Nerf Bishop

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  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    I was given some advice for how to handle Bishop in the chat last night but have no desire post it here as it’s honestly kind of unbelievable 😂 
    Oh well now I want to know. That's a good teaser right there. 
    sambrookjm said:
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    I was given some advice for how to handle Bishop in the chat last night but have no desire post it here as it’s honestly kind of unbelievable 😂 
    Oh well now I want to know. That's a good teaser right there. 
    BigSoftieFF's Last Theorem - "It is entirely possible for a team to handle Bishop.  I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this chat log is too narrow to contain."

    PM’s sent
    So secretive. Illuminati confirmed.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I believe I mentioned that there were players thinking that compensation were unfair even though it was generous. Some mentioned that their alliance members were unhappy because they didn't get the better compensations. Some who got the better rewards felt bad for getting those rewards. There were also players blasting the developers for these unfair compensations, even though they got the better ones. I run between Reddit MPQ and here, so the comments I came across are spread between here and there, across different threads. Since the devs are going to get burned regardless of giving generous compensation or standard compensation, they might as well default to the standard compensation.

    If you've been to enough game forums (10 or so) and have played a number of mobile games with RNG, most of the common complains about MPQ can be easily found in other mobile games. For example, complains about rewards, RNG, devs not knowing how to play their game, the devs are incompetent, the devs don't listen to the players, the game being a moneygrab, the meta is boring, dilution etc. I think it mostly boils down to 1) expectations and 2) different goals/roles between the devs and the players.

    If the posters here want to turn this place into a "you are either with us (pro-players or against us (pro-dev/anti-players)" forum, then I think it's quite pointless for the dev to "communicate" in here more because ultimately, the players only wants to know if the devs are doing exactly what they want them to do, at the priority that they dictate. If not, the devs don't listen to players' feedbacks or the devs don't know how to play their own games. 

    Since Bishop is not getting nerfed anytime soon based on BigSoftieFF's comment, the players have to ride it out until some new characters are released or some other characters are reworked. I like the idea about updating 5* Black widow to stun the target who stunned your team.  If not, use 4* characters to deal with him.


  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    The rockett said:
    grunth13 said:
    The rockett said:
    Borstock said:
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
    While I understand what you are getting at and understand your point, if the Dev team thinks he is fine then they seriously do not understand the 5* game.  And if that is the case, that is even more scarier then the current set up of Bishop. 
    I think what he means is a match against bishop is going to cause you to use between 1 and 3 health packs which to the dev's means $.  Remember,  the reason Oml was nerfed was because "too many people were using him for too many matches" meaning he was causing the players to not have to use health packs. 
    Oh I know this fully. I was hoping somebody had to old Health Pack picture that... man I can’t remember the guys name that did the MPQ parody release posters... cause that’s what this is.  They know it isn’t good for the game but it is good for health pack purchases. 

    Edit:  Found it. daveomite made them.   Search HP suck and have a nice walk/laugh down memory lane.  
    I dont think this is it at all.  I'm still not buying all kinds of health packs and certainly not with real money...not directly anyway.  

    I read the exchange on discord and Ice made some valid points about Bishop.  He's actually not broken within his own tier.  Most of the tweaks people are suggesting (myself included) wouldnt allow bishop to "block things like Chavez procs or get grocket immediately into that reaction".  America surprised me, but rocket didn't.  As I *have* said, its more of a grocket problem than a bishop problem at the root of the issue.  But either way, any rebalance would have to somehow allow bishop to still counter those 4 star teams while not nullifying the entire tier above him.  


  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    grunth13 said:
    The rockett said:
    Borstock said:
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
    While I understand what you are getting at and understand your point, if the Dev team thinks he is fine then they seriously do not understand the 5* game.  And if that is the case, that is even more scarier then the current set up of Bishop. 
    I think what he means is a match against bishop is going to cause you to use between 1 and 3 health packs which to the dev's means $.  Remember,  the reason Oml was nerfed was because "too many people were using him for too many matches" meaning he was causing the players to not have to use health packs. 
    Oh I know this fully. I was hoping somebody had to old Health Pack picture that... man I can’t remember the guys name that did the MPQ parody release posters... cause that’s what this is.  They know it isn’t good for the game but it is good for health pack purchases. 

    Edit:  Found it. daveomite made them.   Search HP suck and have a nice walk/laugh down memory lane.  
    I feel like thorkoye laughs in the face of the healthpack drain excuse we players often use to suggest why things are nerfed or left alone.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:

    I feel like thorkoye laughs in the face of the healthpack drain excuse we players often use to suggest why things are nerfed or left alone.
    I don’t. I mentioned earlier why they won’t get nerfed. 

    As an aside, I just had a realization today that really bummed me out. As I’m preparing to drop 400 pulls on the X-Men Latest Legends store, and thinking of all the three-person combos I can play them on; it occurs to me that I no longer run 5* teams in Sim/ pick-3 PVP. If I run three 5*, then that means no Gritshop on defense, which means getting hammered relentlessly and possibly not hitting progression rewards. Having to end with Bishop is one thing. It makes sense to have your best defense out. But not being able to climb with 5* teams that you worked super hard to build up, all because of one broken 4*, really sucks. The fact that the developers are clueless about how much of a pain he is sucks more. 

    And to be clear, I was one who ran all sorts of teams. Not just Gritty or Thorkoye.  I’d always end with my best defense, but would mix and match all sorts of characters along the way. Now, if I want my best defense, I can no longer play those teams. I mean I did T50 Sim and got T10 in earths mightiest without even trying thanks to no one wanting to touch Bishop, so I guess that’s a plus?  Still, the game is much less fun now thanks to Bish. 
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 558 Critical Contributor
    It's never ending....

    It's always nerf someone


    If you want to fight a bishop team pick anti stun or a 4 team that won't trigger his passive out the gate.

    If you don't have any of those things pass.

    I hate bishop teams but it's good to finally have strong defense teams that don't get absolutely run over.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:

    I feel like thorkoye laughs in the face of the healthpack drain excuse we players often use to suggest why things are nerfed or left alone.
    I don’t. I mentioned earlier why they won’t get nerfed. 

    As an aside, I just had a realization today that really bummed me out. As I’m preparing to drop 400 pulls on the X-Men Latest Legends store, and thinking of all the three-person combos I can play them on; it occurs to me that I no longer run 5* teams in Sim/ pick-3 PVP. If I run three 5*, then that means no Gritshop on defense, which means getting hammered relentlessly and possibly not hitting progression rewards. Having to end with Bishop is one thing. It makes sense to have your best defense out. But not being able to climb with 5* teams that you worked super hard to build up, all because of one broken 4*, really sucks. The fact that the developers are clueless about how much of a pain he is sucks more. 

    And to be clear, I was one who ran all sorts of teams. Not just Gritty or Thorkoye.  I’d always end with my best defense, but would mix and match all sorts of characters along the way. Now, if I want my best defense, I can no longer play those teams. I mean I did T50 Sim and got T10 in earths mightiest without even trying thanks to no one wanting to touch Bishop, so I guess that’s a plus?  Still, the game is much less fun now thanks to Bish. 
    I meant thorkoye kind of disproves the idea of characters saving healthpacks means they will get nerfed. They are fairly sustainable for long stretches without needing to heal.
  • therightwaye
    therightwaye Posts: 459 Mover and Shaker
    I was just thinking... it's interesting how similar in powers Bishop is to Captain Marvel. They both absorb energy and release energy in a blast form.

    Yet, MPQ went two different directions with the characters. One being far weaker than the other. 

    I'm now suggesting Nerf Bishop and Buff Captain Marvel (Galactic Warrior) motion.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:

    I meant thorkoye kind of disproves the idea of characters saving healthpacks means they will get nerfed. They are fairly sustainable for long stretches without needing to heal.
    No I totally get that. But remember they never stated that OML (or any character) was nerfed because of health pack use. They can’t outright say that or they’d risk severely angering their customers. They gave us the “he’s used in more than 10% of matches” (I think that’s the number).

    So if they were to nerf both Okoye and Thor for pack use reasons; they’d have to come up with another reason to spin it. And there really isn’t one. The only character I believe hitting those 10% numbers is Grocket. Mainly because as a 4* he’s way more accessible than any 5* (thanks to Bonus Heroes). And he is used by 5* players more than most fives on their roster (with Thanos in PVE and Kitty in PVP). He’s also the first character a 3* player should be bonusing. I’d actually love to see the numbers on Grocket’s use. I imagine they’re quite high.  But he likely won’t get nerfed because he causes health pack use (likewise for Bishop who does so tenfold). Instead of conjuring up a fake excuse, nerfing a pack-saving meta, and risking complete outrage, just make an even more must-play pack-draining meta. 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Nerfing Rocket would bring down the wrath of nearly every PvE player I know 😂 
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,329 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Well I have Bishop with Strange and Daredevil in SIm and get hammered by 5* teams, so not sure what all the people saying he is impossible to beat are about?  I understand Bishop and Gritty combo is ridiculous but unlike everyone complaining here, there are many 5* teams that apparently beat Bishop teams, this last Sim proved that to me as I got hammered in the last few days. Only about 1/2 of those teams had a Bishop on them as well. I also got attacked many times through the Sim season (not just at the end) with Bishop on defense.  So perhaps it is high level Bishops that people are having issues with? Mine is only around 287 or so I believe.  I used the team though for offense and it was very effective with all of the stun capability and damage.  I probably successfully defended 1 out of 3 attacks on me give or take a bit.  Lots of Okoye teams with various combinations were able to defeat me. Several Gritty combos were also able to beat me.  Saw some Silver Surfer use too.

    My big issue is once you get close to the top of sim, all that you see is Bishop/Gritty.  You have to really punch down and play low point matches to not see that team combo.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,609 Chairperson of the Boards
    I relish seeing sub-300 lvl Bishops. I can beat those, I just see 340-370 ones most of the time. I’m not even a “real” 5* player with just the two champs I have.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    Warbringa said:
    Well I have Bishop with Strange and Daredevil in SIm and get hammered by 5* teams, so not sure what all the people saying he is impossible to beat are about?  I understand Bishop and Gritty combo is ridiculous but unlike everyone complaining here, there are many 5* teams that apparently beat Bishop teams, this last Sim proved that to me as I got hammered in the last few days. Only about 1/2 of those teams had a Bishop on them as well. I also got attacked many times through the Sim season (not just at the end) with Bishop on defense.  So perhaps it is high level Bishops that people are having issues with? Mine is only around 287 or so I believe.  I used the team though for offense and it was very effective with all of the stun capability and damage.  I probably successfully defended 1 out of 3 attacks on me give or take a bit.  Lots of Okoye teams with various combinations were able to defeat me. Several Gritty combos were also able to beat me.  Saw some Silver Surfer use too.

    My big issue is once you get close to the top of sim, all that you see is Bishop/Gritty.  You have to really punch down and play low point matches to not see that team combo.
    The difference is if your Bishop has enough hp to generate 30 blue ap or not. If its only 10 or 20 the entire team isnt stunned.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,329 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    dkffiv said:
    Warbringa said:
    Well I have Bishop with Strange and Daredevil in SIm and get hammered by 5* teams, so not sure what all the people saying he is impossible to beat are about?  I understand Bishop and Gritty combo is ridiculous but unlike everyone complaining here, there are many 5* teams that apparently beat Bishop teams, this last Sim proved that to me as I got hammered in the last few days. Only about 1/2 of those teams had a Bishop on them as well. I also got attacked many times through the Sim season (not just at the end) with Bishop on defense.  So perhaps it is high level Bishops that people are having issues with? Mine is only around 287 or so I believe.  I used the team though for offense and it was very effective with all of the stun capability and damage.  I probably successfully defended 1 out of 3 attacks on me give or take a bit.  Lots of Okoye teams with various combinations were able to defeat me. Several Gritty combos were also able to beat me.  Saw some Silver Surfer use too.

    My big issue is once you get close to the top of sim, all that you see is Bishop/Gritty.  You have to really punch down and play low point matches to not see that team combo.
    The difference is if your Bishop has enough hp to generate 30 blue ap or not. If its only 10 or 20 the entire team isnt stunned.
    Got it.  So would a good solution to be just to really reduce his health like they did to 3* Hood back in the day?  Or perhaps better give him an inverse curve where he gains less health at higher levels so 5* can take him out but he still has enough health at early levels to be effective in 4* play?
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Warbringa said:
    dkffiv said:
    Warbringa said:
    Well I have Bishop with Strange and Daredevil in SIm and get hammered by 5* teams, so not sure what all the people saying he is impossible to beat are about?  I understand Bishop and Gritty combo is ridiculous but unlike everyone complaining here, there are many 5* teams that apparently beat Bishop teams, this last Sim proved that to me as I got hammered in the last few days. Only about 1/2 of those teams had a Bishop on them as well. I also got attacked many times through the Sim season (not just at the end) with Bishop on defense.  So perhaps it is high level Bishops that people are having issues with? Mine is only around 287 or so I believe.  I used the team though for offense and it was very effective with all of the stun capability and damage.  I probably successfully defended 1 out of 3 attacks on me give or take a bit.  Lots of Okoye teams with various combinations were able to defeat me. Several Gritty combos were also able to beat me.  Saw some Silver Surfer use too.

    My big issue is once you get close to the top of sim, all that you see is Bishop/Gritty.  You have to really punch down and play low point matches to not see that team combo.
    The difference is if your Bishop has enough hp to generate 30 blue ap or not. If its only 10 or 20 the entire team isnt stunned.
    Got it.  So would a good solution to be just to really reduce his health like they did to 3* Hood back in the day?  Or perhaps better give him an inverse curve where he gains less health at higher levels so 5* can take him out but he still has enough health at early levels to be effective in 4* play?
    One suggestion put forth was to make his trigger numbers based but with a % probability of it firing, kind of like how some supports may or may not passively fire, but have that % be based on the level of your opponent, with the % going down as the levels of opponents you face go up in comparison to where your bishop stands.  So say a 90% chance of firing with a 270 bishop vs a 280 team, but like a 15% chance on a 270 vs 450 or so.  Boosted hed still be a pain for 5* players, but regular events hed be a non issue, but he could still easily counter rocket and america.
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Big difference for me in Black Vortex was having Grocket and Gamora boosted - which took mine to just over 370, and had them tank colours over Kitty.

    Normally, my Kitty tanks every colour, and so was always the one eating the first stun, leaving me in real trouble.  I would have to bring my own Bishop and hope I survived the initial match/blue/retal/blue/retal/blue chain between the two Bishops.

    However, if I don't bring Bishop, I have slightly more options.  I can match with Rocket or Gamora and only trigger their Bishop once.  I can make the second match with Rocket, and he will be the one who gets stunned (and I don't care). I sometimes got a minor cascade on turn two which would kill a low champ enemy Bishop before he processed his passives.

    Altogether, it was a better experience by far, and I was willing to take on low-champ Bishop teams.

    I'm hoping I can build my Grocket to where he at least tanks blue over Kitty, or use 4Juggs in Sim for the same effect.

    I'm curious as to how Gritty/ProfX will fare.

    I understand that this doesn't help against higher-level Bishops...
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Nerfing Rocket would bring down the wrath of nearly every PvE player I know 😂 
    @BigSoftieFF please don’t nerf me 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    The rockett said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Nerfing Rocket would bring down the wrath of nearly every PvE player I know 😂 
    @BigSoftieFF please don’t nerf me 
    🤣 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,609 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wouldn't be sad until Okoye gets a nerf, she's my primary force multiplier. I use Okoye/medusa | strang3 | chavez /3* thanos for my fast PVE clears. I only use 4ocket/5* Lord/thano5 on the easy nodes

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