Nerf Bishop

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Comments

  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Say what say what you want man when you’re in 5* MMR any of those options above will get you murdered. That’s the one piece that nobody wants to talk about.

    There are no counters....you skip or deal with it.,,plain and simple.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    Indeed but that doesn’t take into account what the rest of the line up will be doing to your team. 

    All this talk of punching up, well let’s see these four star teams take on my fives in sim or pvp with 3* 5* and my bishop.

    Again I never ever have a loss to a team punching up when I have bishop out. Shame I can’t see the teams registering all the losses.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I still see players in PvPs hitting 1600++ points in regularly. If PvPs with Bishop is impossible to deal with, I wonder how those top players achieve that. Perhaps, they know the answer(s) to handling Bishop teams?  
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    HoundofShadow said:
    I still see players in PvPs hitting 1600++ points in regularly. If PvPs with Bishop is impossible to deal with, I wonder how those top players achieve that. Perhaps, they know the answer(s) to handling Bishop teams?  
    I suspect they probably join early, clear the seeds and maybe a few more matches.  Then at around 575 they put out a Bishop team and over the next 2 days sit back and see their score inflate a few points at a time from those naive enough to try climbing late through the hoard of Bishop teams.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    CharlieCroker said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I still see players in PvPs hitting 1600++ points in regularly. If PvPs with Bishop is impossible to deal with, I wonder how those top players achieve that. Perhaps, they know the answer(s) to handling Bishop teams?  
    I suspect they probably join early, clear the seeds and maybe a few more matches.  Then at around 575 they put out a Bishop team and over the next 2 days sit back and see their score inflate a few points at a time from those naive enough to try climbing late through the hoard of Bishop teams.
    I don't know if this is tongue in cheek, but 1600 points in PVP is going to require hops, probably some check rooms as well.  Leaving out a Bishop/Strange team or whatever isn't bumping your score as much as letting you coast without shields.

    Bishop is mainly a problem in any PVP where you select 3 characters, and also when he's boosted.  The number of people running Bishop on a 2-man team in a standard PVP (like, say, the current Squirrel Girl) is not very large and he's not having a huge impact on scores in those events.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    bluewolf said:
    CharlieCroker said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I still see players in PvPs hitting 1600++ points in regularly. If PvPs with Bishop is impossible to deal with, I wonder how those top players achieve that. Perhaps, they know the answer(s) to handling Bishop teams?  
    I suspect they probably join early, clear the seeds and maybe a few more matches.  Then at around 575 they put out a Bishop team and over the next 2 days sit back and see their score inflate a few points at a time from those naive enough to try climbing late through the hoard of Bishop teams.
    I don't know if this is tongue in cheek, but 1600 points in PVP is going to require hops, probably some check rooms as well.  Leaving out a Bishop/Strange team or whatever isn't bumping your score as much as letting you coast without shields.

    Bishop is mainly a problem in any PVP where you select 3 characters, and also when he's boosted.  The number of people running Bishop on a 2-man team in a standard PVP (like, say, the current Squirrel Girl) is not very large and he's not having a huge impact on scores in those events.
    People are using bishop to float.  They're not using him for initial climbs from say 0-1k because he uses way too many health packs.  They're also not typically using him for shield hops (though some do!), they're using kitty/rocket or thor/okoye or even sometimes thanos/panther if they're only hitting cupcake teams.  Even if they do use bishop for a hop, they'll drop a cupcake team for whoever they're coordinating with to reach higher scores.  But if they've reached a certain score and aren't quite ready to shield they'll throw a bishop team out for some skips.  This is what ends up creating the wall around 1k or so, because he's all that's out there unless theres higher hoppers. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The main question is: can Bishop teams be defeated by 5* players? The answer is "yes".

    However, when you add in more and more conditions attached to the wins, then the answer is a "no".

    For example, some of the conditions you attached to teams that can defeat Bishop teams are:

    1) Can that team help you to win PvP matches within a few turns?
    2) Can you do it while taking the least amount of damage?
    3) Is the team strong defensively?

    Isn't defensive team determined by the highest level of the teams that you use?

    Besides passive powers, are there any power that doesn't need ap?  :o

    If you are facing against Gritty + Bishop, chances are you are playing S.H.I.E.LD Simulator or PvP that allows you to choose three characters. Then, you don't even need to use a champed 3* in the first place. You can use a combination of 5* and 4*. 


  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    The questions I’m asking are:

    “Does Bishop create a broken mechanic?” Yes.

    “Is said mechanic being exploited by 5* players?”  Absolutely.

    I’m one of the people benefiting from his brokenness and I’m still asking that he be changed. 

    “What are the counters to Bishop in 5* play?” You can’t attack his partners (he’ll jump ahead). You can’t match 3 (he’ll stun lock your team). This is a broken mechanic akin to Gambattery (which was nerfed). So the solution you have provided was to use 4* characters (your example was a Gamora, Clagger, and X-23 team). You are clearly a 4* player, and I’m sure that team is awesome at your level of play. As a 5* player, offensively, that team will get murdered. While you can slow down Bishop with that team, the rest of their team will murder your team ON OFFENSE. I’m not worried about defense at all. Like you said (and others don’t seem to understand), once you’ve played a 5* team, an all-4* team won’t show on defense. So that’s fine. But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. This is what you’re not getting because you’re speaking about something you don’t understand and providing solutions that only work in your tier of play. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    The questions I’m asking are:

    “Does Bishop create a broken mechanic?” Yes.

    “Is said mechanic being exploited by 5* players?”  Absolutely.

    I’m one of the people benefiting from his brokenness and I’m still asking that he be changed. 

    “What are the counters to Bishop in 5* play?” You can’t attack his partners (he’ll jump ahead). You can’t match 3 (he’ll stun lock your team). This is a broken mechanic akin to Gambattery (which was nerfed). So the solution you have provided was to use 4* characters (your example was a Gamora, Clagger, and X-23 team). You are clearly a 4* player, and I’m sure that team is awesome at your level of play. As a 5* player, offensively, that team will get murdered. While you can slow down Bishop with that team, the rest of their team will murder your team ON OFFENSE. I’m not worried about defense at all. Like you said (and others don’t seem to understand), once you’ve played a 5* team, an all-4* team won’t show on defense. So that’s fine. But you won’t beat a 5* team bringing an all-4* team to the fight. This is what you’re not getting because you’re speaking about something you don’t understand and providing solutions that only work in your tier of play. 
    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. You have to admit that it is pretty funny how you are now towards 4* players.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    DAZ0273 said:

    4* players, they sure are numpties.

    Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
    I thought you were done with this thread. You really came back just to “add” that to the discussion?
    Sorry, couldn't resist. You have to admit that it is pretty funny how you are now towards 4* players.

    I didn’t say anything about 4* players being stupid (I had to look up the definition of “numpties”). I have no issues with 4* players as a whole. I didn’t call Hound a “numpty”. In fact, I said that he made a point that many players (especially 5* players for some reason) don’t seem to get (how defensive teams work) and gave credit for that. I also said while his solution is likely good for his tier, it is by no means effective for the tier above him. That’s it.


    On the other hand...

    - You made a separate thread in which you warned people to “save themselves” and not enter this thread. 

    - You then decided not to heed your own advice and derailed this topic with a rally to nerf Kitty, saying things like “die kitty die”. You shared that if we can ask for a nerf you can too (which wasn’t the issue, it was more the off-topic ness). 

    - I went out of my way to find the nerf Kitty thread for you and gave you the link. You chose not to use it. Fine. 

    - Then in another thread on developers starting a new feature where they are providing insight on new characters, myself and others asked for insight into other characters, including more problematic ones like Bishop. You then cried about this thread “following you” and stated “a line in the sand” need to be drawn...

    - ... only to come back to the thread that you didn’t want following you, and add what exactly?


    I’m fine with people ribbing me. I know who I am. Lord knows I’ve poked fun at myself more than a few times (especially in my transition thread). I’m not that sensitive. But I strongly suggest you look at the above bullet points and examine your own patterns of very trolly behavior before throwing stones. Rather than “flagging” you (I hate when that feature is over-used) I’m just kindly asking you to stop. 

    I’m in here debating why I believe Bishop is a broken character that needs to be fixed. I argued for what I thought was right as a 4* player and am doing the same as a 5* player. If you want to debate my points, I’ll happily engage. Just please quit with the trolling is all. 


    Flag me if you like. I stand by my laughing at your hypocrisy. Sorry.
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Been on vacation for a week. Come back to find (unsurprisingly) that Bishop still exists without even a peep from the devs as to his horrible, stupid design, and people still not understanding how he's broken for 5* players.

    Some things will never change in this game.
    Not quite, I was at least told he hasn’t even been considered for a nerf. Also some tips on how to avoid him 🤣 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    I would love a mode to play around in for many reasons. Maybe I could find  a decent pairing for 5* Marvel.

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