Halleck said: [...] Within the broad spectrum of competitive to casual players, anyone with finite leisure time values speed to some extent.
Taganov said: Nerfs, though, are a nuclear option. Scorched earth. No one wins. D3 have never, not once, nerfed a character and have it retain any relevance. In case ya'll forgot: Ragnarok, Sentry, Wolverine 4, Wolverine 5, Gambit. I'm sure there were others, but the forum tears were especially salty for those.
jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory.
For people saying "don't nerf anyone", remember that it is possible to nerf a character without even changing its stats. The developers even have form for doing this.
Way back when there were only a few 4* characters in the game, the developers did a massive rebalance that touched almost every character in the game. Everyone whose health was adjusted got an increase. It took a while to sort through the list of changed characters to find out who'd been left behind. In effect, they'd done a stealth nerf of 2* Storm, and all the Daken and Wolverine variants. Some of the Wolverine variants got a boost later on, but you can still see the effects today.
Jacklag said: Taganov said: Nerfs, though, are a nuclear option. Scorched earth. No one wins. D3 have never, not once, nerfed a character and have it retain any relevance. In case ya'll forgot: Ragnarok, Sentry, Wolverine 4, Wolverine 5, Gambit. I'm sure there were others, but the forum tears were especially salty for those. I'm sorry to interject on a comment that I mostly agree with (nerfs are bad and should be considered only in the last case scenario) but I think you are confusing relevant with meta.Aside from Sentry, Ragnarok, Wolverine 4, Wolverine 5 and Gambit all have their uses They may not be the top characters in their tiers, but they each have a partner that allows them to shine: Ragnarok+Riri, XFWolverine+XFDeadpool, OML+a yellow battery, BlackBolt+Gambit. And I think that is the point of balance, when a character is not great by himself but becomes great with a few specific allies. That, I think, is the case for Hammercap, 5*Thor, and 4*GRocket, but it's not the case for Bishop.
jamesh said: For people saying "don't nerf anyone", remember that it is possible to nerf a character without even changing its stats. The developers even have form for doing this.Way back when there were only a few 4* characters in the game, the developers did a massive rebalance that touched almost every character in the game. Everyone whose health was adjusted got an increase. It took a while to sort through the list of changed characters to find out who'd been left behind. In effect, they'd done a stealth nerf of 2* Storm, and all the Daken and Wolverine variants. Some of the Wolverine variants got a boost later on, but you can still see the effects today.
BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory. I can only assume you are in 4 star land because as a 5 star player Bishop is a monster by himself. I don't care about his partners, when I skip a bishop team it is because of bishop not his partners. With my 5 star team I can't so much as match 3 without him jumping in front, doing double the damage, gaining ap and then stun locking my team.Hammer cap is a pain too but he needs Hawkeye. Bishop is a pain by himself, not because "he has one or 2 good partners". Who he is partnered with is irrelevant to me because HE IS THE PROBLEM.
bluewolf said: jamesh said: For people saying "don't nerf anyone", remember that it is possible to nerf a character without even changing its stats. The developers even have form for doing this.Way back when there were only a few 4* characters in the game, the developers did a massive rebalance that touched almost every character in the game. Everyone whose health was adjusted got an increase. It took a while to sort through the list of changed characters to find out who'd been left behind. In effect, they'd done a stealth nerf of 2* Storm, and all the Daken and Wolverine variants. Some of the Wolverine variants got a boost later on, but you can still see the effects today. It's a 6 year old game and vastly different than it was. I'm not sure how many of the people working on the game back then even still work at Demiurge. Probably under 5.I think hoping for some broad, tier-wide readjustment of 5* health and match dmg is a fantasy. The fact is that they design 5's around their health and match dmg to some extent. One reason Carbage has such high health and match dmg is he has low attack tile and direct dmg numbers, so he has to stick around to be even a little effective and they decided to make his match dmg hit harder. It's their balance. If a character is slower on offense they often get more health and match dmg.That said of course there is match dmg creep; it's how you keep the top spenders invested in new 5's when they are rocking a slew of 550s. Match dmg is the primary basic passive power that all 5's have.Not to say some of the very old 5's shouldn't be improved...they should. But doing that will only effectively help very long term vets who already have them covered, or nearly covered, etc. Dilution is horrible, the vast majority of players will never open their wallets to cover a 5 from scratch, and shards mean you will be chasing every 5 you can't just pull in Latests for about a year or more - assuming you are starting with only a few covers.
jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory. I can only assume you are in 4 star land because as a 5 star player Bishop is a monster by himself. I don't care about his partners, when I skip a bishop team it is because of bishop not his partners. With my 5 star team I can't so much as match 3 without him jumping in front, doing double the damage, gaining ap and then stun locking my team.Hammer cap is a pain too but he needs Hawkeye. Bishop is a pain by himself, not because "he has one or 2 good partners". Who he is partnered with is irrelevant to me because HE IS THE PROBLEM. Actually I am a 5 star player. Take on Bishop teams all the time as well as HammerCap. They are more challenging but not impossible. If you stick Bishop in a Crash of the Titans he won’t pose much threat, thus “by himself” he isn’t very intimidating. The whole attitude of people can’t have differing opinions on Bishop without clearly being uninformed is getting quite old to be honest. You think he is OP, I don’t. Of course you think you are right...otherwise you wouldn’t have formed your opinion in the first place. That doesn’t make it a fact.
BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory. I can only assume you are in 4 star land because as a 5 star player Bishop is a monster by himself. I don't care about his partners, when I skip a bishop team it is because of bishop not his partners. With my 5 star team I can't so much as match 3 without him jumping in front, doing double the damage, gaining ap and then stun locking my team.Hammer cap is a pain too but he needs Hawkeye. Bishop is a pain by himself, not because "he has one or 2 good partners". Who he is partnered with is irrelevant to me because HE IS THE PROBLEM. Actually I am a 5 star player. Take on Bishop teams all the time as well as HammerCap. They are more challenging but not impossible. If you stick Bishop in a Crash of the Titans he won’t pose much threat, thus “by himself” he isn’t very intimidating. The whole attitude of people can’t have differing opinions on Bishop without clearly being uninformed is getting quite old to be honest. You think he is OP, I don’t. Of course you think you are right...otherwise you wouldn’t have formed your opinion in the first place. That doesn’t make it a fact. Of course if you throw bishop in a crash he won't be OP, Crash's are 4* vs 4*. I specifically said "He is a monster vs 5*" so saying he won't be that affective against another 4 star is irrelevant to my point.Bishop is only a problem when facing a 5 star opponent. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. A character should not shut down the entire tier above them.I'm on day 2174. In the 6 years I've been playing there have only been 2 characters so OP that having them on defense was basically just as good as being shielded in PVP. The first was Gambit and the second is BishopThey didn't allow Gambit to go on being a free shield saver and I very much doubt they will allow Bishop to keep doing it.
Godzillafan67 said: An important note: At 163 votes having been cast thus far, exactly zero of those are for "Balance is fine right now".
jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory. I can only assume you are in 4 star land because as a 5 star player Bishop is a monster by himself. I don't care about his partners, when I skip a bishop team it is because of bishop not his partners. With my 5 star team I can't so much as match 3 without him jumping in front, doing double the damage, gaining ap and then stun locking my team.Hammer cap is a pain too but he needs Hawkeye. Bishop is a pain by himself, not because "he has one or 2 good partners". Who he is partnered with is irrelevant to me because HE IS THE PROBLEM. Actually I am a 5 star player. Take on Bishop teams all the time as well as HammerCap. They are more challenging but not impossible. If you stick Bishop in a Crash of the Titans he won’t pose much threat, thus “by himself” he isn’t very intimidating. The whole attitude of people can’t have differing opinions on Bishop without clearly being uninformed is getting quite old to be honest. You think he is OP, I don’t. Of course you think you are right...otherwise you wouldn’t have formed your opinion in the first place. That doesn’t make it a fact. Of course if you throw bishop in a crash he won't be OP, Crash's are 4* vs 4*. I specifically said "He is a monster vs 5*" so saying he won't be that affective against another 4 star is irrelevant to my point.Bishop is only a problem when facing a 5 star opponent. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. A character should not shut down the entire tier above them.I'm on day 2174. In the 6 years I've been playing there have only been 2 characters so OP that having them on defense was basically just as good as being shielded in PVP. The first was Gambit and the second is BishopThey didn't allow Gambit to go on being a free shield saver and I very much doubt they will allow Bishop to keep doing it. “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”I’ll say this...having Bishop out on defense is not “as good as being shielded” but it is better than most other options. Second, I’ll take any Crash with a mid to top tier 5 against a solo Bishop and guarantee a win. He is nothing other than an annoyance without someone doing damage during the duration of his stun mechanic. So, IMO, he isn’t a good solo character...even though he is a great support character. Perhaps you have more 5s than I do, I’m not familiar with your roster. The fifteen I do have champed contain most of the top and second tier 5s. Maybe that is a factor. Or maybe I’m willing to look for different strategies, or use other teams besides my top three. In any case, in my experience, he isn’t nearly as much a problem as he is made out to be.
Godzillafan67 said: Godzillafan67 said: An important note: At 163 votes having been cast thus far, exactly zero of those are for "Balance is fine right now". 220 votes now. Still none for "balance is fine right now". Though I didn't mention it before, the voting ratio remains 4:1 in favor of buffing vs nerfing.
BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: BriMan2222 said: jp1 said: So, you think Bishop is great by himself then? He isn’t going to be much trouble unless he has one or two good partners.I think all 5s should be exceptional both solo and with a team. The endgame that takes years to achieve is underwhelming at times and that is what I call broken.Also OML is still not good even with a yellow battery. He would be an amazing 4* but he needs a buff to be taken serious in 5* territory. I can only assume you are in 4 star land because as a 5 star player Bishop is a monster by himself. I don't care about his partners, when I skip a bishop team it is because of bishop not his partners. With my 5 star team I can't so much as match 3 without him jumping in front, doing double the damage, gaining ap and then stun locking my team.Hammer cap is a pain too but he needs Hawkeye. Bishop is a pain by himself, not because "he has one or 2 good partners". Who he is partnered with is irrelevant to me because HE IS THE PROBLEM. Actually I am a 5 star player. Take on Bishop teams all the time as well as HammerCap. They are more challenging but not impossible. If you stick Bishop in a Crash of the Titans he won’t pose much threat, thus “by himself” he isn’t very intimidating. The whole attitude of people can’t have differing opinions on Bishop without clearly being uninformed is getting quite old to be honest. You think he is OP, I don’t. Of course you think you are right...otherwise you wouldn’t have formed your opinion in the first place. That doesn’t make it a fact. Of course if you throw bishop in a crash he won't be OP, Crash's are 4* vs 4*. I specifically said "He is a monster vs 5*" so saying he won't be that affective against another 4 star is irrelevant to my point.Bishop is only a problem when facing a 5 star opponent. It's been said before, but I'll say it again. A character should not shut down the entire tier above them.I'm on day 2174. In the 6 years I've been playing there have only been 2 characters so OP that having them on defense was basically just as good as being shielded in PVP. The first was Gambit and the second is BishopThey didn't allow Gambit to go on being a free shield saver and I very much doubt they will allow Bishop to keep doing it. “Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.”I’ll say this...having Bishop out on defense is not “as good as being shielded” but it is better than most other options. Second, I’ll take any Crash with a mid to top tier 5 against a solo Bishop and guarantee a win. He is nothing other than an annoyance without someone doing damage during the duration of his stun mechanic. So, IMO, he isn’t a good solo character...even though he is a great support character. Perhaps you have more 5s than I do, I’m not familiar with your roster. The fifteen I do have champed contain most of the top and second tier 5s. Maybe that is a factor. Or maybe I’m willing to look for different strategies, or use other teams besides my top three. In any case, in my experience, he isn’t nearly as much a problem as he is made out to be. As OJSP said, I have 9. Most of them older, only Meta one is a recently champed Thor but no Okoye. The only strategy that has worked somewhat well for me with Bishop is Thanos/Panther but it's very dependent on Panther being up front to get stunned and keeping thanos from being stunned until Panther returns from being stunned after 4 turns. Not easy to do.Maybe with your 15 Five star champs you have more options to work around Bishop and have found something that works, but with my options of just reaching 5 star land with my highest lvl 5 star at lvl 454, I've found Panthos to be best and that is not at all reliable. I can either skip, or drop down to using 4 stars to not trigger Bishop. I'm in five star land, I don't want to go back down to 4 star just like when I got into 4 star land I didn't want to keep using 2 and 3 stars.I'm on this forum, line, discord, and fb MPQ groups and I can tell you that no, it's not just my opinion. People constantly brag about how long they can go with no hits, minimal hits, or even defensive gains in pvp with no shields, just Bishop. If I had Bishop champed I'd give him a try myself.