Actually many times I've defeated already a 550 chasm with SW and Crystal taking low damage. However I can see that it hurts points pool. Nobody really climbs too much and shielding with 700 points many times I've been T50. So a lot of pvps I'm not taking the effort to win to 1200.
Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.
Now it's all chasm/ihulk unless there's a stellar boost list like jane and collosus being boosted at the same time. Ronan is a beast when boosted and past weeks he's been boosted he's been the meta, but in Namor pvp I barely saw Ronan at all, it was all hulkchasm wall to wall.
I did find that boosted Ronan was good for dealing with them though. Apoc/Ronan worked well against the chasm/ihulk teams for me. Since yellow and blue are no ones strongest color chasm doesn't drain them. So use boosts for y/r, b/p, and all color boost. Get apoc yellow out then chase blue. Once your able to fire Ronan cheap blue a few times the board is flooded with repeaters so hulk doesn't go off and then match one of the repeater tiles and boosted by apoc it pretty much kills the whole team at once.
Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.
@BriMan2222 said: Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad. @Borstock said: Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.
@BriMan2222 said: Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad.
@Borstock said: Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect.
Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!
@Daredevil217 said: @BriMan2222 said: Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad. @Borstock said: Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect. Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this!
Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else.
But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game.
I'm curious how many 550 there are in this thread. As a baby champed 5* player, I don't think Chasm/iHulk is that intimidating once you gained enough experience beating them. I think the "fear" has been greatly exaggerated, which is not a bad thing because those players inflicted with fear skip them, which then caused them to give delicious points for players who don't mind challenging them and beating them. Even if you happen to lose, you lose <5 points.
I don't know how many are in this thread, but I just climbed with a non-ChaHulk team, from 800-1200, and this is my current queue:
Chasm/Hulk 518/469 550/527 550/550 490/454 550/468 - hit me 4 times 550/493 453/455 550/473 - hit me 5 times and one 550/550 - ColWanda
That's all I have as current options. Now, maybe I should play in a different slice, where points will be harder to come by, but maybe the MMR is better. But I can choose to strike 9 teams right now. NONE of them are using a boosted 5*. If the people in this thread saying the ChaHulk meta isn't so bad are to be believed, I should just have a field day and wreck all these teams, right? Climb all the way into the top 10 on these arrogant players staying out, unshielded, thinking they have the perfect scarecrow. That's what all the players saying "it only takes 1 health pack every other match" are doing, right? You're going after these teams? If you opened up your play history, you're feasting on the easy to defeat ChaHulk meta, right? You're not using that meta to destroy people not using it?
And those teams are only scarecrows, right? They aren't being hit because the match takes too long? When those players want to climb, they switch to the boosted 5* teams, right?
This is the worst meta this game has ever had.
Slices joined do play a part. Slice 1 will give you a better selection, compared to other slices. And looking at your enemy teams, are you a 550 or high 5xx player?
@HoundofShadow said: Slices joined do play a part. Slice 1 will give you a better selection, compared to other slices. And looking at your enemy teams, are you a 550 or high 5xx player?
A 516 Apocalypse and 515 Okoye are my highest.
Mind you, I don't object to having to face 550 teams. I used to attack 550 teams all the time. I'd win some. I'd lose some. I can live with that. They have a stronger roster. They should beat me some of the time. And I have a 480 Chasm myself. This meta is just a nightmare.
At first a chahulk team rewarded 75 points. However it's not the case anymore, now it's no more than 50 due to points scarcity. So you will face a long battle for to earn just 50 points. It has some resemblance with the present inflation: it's needed more work for having less. The points scarcity are due to players not wanting to face chahulk teams. The hulkoye team meta was awful and was health pack deterrent however it was thrilling and if everything was running ok, it was fast. Chahulk meta is health pack consuming but is slow as many times is just about killing ihulk 3 times if there is no AP and a good setting for AoE. New character riri could be capable of defeating them easily with SW help, still chasm will grant the always slow battle.
It remains to be seen if New Riri is actually viable. I've tried using Sersi or 5Witch and it can take several turns to get 3 purple. Maybe the charge tile stuff can overcome that. I remain more interested in a real, meaningful counter team than a nerf, so I hope that's true.
@Borstock said: @Daredevil217 said: @BriMan2222 said: Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad. @Borstock said: Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect. Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this! Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else. But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game.
@Borstock said:
I hear from a lot of 550 Chasm users that they hate what he's done to the game and how they feel forced to use him.
@killahKlown said: @Borstock said: @Daredevil217 said: @BriMan2222 said: Maybe before mega 5 star boosts, but I almost never saw wanda/collosus in pvp unless the boost list for the week was really bad. @Borstock said: Once they introduced the 5* boosteds, there was no meta where you could just leave the team out and expect to not get hit. Not ColWanda, not anyone. The only players who could do that were the 550 whales and even they couldn't do it if the boosted list was strong enough. So, that's just incorrect. Shhh… we don’t talk about the time it was actually diverse and a large majority of peoples’ rosters were being used. It was always like this and will always be like this! Chasm has absolutely DESTROYED the diversity in PvP. You hit 800, ChaHulk is all you see. If you DARE to try to climb with any other team, you are instantly attacked by anyone and everyone looking for something else to hit besides a ChaHulk team. And you stand out, because no one is using anything else. But hey, the 550's in this thread really don't want Chasm nerfed, so they're going to give you all the reasons why "everything's fine" and "this is just the next meta". But this is, BY FAR, the strongest meta this game has ever had, and it was introduced at a time when there was actual diversity in the game. I hear from a lot of 550 Chasm users that they hate what he's done to the game and how they feel forced to use him.
@killahKlown said:
I will accept your word that there may be more dissent at those heights than I am aware of.
I also understand that someone who hoarded for 1-2 years to max champ the latest and greatest might be FURIOUS to see that meta nerfed into the useless pile. And I don't want that. I have never called for a nerf before. Not with Bishop, Polaris, WorthyCap, Gambit, or anybody... (slightest possibility I wanted iHulk nerfed before I understood him better, I don't remember).
But they need to calm Chasm down. If they don't want to nerf him, he needs a legit HARD counter.
Fixing the Silver Surfer Black Hole TU would help. I run Chasm in non-iHulk teams and am often swimming in TU ap. I think Silver Surfer and the potential of mThor/Riri shows that they are working on non-nerf solutions.
Personally I've been using Apoc/ Bobby / Jane in simulator to counter this team.
Go for blue first as if Jane's passive targets the CDs, it will stun the enemy team. Enough Blue and you can stun lock a team easily. Throw a Apoc Yellow on the board, Bobby Green and save up black for the instant nuke.
Team works surprisingly well.
@Sekilicious said: Fixing the Silver Surfer Black Hole TU would help. I run Chasm in non-iHulk teams and am often swimming in TU ap. I think Silver Surfer and the potential of mThor/Riri shows that they are working on non-nerf solutions.
I thought Surfer was a worthy attempt but it isn't reliable enough. And too expensive to be that unreliable
There are plenty of viable pick-3 solutions. We need a realistic pick-2 option. You can do it with the boost list semi-reliably as long as you have somebody decent boosted. But if the boost week is soft, you're kind of in trouble in normal PVP. And yes, if you are somebody saying "these teams are easy. But also I never push to 1200" then I don't think your opinion is adding a ton to the conversation, because above 900 it's Big Chasms pretty much exclusively even if below that amount you have diversity.
My Chasm is at 540, but I am definitely sympathetic to the frustrations about the immortal meta and have wasted plenty of time in seemingly never-ending mirror matches.
For me, there’s a system to beating Chasm/iHulk in mirror matches. Your Chasm has to go into the match with a health deficit of about 50K from the opposing Chasm. (The deficit scales depending on the level of your Chasm.) From there, target Chasm first. You’ll knock off a good chunk of his health after the initial stun. You want the other Chasm to have 10 to 15k higher health when your Chasm dies and clears Abyss tiles, so that you can single match damage the other Chasm before Abyss tiles reappear. I also run my Chasm at 4/4/5, since I prefer the additional control of match damage versus the unpredictability of his passive damage boost.
If your Chasm has higher health, just beat up on iHulk until your Chasm’s health hits the 10-15K deficit range.
It’s not perfect. Simultaneous Chasm death/revivals are a thing and then you have to start over. On occasion and with increasingly less frequency, I miscalculate and the other Chasm dies first and one shots mine and I lose.
In BP’s PVP, I had 2 losses and 36 wins in strictly mirror matches, so it works! Also, Devs please never nerf Chasm!