Nerf Bishop

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Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The main question is: can Bishop teams be defeated by 5* players? The answer is "yes".

    However, when you add in more and more conditions attached to the wins, then the answer is a "no".

    For example, some of the conditions you attached to teams that can defeat Bishop teams are:

    1) Can that team help you to win PvP matches within a few turns?
    2) Can you do it while taking the least amount of damage?
    3) Is the team strong defensively?

    Isn't defensive team determined by the highest level of the teams that you use?

    Besides passive powers, are there any power that doesn't need ap?  :o

    If you are facing against Gritty + Bishop, chances are you are playing S.H.I.E.LD Simulator or PvP that allows you to choose three characters. Then, you don't even need to use a champed 3* in the first place. You can use a combination of 5* and 4*. 


  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    The questions I’m asking are:

    “Does Bishop create a broken mechanic?” Yes.

    “Is said mechanic being exploited by 5* players?”  Absolutely.

    I’m one of the people benefiting from his brokenness and I’m still asking that he be changed. 

    “What are the counters to Bishop in 5* play?” You can’t attack his partners (he’ll jump ahead). You can’t match 3 (he’ll stun lock your team). This is a broken mechanic akin to Gambattery (which was nerfed). So the solution you have provided was to use 4* characters (your example was a Gamora, Clagger, and X-23 team). You are clearly a 4* player, and I’m sure that team is awesome at your level of play. As a 5* player, offensively, that team will get murdered. While you can slow down Bishop with that team, the rest of their team will murder your team ON OFFENSE. I’m not worried about defense at all. Like you said (and others don’t seem to understand), once you’ve played a 5* team, an all-4* team won’t show on defense. So that’s fine. But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. This is what you’re not getting because you’re speaking about something you don’t understand and providing solutions that only work in your tier of play. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,527 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    The questions I’m asking are:

    “Does Bishop create a broken mechanic?” Yes.

    “Is said mechanic being exploited by 5* players?”  Absolutely.

    I’m one of the people benefiting from his brokenness and I’m still asking that he be changed. 

    “What are the counters to Bishop in 5* play?” You can’t attack his partners (he’ll jump ahead). You can’t match 3 (he’ll stun lock your team). This is a broken mechanic akin to Gambattery (which was nerfed). So the solution you have provided was to use 4* characters (your example was a Gamora, Clagger, and X-23 team). You are clearly a 4* player, and I’m sure that team is awesome at your level of play. As a 5* player, offensively, that team will get murdered. While you can slow down Bishop with that team, the rest of their team will murder your team ON OFFENSE. I’m not worried about defense at all. Like you said (and others don’t seem to understand), once you’ve played a 5* team, an all-4* team won’t show on defense. So that’s fine. But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. This is what you’re not getting because you’re speaking about something you don’t understand and providing solutions that only work in your tier of play. 
    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,527 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. You have to admit that it is pretty funny how you are now towards 4* players.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,527 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. You have to admit that it is pretty funny how you are now towards 4* players.

    I didn’t say anything about 4* players being stupid (I had to look up the definition of “numpties”). I have no issues with 4* players as a whole. I didn’t call Hound a “numpty”. In fact, I said that he made a point that many players (especially 5* players for some reason) don’t seem to get (how defensive teams work) and gave credit for that. I also said while his solution is likely good for his tier, it is by no means effective for the tier above him. That’s it.


    On the other hand...

    - You made a separate thread in which you warned people to “save themselves” and not enter this thread. 

    - You then decided not to heed your own advice and derailed this topic with a rally to nerf Kitty, saying things like “die kitty die”. You shared that if we can ask for a nerf you can too (which wasn’t the issue, it was more the off-topic ness). 

    - I went out of my way to find the nerf Kitty thread for you and gave you the link. You chose not to use it. Fine. 

    - Then in another thread on developers starting a new feature where they are providing insight on new characters, myself and others asked for insight into other characters, including more problematic ones like Bishop. You then cried about this thread “following you” and stated “a line in the sand” need to be drawn...

    - ... only to come back to the thread that you didn’t want following you, and add what exactly?


    I’m fine with people ribbing me. I know who I am. Lord knows I’ve poked fun at myself more than a few times (especially in my transition thread). I’m not that sensitive. But I strongly suggest you look at the above bullet points and examine your own patterns of very trolly behavior before throwing stones. Rather than “flagging” you (I hate when that feature is over-used) I’m just kindly asking you to stop. 

    I’m in here debating why I believe Bishop is a broken character that needs to be fixed. I argued for what I thought was right as a 4* player and am doing the same as a 5* player. If you want to debate my points, I’ll happily engage. Just please quit with the trolling is all. 


    Flag me if you like. I stand by my laughing at your hypocrisy. Sorry.
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Been on vacation for a week. Come back to find (unsurprisingly) that Bishop still exists without even a peep from the devs as to his horrible, stupid design, and people still not understanding how he's broken for 5* players.

    Some things will never change in this game.
    Not quite, I was at least told he hasn’t even been considered for a nerf. Also some tips on how to avoid him 🤣 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    I would love a mode to play around in for many reasons. Maybe I could find  a decent pairing for 5* Marvel.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    I would love a mode to play around in for many reasons. Maybe I could find  a decent pairing for 5* Marvel.
    I can help you out.  Banner and Wasp work great with her.  Call them TTCT
    The Trash Can Three. 
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. 
    Sorry if its a bit out of context, but that's not true, it just depends a bit on having them at a decent level when boosted. Off season I was running teams like Carol, Riri and Miles vs full 5* teams (but I was still avoiding Bishop teams). Added bonus is you run below 5* MMR so you don't get hit by 5* teams until you climb high enough or break out the 5*s of your own.
    But Bishop/Gritty. Yeah, avoid that. 
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    CT1888 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. 
    Sorry if its a bit out of context, but that's not true, it just depends a bit on having them at a decent level when boosted. Off season I was running teams like Carol, Riri and Miles vs full 5* teams (but I was still avoiding Bishop teams). Added bonus is you run below 5* MMR so you don't get hit by 5* teams until you climb high enough or break out the 5*s of your own.
    But Bishop/Gritty. Yeah, avoid that. 
    Back when I could be bothered to do more than a speed run to 575/900/1200 or whatever my target is, I often used to delight in running 5/4* and boosted 4/4* teams in regular PvP and yes they are fully capable of beating 5* teams (maybe not Gritty very reliably) and as you say it has the side benefit of hiding from 5* MMR.

    The problem with running them against Bishop is a decently levelled boosted 4* still triggers  him with match damage.  But perhaps I need to consider running my duplicate 27x Clagger & Medusa rather than the maxed versions.....

    On the plus side, very occasionally there's a boosted 4* that synergises so well with Okoye such as Medusa you can wipe Bishop out on turn two if you can match a couple of team ups tiles and/or boost ap.

    For Sim, I've been trying to come up with 4*and 5/4/4 teams to counter Bishop but as mentioned previously in this thread, the problem is that if you manage to neutralise him (I.e. with Surfer) you still need to take out either Gritty or Okoye/Strange.
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards
    I used an all 4* team in Shield Sim to beat Gritty Bishop.

    I havent tried it again (yet) but i was really happy with the results.

    No, i didnt use a boost either.

    Im keeping this gem in my pocket for now.

    Yes, i still think Bishop is broken.
    I find no logic in the idea of a lower tier character totally upsetting the tier above him, when the tier above him is supposed to be the end game.  Sure, you can play around it and win at times.  But it shouldnt be so hard, and so obviously good, too.

    Itd be one thing if it was a trick you come up with... A combo that worked if certain AP was grabbed, or if powers were used in a certain way.  But its not.  Its literally the easiest thing to play.  Even 5* Thor meta play requires you to play with half health.  This guy just demands a health pack to give you what you could almost call an auto-win.

    If other characters could do that, i think we wouldnt talk about it as much.  But since one dude can do so much with little to no effort, nearly guaranteeing a win... I think thats the issue.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    I would love a mode to play around in for many reasons. Maybe I could find  a decent pairing for 5* Marvel.
    Black Cat + Vulture is solid with Marvel for fun PvE events
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,522 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just tested Archangel’s Aerial Superiority against a Bishop/JJ team in the torch PvP (via a team up, my AA isn’t competitive), and I can confirm that it does indeed shut down all AP gain on that color. As I suspected, I’d happily eat that retal damage from bishop as long as it didn’t end up with a stun. Too bad those CDs are a delightful snack on grishop matches, but I guess take that for what it’s worth those of you who can run AA.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    OJSP said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I just tested Archangel’s Aerial Superiority against a Bishop/JJ team in the torch PvP (via a team up, my AA isn’t competitive), and I can confirm that it does indeed shut down all AP gain on that color. As I suspected, I’d happily eat that retal damage from bishop as long as it didn’t end up with a stun. Too bad those CDs are a delightful snack on grishop matches, but I guess take that for what it’s worth those of you who can run AA.
    And how do we get 7 Black APs without triggering Bishop's passive?
    Magic.
    Just like all the other "counters".
    Well Magik gives red AP. But she IS a 4*, so there’s that. 

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