Nerf Bishop

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  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Warbringa said:
    dkffiv said:
    Warbringa said:
    Well I have Bishop with Strange and Daredevil in SIm and get hammered by 5* teams, so not sure what all the people saying he is impossible to beat are about?  I understand Bishop and Gritty combo is ridiculous but unlike everyone complaining here, there are many 5* teams that apparently beat Bishop teams, this last Sim proved that to me as I got hammered in the last few days. Only about 1/2 of those teams had a Bishop on them as well. I also got attacked many times through the Sim season (not just at the end) with Bishop on defense.  So perhaps it is high level Bishops that people are having issues with? Mine is only around 287 or so I believe.  I used the team though for offense and it was very effective with all of the stun capability and damage.  I probably successfully defended 1 out of 3 attacks on me give or take a bit.  Lots of Okoye teams with various combinations were able to defeat me. Several Gritty combos were also able to beat me.  Saw some Silver Surfer use too.

    My big issue is once you get close to the top of sim, all that you see is Bishop/Gritty.  You have to really punch down and play low point matches to not see that team combo.
    The difference is if your Bishop has enough hp to generate 30 blue ap or not. If its only 10 or 20 the entire team isnt stunned.
    Got it.  So would a good solution to be just to really reduce his health like they did to 3* Hood back in the day?  Or perhaps better give him an inverse curve where he gains less health at higher levels so 5* can take him out but he still has enough health at early levels to be effective in 4* play?
    One suggestion put forth was to make his trigger numbers based but with a % probability of it firing, kind of like how some supports may or may not passively fire, but have that % be based on the level of your opponent, with the % going down as the levels of opponents you face go up in comparison to where your bishop stands.  So say a 90% chance of firing with a 270 bishop vs a 280 team, but like a 15% chance on a 270 vs 450 or so.  Boosted hed still be a pain for 5* players, but regular events hed be a non issue, but he could still easily counter rocket and america.
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Big difference for me in Black Vortex was having Grocket and Gamora boosted - which took mine to just over 370, and had them tank colours over Kitty.

    Normally, my Kitty tanks every colour, and so was always the one eating the first stun, leaving me in real trouble.  I would have to bring my own Bishop and hope I survived the initial match/blue/retal/blue/retal/blue chain between the two Bishops.

    However, if I don't bring Bishop, I have slightly more options.  I can match with Rocket or Gamora and only trigger their Bishop once.  I can make the second match with Rocket, and he will be the one who gets stunned (and I don't care). I sometimes got a minor cascade on turn two which would kill a low champ enemy Bishop before he processed his passives.

    Altogether, it was a better experience by far, and I was willing to take on low-champ Bishop teams.

    I'm hoping I can build my Grocket to where he at least tanks blue over Kitty, or use 4Juggs in Sim for the same effect.

    I'm curious as to how Gritty/ProfX will fare.

    I understand that this doesn't help against higher-level Bishops...
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Nerfing Rocket would bring down the wrath of nearly every PvE player I know 😂 
    @BigSoftieFF please don’t nerf me 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    The rockett said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Nerfing Rocket would bring down the wrath of nearly every PvE player I know 😂 
    @BigSoftieFF please don’t nerf me 
    🤣 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I wouldn't be sad until Okoye gets a nerf, she's my primary force multiplier. I use Okoye/medusa | strang3 | chavez /3* thanos for my fast PVE clears. I only use 4ocket/5* Lord/thano5 on the easy nodes
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    @The rockett you can't use BOOSTED 4s, duh
  • sambrookjm
    sambrookjm Posts: 2,163 Chairperson of the Boards
    fmftint said:
    @The rockett you can't use BOOSTED 4s, duh
    They laughed at me when I used my Loaner Squirrel Girl/Bagman/Yelena Benlova team in that event.  WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!?!   >:)
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    fmftint said:
    @The rockett you can't use BOOSTED 4s, duh
    Exactly. Bishop is the true key to bringing about team diversity. You just have to abandon every boosted character and all your 5*s. Long time players with deep rosters will appreciate being able to utilize their entire squad of non 5*, non boosted characters in the continuing battle vs the true future threat, Bishop (step aside Kang).
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think if you use Howard, Taskmaster, and Wiccan (who is never boosted) you'll win against Bishop every time.
  • Xair
    Xair Posts: 77 Match Maker

    My opinion:

    I remember how bad It felt when gambit got nerfed, it was my only strong 5*, and it took me so long to build him up. So right from the start I should say nerfing a char feels bad, and it should be done only when necessary.

    That said, my roster isn’t that strong, so whenever I see bishop 4* in a line, I just don’t attack. I know I don’t have a chance to win. But since my roster is considered strong by the matchmaking system, I see bishop all the time. 

    what’s the point of putting a 4* char which is preferable to all the championed 5*?

    so what should the game designers do in my opinion?

    I think that instead of waiting so long before a nerf, letting people get their hopes up that investing in this char is the right thing, when there is a case of such obvious char abuse in pvp especially, the nerf needs to come sooner rather than later.

    The sooner you nerf an obviously bad char, the less hearts you break for doing so.

    also, instead of trying to make the perfect nerf, which is impossible, because a char is either op or its not, you just make a good compensation for the nerf. 

    what is good compensation? 

    if u sell the skins u get free choice of the lost skins, to any char with same amount of *.

    that way even if it's ur first champed 4* u still can get a new 4* champed char of ur choice.

  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    fmftint said:
    @The rockett you can't use BOOSTED 4s, duh

    I think his point, or at least what annoys me most that he also pointed out, was that lvl 266 3*s can trigger Bishop.  I think it's usually only the 3*s strongest color, but only 2*s are truly safe against Bishop.  
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Attack his teammates then. I don't think a boosted 3* match damage reach 900.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Attack his teammates then. I don't think a boosted 3* match damage reach 900.
    Doesn’t he jump in front no matter which teammate you attack?
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Yes he does....
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    There's a certain threshold. I think it's around 900 for 270 Bishop.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    So we are down to using boosted 3*s now? Please record yourself hitting my bishop and JJ with your 3* team. Why is literally no one doing this against my left out team.

    Lets see some actual evidence of your 3 and four star wins against bishop teams.
  • helix72
    helix72 Posts: 996 Critical Contributor
    I present the below only to help, I do not have a dog in this fight so please don’t assume I’m making a case for or against a nerf.

    My level 279 Bishop jumps in front at 940 damage and triggers Blue AP gain at 470 damage.

    In the current PvP event, my max champed boosted 3* Squirrel Girl has max damage on yellow of 234, so a regular match-3 would be 702.

    My 4* Clagger is boosted to level 384 and his highest match damage is yellow 189.

    My 4* X-23 is boosted to level 402 and her highest match damage is green 217.
  • maguirenumber6
    maguirenumber6 Posts: 457 Mover and Shaker
    peterdark said:
    I'm not sure how giving Bishop a 'nerf' will help
    :) 

    Depends on the size of the nerf

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Since there are players who said that the devs is not going to nerf Bishop, then you either adapt or ignore whatever have been suggested and pay the skip tax

    A max champed 4* (majority of them) highest match is 170. So you can do a match 3 or match 4 without triggering his jumping in front, depending on his level. 

    Find out what's his damage threshold for jumping in front and adapt accordingly.

    Use a 4* with cheap stun like Gamora or Iceman to stop him.

    Use Cloak&Dagger and reduce his power level to 1 and Bishop's damage threshold increases to ~1800 or more.

    Send him airborn with Riri or Nova.

    Make your team invisible.

    Use someone with true heal.

    Use someone with anti-stun abilities.

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