How satisfied are you with the current pace of 5* character release ?

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  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2020
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    @KGB

    You are right, it’s HP & CP (though HP is probably more needed for roster space). I do punch up to 8 on some of the easier events, but tile movers still get me and extend my clear times. IP is a good example of where I sometimes struggle (mostly on the later days). Once I bust my hoard, I hope I’ll have America covered to team up with Karnak, so hopefully that will help.

    I’m guessing between them, Juggs & Grocket as well as max champing Thanos & Strange most SCL 8 is pretty doable?

    Edit: Also, the sub placements usually get me more HP than lower placement in SCL 8, right? I also use Carbusa on some of the more difficult nodes.
  • Jormagund
    Jormagund Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
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    krakenoon said:
    @KGB

    Once I bust my hoard, I hope I’ll have America covered to team up with Karnak, so hopefully that will help.

    I’m guessing between them, Juggs & Grocket as well as max champing Thanos & Strange most SCL 8 is pretty doable?

    I tend to play Grockernaut + essential/Gamora/Nico or Karnak/Chavez + essential/boosted dependant upon the node.  I am levelling my four stars before putting levels into fives and rarely use any of the fives unless they are the 5E or have the new character boost.  Therefore I predominantly use four stars.
    My levels/supports are Chavez 289 with three star Atlantis, Karnak 287 with three star Kimono, Grocket 282 with two star Avengers tower & Juggs 280 with three star Hope.  I need a better support for Grocket but with these teams I can do SCL8 fairly easily and also SCL 9 with the only challenge usually being the 5E node.  I tend to stick to SCL 8 for some of the tougher PVEs but mainly play 9 and have even jumped up to 10 with a good boost list/easy event.
    I'll still dust off Strange occasionally but considering 6 months ago I was using him in pretty much every node it's now very rare.  I never used Thanos as I don't like the self damage but Grockernaut fills this gap for me.
    Getting those four characters covered and applying the right supports should immediately make SCL8 easy.

  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
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    I’m basically at the mercy of RNG for covering G4amora and Nico. G4mora is at 2/1/1 with shards for another cover and Nico is in limbo with enough shards for a cover. G4mora only gets 2 more covers for 3* champ until the flip, so... yeah
  • Jormagund
    Jormagund Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
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    I use Gamora because in my opinion she's the best Guardian if you have terrible luck and they wipe your strikes.  However any Guardian will do as in 99.9% of the matches you only need the boost any Guardian gives to Rocket's strikes.  Still worth chasing her fairly soon as she seems to be essential for the SCL10 stunlock team with Coulson/Worthy & 5*Hawkeye.  (Not that my Hawkeye has the right covers to let me use these teams.)
    I use Nico as she boosts more than my 256 1/1/0 Kitty and I prefer her boost condition of just having to have more of a specific SAP tile to Kitty's absolute limit.  Any other character, such as Hellcat with reliable SAP boosting should work on the team.
    Also I prefer using a tile booster rather than a guardian in case I lose specials when facing tile-movers but this probably happens in less than <10% of matches so you could just stick to using Grockernaut/guardian if this suits your gameplay.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,946 Chairperson of the Boards
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    krakenoon said:
    @KGB

    You are right, it’s HP & CP (though HP is probably more needed for roster space). I do punch up to 8 on some of the easier events, but tile movers still get me and extend my clear times. IP is a good example of where I sometimes struggle (mostly on the later days). Once I bust my hoard, I hope I’ll have America covered to team up with Karnak, so hopefully that will help.

    I’m guessing between them, Juggs & Grocket as well as max champing Thanos & Strange most SCL 8 is pretty doable?

    As Jorgamund said, any Guardian will do with Grocket. 3* Gamora may be hot garbage on her own but her Red does impressive damage when paired with Grockets strikes esp since it only costs 6 Red. You should be able to do CL8 with Grocket/Juggs and 3* Gamora. The 5E node can be tricky especially in tougher PvE events like Simulator when you have a 1-3 covered 5* and none of your 4* are boosted (Juggs doesn't work well with 5* since they tend to tank over him).

    KGB

  • helix72
    helix72 Posts: 992 Critical Contributor
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    I think I figured out his logic. He’s saying it takes 2275 CP to get 91 pulls. With one in 7 being a 5*, you’d expect 13 5* covers. The assumption baked in is that you will get equal distribution of covers. This is where the logic is flawed-drawing 13 covers is not the same as covering the character. You are actually more likely to need more than 13 covers to get to get to 5/5/3, 5/3/5, 3/5/5, 5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5 than you are to need exactly 13. I ran a bunch of simulations on this a while back, I’ll dig out the actual expected number and post it later.

    And the above is really only relevant if you had only one 5* character per vault. At the least, we have 3. I can run some sims to see how many pulls it takes to champ 3.
  • krakenoon
    krakenoon Posts: 355 Mover and Shaker
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    I always use 3* Gamora with the Grockernaut, so that’s not an issue. Her 4* is probably the premiere stunner in 4* land, which I definitely need more of. That said, I feel there’s more value in getting the America/Karnak team going (for essential nodes) and I’m guessing Valkyrie will be more useful when I need specific AP generation. G4mora is definitely on my radar though and I think I might lean a little more toward Hellcat than Nico for boosting since I should be able to get her covered a bit easier.

    Sorry, this thread is getting more off topic. Any additional advice should probably be redirected to the thread I started in the roster help section. As of now I’m thinking, 1 cover on Grocket (mainly for HPs), then 6 for America, maybe G4mora after. Does G4mora create 2 tiles when she stuns 2 enemies?
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 713 Critical Contributor
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    helix72 said:
    I think I figured out his logic. He’s saying it takes 2275 CP to get 91 pulls. With one in 7 being a 5*, you’d expect 13 5* covers. The assumption baked in is that you will get equal distribution of covers. This is where the logic is flawed-drawing 13 covers is not the same as covering the character. You are actually more likely to need more than 13 covers to get to get to 5/5/3, 5/3/5, 3/5/5, 5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5 than you are to need exactly 13. I ran a bunch of simulations on this a while back, I’ll dig out the actual expected number and post it later.

    And the above is really only relevant if you had only one 5* character per vault. At the least, we have 3. I can run some sims to see how many pulls it takes to champ 3.

    He also wrote that you need that number per release. I mean that it works like that:

    We have 5* X, Y and Z in LL. 5* A enters LL, X is out. You pull untill you get 13 Any 5* covers for Y, Z and A.4

    ~4 weeks 5* B enters LL,, Y iz out. You again pull 13 5* covers but this time for Z, A and B.

    Another ~4weeks later 58 C enters LL, Z is out. Yet another 13 5* covers. this time for A, B, C.

    With that, and even distribution, you get 4+4+5 = 13 covers for every character. BUT you need that 2275 CP/91 Pulls every 4 weeks. Or 6825 CP in 12 weeks. Either, still it is 81,25 CP/Day. Way more than 50 CP.
  • Xair
    Xair Posts: 77 Match Maker
    edited June 2020
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    Mr_F said:
    helix72 said:
    I think I figured out his logic. He’s saying it takes 2275 CP to get 91 pulls. With one in 7 being a 5*, you’d expect 13 5* covers. The assumption baked in is that you will get equal distribution of covers. This is where the logic is flawed-drawing 13 covers is not the same as covering the character. You are actually more likely to need more than 13 covers to get to get to 5/5/3, 5/3/5, 3/5/5, 5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5 than you are to need exactly 13. I ran a bunch of simulations on this a while back, I’ll dig out the actual expected number and post it later.

    And the above is really only relevant if you had only one 5* character per vault. At the least, we have 3. I can run some sims to see how many pulls it takes to champ 3.

    He also wrote that you need that number per release. I mean that it works like that:

    We have 5* X, Y and Z in LL. 5* A enters LL, X is out. You pull untill you get 13 Any 5* covers for Y, Z and A.4

    ~4 weeks 5* B enters LL,, Y iz out. You again pull 13 5* covers but this time for Z, A and B.

    Another ~4weeks later 58 C enters LL, Z is out. Yet another 13 5* covers. this time for A, B, C.

    With that, and even distribution, you get 4+4+5 = 13 covers for every character. BUT you need that 2275 CP/91 Pulls every 4 weeks. Or 6825 CP in 12 weeks. Either, still it is 81,25 CP/Day. Way more than 50 CP.
    yea, but not every 4 weeks, every 84 days. the time each 5* spends in LL, meaning u got enough cp.

    u need to think at it like this:
    how much do i actually pay for each 5* to get to champion.
    not how much would it theoretically cost to get a specific 5* to champion.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 713 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2020
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    Xair said:
    Mr_F said:
    helix72 said:
    I think I figured out his logic. He’s saying it takes 2275 CP to get 91 pulls. With one in 7 being a 5*, you’d expect 13 5* covers. The assumption baked in is that you will get equal distribution of covers. This is where the logic is flawed-drawing 13 covers is not the same as covering the character. You are actually more likely to need more than 13 covers to get to get to 5/5/3, 5/3/5, 3/5/5, 5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5 than you are to need exactly 13. I ran a bunch of simulations on this a while back, I’ll dig out the actual expected number and post it later.

    And the above is really only relevant if you had only one 5* character per vault. At the least, we have 3. I can run some sims to see how many pulls it takes to champ 3.

    He also wrote that you need that number per release. I mean that it works like that:

    We have 5* X, Y and Z in LL. 5* A enters LL, X is out. You pull untill you get 13 Any 5* covers for Y, Z and A.4

    ~4 weeks 5* B enters LL,, Y iz out. You again pull 13 5* covers but this time for Z, A and B.

    Another ~4weeks later 58 C enters LL, Z is out. Yet another 13 5* covers. this time for A, B, C.

    With that, and even distribution, you get 4+4+5 = 13 covers for every character. BUT you need that 2275 CP/91 Pulls every 4 weeks. Or 6825 CP in 12 weeks. Either, still it is 81,25 CP/Day. Way more than 50 CP.
    yea, but not every 4 weeks, every 84 days. the time each 5* spends in LL, meaning u got enough cp.

    u need to think at it like this:
    how much do i actually pay for each 5* to get to champion.
    not how much would it theoretically cost to get a specific 5* to champion.

    Ok. I went through your posts, and yes I missread them. You are right, the cycle is 12 weeks and that is 6825 cp on average. We agree to that. But as mention before, you cannot divide by 3. 6825 is ON AVERAGE just enough to get 39 5* covers.

    ON AVERAGE. It can be 16 covers for A, 9 for B and 14 for C. Or whatever. With my LT pulls I got 4 Professor, 4 Storms, 3 Havoks, 3 BRB, 2 Apocs and 1 IH. So Far ZERO Yelena, ZERO Sinisters, ZERO Iceman. Yes my pulls numbers are low but it shows the problem with "on average", cause on average i got 1,7 cover for nine 5*. I wish i could write to support and get swap with one Apoc for one Yelena.

    39 covers. Not 13 per character. its 39 for 3 of them in total.

    Yes, IF you have 100 LT, then you need 4325 CP which is 51 CP/Day - and you said 50.

    BUT.

    This is still ON AVERAGE to get 39 5* covers. With EVEN distribution. Go to YT and see how biggest YT of MPQ got that with 100 LT. He BARELY gets there. And he is top 10 PVE SCL 9/10 dude. He has EVERY character champed and is getting hundreds of CP and tons of LT from Champion levels.

    If you play SCL 9 in PVP and PVE, with no 5e, then you get: daily 2CP from DDQ, 2 from nodes; 30 per event, PVP is 24/week. That is total of 1320 in 12 weeks. 3,3 k below the limit with 100 LT.

    NOW you get? 3,3k CP from other sources. 5e. Placement. Champion rewards.

    Once again. ON AVERAGE.

    That is why we say current pace is too high. And that is why 50cp/ day is not high enough. You HAVE to be veteran to be able to win the chase.
  • Xair
    Xair Posts: 77 Match Maker
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    do u know what average means?
    it means that half of the players get better than that.
    it's a bell shape normal curve, around 70% of players get very close to average results, and less than 1% of players are so unlucky that they can't make up for it by putting a little extra effort.
    now, i wouldn't contend with anyone who complained about no bad luck protection, in fact i think it is needed. but putting extreme bad luck aside the majority of the player base are able to get all recent 5* champed by focusing on  just scl9 to completion every story.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,645 Chairperson of the Boards
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    How many players make up 50% of SCL9?
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 713 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2020
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    Xair said:
    do u know what average means?
    it means that half of the players get better than that.
    it's a bell shape normal curve, around 70% of players get very close to average results, and less than 1% of players are so unlucky that they can't make up for it by putting a little extra effort.
    now, i wouldn't contend with anyone who complained about no bad luck protection, in fact i think it is needed. but putting extreme bad luck aside the majority of the player base are able to get all recent 5* champed by focusing on  just scl9 to completion every story.


    Dude it means that in every 12 weeks cycle whoever pulls 273 times will have 50% to get 39 5* covers. Not three 5* champions. It means that 50% will get less than 39 covers and 50% will get more. On average, 50% of players will get at least 39 5* covers with 273 pulls. It means that the rest will not.
    And we are speaking about getting ALL them as champions. 273 pulls is on AVERAGE BARE MINIMUM. To have better chances you HAVE TO pull more.
    How many? I dunno. Judging from what people kept saying, 300 or 350 pulls are needed. With 350 pulls, wou have 50 covers (again on average - there are poeple who reports 50+ pulls with no 5*). So % of players who will champion all three 5* is bigger than 50%
    Also, as I said before, just playing SCL9 with all nodes minus 5E, 2 PVE events/Week, 3 for PVP, doing DDQ will give you 3,3k CP les than needed bare minimum. Assuming you will accumulate 100 LL Tokens. You need, in 12 weeks, from 5e nodes, daily rewards, champion rewards ect on average get 15,77CP. Extra. You need deep champion 4*, 5* champion, high placement, good alliance ect. for that.
    Also... majoriy of players can not do that cause, they do not play SCL 9 (due to their roster being to weak or beaing to low in lv), have no enough champion rewards ect. I myself am such player. I watch the YT Guy and I can tell you: it takes time and a lot of resources to do what he do. He can do that because either he spends/gets a  lot of money or is a long time veteran. I have zero 5* champions and 15 4* champions. And many players are not even that far as I am.
    Even if we take into consideration only players who can in theory do that, still I doubt they are majority of player's base.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,316 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    How many players make up 50% of SCL9?
    For the just ending The Hunt, there were 11 full brackets just before slice 1 ended, so that's 11K players in 9.  Add in the various partially filled brackets and late joiners and it's maybe 2500 to 3000 more, maybe?  That means about 13-14K people who joined.

    The bell curve for MPQ is a bit weird as the majority players barely play any nodes, let alone hitting progression.  There are probably a bunch of alt accounts, and most people aren't as crazy into the game and are happy hitting the 4* cover or just play a little when they have 15 minutes or whatever.

    I might estimate that about up to 250 per bracket hit SCL9 progression.  So maybe somewhere around 2800 SCL9 players from this event will hit full progression.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,645 Chairperson of the Boards
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    bluewolf said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    How many players make up 50% of SCL9?
    For the just ending The Hunt, there were 11 full brackets just before slice 1 ended, so that's 11K players in 9.  Add in the various partially filled brackets and late joiners and it's maybe 2500 to 3000 more, maybe?  That means about 13-14K people who joined.

    The bell curve for MPQ is a bit weird as the majority players barely play any nodes, let alone hitting progression.  There are probably a bunch of alt accounts, and most people aren't as crazy into the game and are happy hitting the 4* cover or just play a little when they have 15 minutes or whatever.

    I might estimate that about up to 250 per bracket hit SCL9 progression.  So maybe somewhere around 2800 SCL9 players from this event will hit full progression.

    So full progression players are not an average at all then, they are in fact way above average. The majority of the playerbase can't get anywhere near this required CP.
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 713 Critical Contributor
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    Not to mention that sometimes players lower their SCL based on the event. I recently was playing SCL8. Doable but time investment is not worth the rewards so I go back to SCL 7. Some SCL9 players may do same/similar. For example, for Simulator or heavy Mindles Ones events.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    People need to realise the majority of players have no intention of champing all characters or "catch up". Some of them just want to play a few nodes here and there for leisure. Some just want to play with their favourite characters. MPQ is not a serious business for them because they prefer to spend more time on other activities. These are also the groups of players who are unlikely to come to the forum. 

    The group of players that go to game forums are usually those who are serious about improving their gameplays and want to learn how to progress quickly or get "stronger". 

    As you can see, the % of casual players are much higher than your serious players. People can keep on talking about how new players can never champ a 5* without dumping many thousand dollars into the game. However, in the first place, how sure are you that this is their goal? 
  • Xair
    Xair Posts: 77 Match Maker
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    finally my point was only that an end game player, which i recognize as a player that plays at least scl9 story to completion, is able to get every recent 5* to champion level.
    i can attest from my anecdotal point of view, that once i started completing scl9 i was able to champ every recent 5*. and by now i have to wait around a months with LL token purchases because i am able to champion recents much faster.
    asking to slow down the releases of new 5*,  means that i would need to sit on my accumulating cp and LL tokens for months at a time, making my game experience much duller. not being able to advance my roster because i need to save my tokens for the next char in line.
    from my perspective (with only nine 5* champions) the game is slow enough as it is.

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