Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

Basepuzzler

Some characters could use super soldier serum

HoundofShadow said:

By reducing the number of R4G's strike tiles but keeping the damage similar, wouldn't it be harder to match them away? It's 2/64 vs 7/64 chances of matching them. If players don't want Kitty ability to process immediately, the number has to be two because pairing her with another X-men reduces the number of tiles needed to 3.

Even if this happens, players will still find a way to get around this like pairing them with BRB (+4 protect tiles) or 4* Carnage (+ 2 or 3 attack tiles).

Annoying for sim still but irrelevant for pvp, where the majority of matches are played

A_Wise_Man

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

Godzillafan67 said:

When you buff the older 5*, I'd like to see Classic Tokens added as rewards.

Note: That's added and not replacing.

It just occurred to me, if we are going to add rewards anyway, why not abolish the latest/classic split?  If you buff rewards overall but put all the 5s in one store you could use your regular LTs for them.  You'd also earn more pulls for things like shards for favorites, and youd have a fighting chance at covering more 5 stars in general and adding levels rather than having them languish and die in classics.

HoundofShadow

Some characters could use super soldier serum

So, you want them to increase the odds from 1:7 to 1:1?

IMO, That's not going to happen, apart from special circumstance.

Chrynos1989

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

I wish I could choose both, but due to the crazy amount of chars, powering everyone up to the point they are useful is, to me, impossible.
there are a few chars that really are overpowered. I myself start climbing very early for sim and get hit in the 3 weeks perhaps like a dozen times but 10 of the hits are blues, due to the fact my bishop is already quite high in level, although far from 370

my only problem with nerfing is, that you dev guys tend to get a bit excessive when doing so
its like saying „hey we have a 30 year old kitchen, let’s get a new one“ and you guys actually tear down the house and rebuild it completly 😂
do slighter nerfs, like let bishop generate one less blue ap per tick and look how that works out. If it’s enough, good, if not you can always do another nerf

A_Wise_Man

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

HoundofShadow said:

So, you want them to increase the odds from 1:7 to 1:1?

IMO, That's not going to happen, apart from special circumstance.

No, same odds.  Everything in one store.  Increased tokens and cp in rewards, maybe 2 or 3 or 4 times the current rates.

helix72

Some characters could use super soldier serum

IMHO: only a couple of characters need a nerf to make them balanced, while many, many need a buff to make them useful. In addition, repeating what everyone else has said, and given what we've seen historically, it's much more likely we would get a successfully useful buff than a successfully appropriate nerf. As annoying as some of these God-mode characters are, I just don't want to see them go directly to trash tier, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

In terms of match damage, I personally like a scenario where match damage is like a "basic attack", which I don't think should be equal for each character simply based on level (or stars). 5* Thanos should have higher match damage than say 5* Wasp (he currently has less), but these differences would need to be considered (and balanced) in the context of their powers as well. Imagine if 5* The Hulk had starting match damage (when he's in Banner form) as really weak (bottom of the 5*'s), but as soon as he transforms his match damage becomes top tier (or destroys extra tiles, ala Wiccan). And make the transformation based on how much damage he or his team takes ('Don't make me angry-you wouldn't like me when I'm angry") instead of how many Green AP he has.

ThaRoadWarrior

Some characters could use super soldier serum

A_Wise_Man said:

HoundofShadow said:

So, you want them to increase the odds from 1:7 to 1:1?

IMO, That's not going to happen, apart from special circumstance.

No, same odds.  Everything in one store.  Increased tokens and cp in rewards, maybe 2 or 3 or 4 times the current rates.

So just Maximum Dilution then? 

Marc_Spector

Some characters could use super soldier serum

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Kraven needs to be able to create his own junk enemy specials. Have that be tied to his trap being matched perhaps? That trap costing 10ap to do (essentially) nothing is like...what? 3* Blade has a better move for doing that with his repeater thing. His black is actually not that bad, but just nothing he does really goes together in a coherent way. 

Moreso, the fact that Kraven's trap only gets placed on blue means there's little blue left for the enemy to hopefully-match by the time the trap's on the board. Was this meant as a counter to the blue-cascading Hulkbuster and Iceman metas of their day? -- Because those were long over by the time Kraven was released.

Jacklag

Some characters could use super soldier serum

KGB said:

P.S. As a 4* player I've never used Hammercap outside when he was boosted (my 5* Hawkeye is only 3/2/2). I only use Bishop in Shield Sim to take out Gritty or Rocket/Guardian teams that fill my queue once I pass about 1700 points.

Then you definetely should. Him plus Carol and and Thing are excellent to deal with Rocket+Juggernaut teams. Though I do not have Bishop, so he might actually be better.

I think this is why 4* players are defending not nerfing Bishop or HammerCap this enfatically. It's because at a certain point the game becomes nothing but waves of Grocket variations what would kill your entire team in one turn if you don't have one of these two.

ThaRoadWarrior

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I think thematically he may have been supposed to be part of some Sinister 3 team featuring Vulture and then either C4rnage or EB Venom? Then you could earn up Blue passively, and one of those other two spammers would be flooding the board with junk for you.

That kind of leads me back to the idea of rebalancing: in the year of our lord 2020, if a character has a power that costs more than 8ap, it better do SOMEthing good. stealing 1ap/turn until matched is decidedly not that.

A_Wise_Man

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

ThaRoadWarrior said:

A_Wise_Man said:

HoundofShadow said:

So, you want them to increase the odds from 1:7 to 1:1?

IMO, That's not going to happen, apart from special circumstance.

No, same odds.  Everything in one store.  Increased tokens and cp in rewards, maybe 2 or 3 or 4 times the current rates.

So just Maximum Dilution then? 

Yes and no.  Be lower odds all around but more chances overall to get stuff.  Right now the game makes 3 5 stars cheap and the rest ridiculously diluted.  Think of it like having bread, milk and butter really cheap at the grocery store but everything else costs $100.  This would make everything $100 but raise the minimum wage to $25/hour instead of $12 or $6/ hour.  

ThaRoadWarrior

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I'm still not sure I follow. So we're talking about everything moving into Classic Legends, with full ever-increasing dilution, but maintaining the ~1:7 pull rates to land no particular 5*, and then adjusting the economy to let me attempt more pulls int here? I think it would mean that anyone who isn't currently a 5* player is going to stay a 4* player for a LONG time if that happens.

A_Wise_Man

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I'm still not sure I follow. So we're talking about everything moving into Classic Legends, with full ever-increasing dilution, but maintaining the ~1:7 pull rates to land no particular 5*, and then adjusting the economy to let me attempt more pulls int here? I think it would mean that anyone who isn't currently a 5* player is going to stay a 4* player for a LONG time if that happens.

Maybe?  But let's say you earn 50 pulls a month.  Under this system youd be at around 200, so you'd grow 4 stars more quickly in general and could grow a feeder faster.  Youd also get more pulls for whatever 5 star you have bonused. Short term maybe a loss, but long term huge gain.  Itll never happen though

ThaRoadWarrior

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I'd much prefer it if we could see the characters permanently grouped by affiliation, or year of release, or some other meaningful subdivision, that way you would have a real chance to cover characters you want. The current advantage of Latest existing is that you can have increased odds of getting a particular 5 in a reasonable window of time. 

Rod5

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

I suspect I’m going to be just a variation on a theme, but here is my 2 cents.

Bishop is utterly broken. No-one in their right mind can argue any different. I’ve said this before numerous times, but by making his passive react to powers and special tiles only you remove the 5* auto-suicide. Please consider/action this.

HammerCap I’m more ambivalent about. He is largely unusable in normal PvP events, only coming into his own in SSim with specific characters. I just think his red/blue generation is a bit too aggressive, and could do with being toned down an AP each or so, or do similar as per Bishop above.

In terms of buffs, old 5* characters NEED equivalent health/match damage to the new ones. Banner and Wa5p both need an overhaul, but surely aligning the stats should be easy - even tickling some of the power numbers wouldn’t take too much effort and would make a lot of people who have affection for their former meta-champions happy. 

Furthermore, many newer people might like to play with Wa5p, Phoenix, Goblin etc but are basically prevented by the fact that they just aren’t competitive against their 5* counterparts.

For the sake of newer players and older players alike...please fix the 5* tier 🙂

Taganov

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I'm a 5* player and have been for about a year, maybe more, but I've been playing since 1* Storm and environmental tiles (remember those) were a thing. I get why Bishop is annoying.

Nerfs, though, are a nuclear option. Scorched earth. No one wins. D3 have never, not once, nerfed a character and have it retain any relevance. In case ya'll forgot: Ragnarok, Sentry, Wolverine 4, Wolverine 5, Gambit.

I'm sure there were others, but the forum tears were especially salty for those.

Daredevil217

So I just put 4 levels on my Okoye recently and am not leveling my Thor to match her. If they do end up standardizing match damage across the tier like we want (much much needed), I believe we will need more levels for Okoye to tank both yellow/red.  Something to consider.  

whoami

What about having a rotating set of 5*s with significant boosts each week? (Multiple God mode 5*s?) When the game moved to boosting different 4*s each week, that significantly improved the variation in teams faced. Boosting a few 5*s each week could have a similar effect, and could provide natural counters to the 4*s that the community wants nerfed. (Even better if you equalize match damage across 5*s)

HoundofShadow

Some characters could use super soldier serum

2* or 3* players will probably be complaining about this.

mega ghost

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Oh Lord, I can finally smell the rains on the wind. Rebalancing, yes! It's not just a few characters, it needs to be a regular feature. We should be using more than just the latest and greatest on our roster. Many just need their numbers adjusted: increased damage and / or decreased AP cost. Others need something much, much deeper. Assuming you won't invest in 3*s and recognizing that only a small percentage of the player base is affected by 5*s, here's a list of 4*s that need serious work. That deserve serious work. Ordered as I see them in my roster, not in order of importance:

The Thing — Ben should be an absolute bruiser, a wall of stone. Instead he doesn't pack a punch and his two active abilities cost too much to cast for too little utility.

X-23 — Dull and toothless. Lower AP costs, fortified tiles, anything to give her some edge.

Wolverine (X-Force) — Restore him to his former glory. He's boosted too often to be this limp.

Sam Wilson (Captain America) — One good nuke that you'll never get off, and only good if you fire another ability first. His blue should stay the same. That's it.

Lockjaw — His yellow is good. His blue is trash. His green should be entirely passive: at the start of the turn, add some random charged tiles, and then do damage if they're in the enemy's strongest color.

Sandman — Too many requirements and too expensive. His purple should be a passive (with less swaps) and his yellow should have passive components: it should create protect tiles passively based on yellow tiles on the board, or yellow matches, and the active component should be the damage dealt based on the number of protect tiles.

Venom (Eddie Brock) — Complete rework from scratch. He should be a beloved favorite. Instead he at best inspires mild disgust.

War Machine —Not a complete rework, but he needs more than just an adjustment to damage and costs. His countdowns need fortification and some more utility.

Jubilee — I have her champed and I've never even used her. Couldn't even tell you what all her powers do without looking them up. And I like her as a character. So something misfired here.

Kraven — One good conditional power. Overhaul the other two.

Black Widow (Infinity War) — Complete rework from scratch. 

Emma Frost — Complete rework from scratch. She should be a beloved favorite as well. One of the bigger MPQ disappointments for me. We finally got her, and then she was pointless.

Kingpin — He needed a rework, and then he got one that made him worse.