Nerf Bishop

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Comments

  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    How is stating an opinion trolling? Is there a certain kind of opinion I must and can only have when you mentioned that Ice said Bishop will not be nerfed? Many will be disappointed and it's plausible that they will retire. My opinion was inferred based on players retiring due to Gritty being the meta. 
    I agree with the people retiring. I'm probably going to take an extended break after the anniversary becuase of the gritty meta. It's super frustrating and there is a super easy fix for it that can be implemented painlessly. ( reducing grockets strike tile number yet keeping same damage values) 


  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,187 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I suppose a lot of people are going to quit over this and more retirement topics in the coming days.  :|
    Why do you care? Keep trollin the threads...You have to be a dev or D3 account or something, 
    I logged in just to "like" this post.

    Wish I could upvote it more than once.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I suppose a lot of people are going to quit over this and more retirement topics in the coming days.  :|
    Why do you care? Keep trollin the threads...You have to be a dev or D3 account or something, 
    So because a player doesn't complain about the devs all the time and often supports or defends their decisions or actions they are a troll and have to be a dev? 

    The hatred for the dev team in this community is unreal. How so many people can nonstop spout how clueless/moneygrubbing etc etc the devs are yet still play the game and even spend money on it is mindboggling. 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I suppose a lot of people are going to quit over this and more retirement topics in the coming days.  :|
    Why do you care? Keep trollin the threads...You have to be a dev or D3 account or something, 
    So because a player doesn't complain about the devs all the time and often supports or defends their decisions or actions they are a troll and have to be a dev? 

    The hatred for the dev team in this community is unreal. How so many people can nonstop spout how clueless/moneygrubbing etc etc the devs are yet still play the game and even spend money on it is mindboggling. 
    Wrong guy pal. I don’t hate the dev team or the game and understand and support many things they do. For example...I like supports, costumes, bundles, etc.

    Bishop is a joke plain and simple.

    What I don’t like is “players” who always argue in bad faith. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to catch the vibe that they put down..
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    With recent 4* releases it looks as though they are trying to bridge the gap for 4/5 transition and keep the 4* tier relevant at the same time. That doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me, personally I’m glad to hear no nerf is in the works...but I do understand the disappointment for those who feel differently.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Time to put my BH back on bishop and work on that 370. I genuinely thought there was no chance he’d stay as he is. Seems I’m wrong. Time to ignore ST 10 covers and get back to nothing but him.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Here we are on page 20 of comments....and this point has probably been made....maybe....earlier. 

    Arguments go around and around......I'll say it again anyway based on some comments I saw last night from Ice.

    I charitably assume the devs never thought players would want to run Bishop with 5's and float.  It makes sense that we as players always look for loopholes etc, which is what Bishop really is.

    The devs seem to approach things much more rigidly in terms of what tier a character is in and who you will use him with.

    While the 5* players are sick and tired of Bishop, there are people working on their 4 tier that would find him useful against high end 4's (like Rocket + Gamora or Chavez) and so the devs in general are probably worried about any nerf that makes a desired 4 less valuable, despite many players being tired of them etc.

    Some math:

    If you get 85% 4's from your Legendary pulls, that means that approximately every 24 pulls you get a bonus 4 at 5%.  That translates into 480 CP in Classics (let's just say a person who's really going to be upset about a 4* nerf is pulling there).  But, about every 100 pulls you'll get another cover for that person you bonused.  So after approx 240 pulls, or 4800 CP, you would hopefully have 12 covers for a 4 you wanted.  Maybe that's enough, maybe you pull one more bonus and go to 5,280 CP used to get a finished 4.  Assuming your colors worked out the way you hoped.

    Obviously you got a lot of other covers but ask anyone who's working on the 4 tier as a new player how easy it is.

    Pulling the rug out on someone who's trying to finish Bishop is risky.  For all the vets hanging around, there are probably an equal number of players who are trying to figure out how to make progress in the 4 tier and anyone serious about it is probably a spender too.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I suppose a lot of people are going to quit over this and more retirement topics in the coming days.  :|
    Why do you care? Keep trollin the threads...You have to be a dev or D3 account or something, 
    So because a player doesn't complain about the devs all the time and often supports or defends their decisions or actions they are a troll and have to be a dev? 

    The hatred for the dev team in this community is unreal. How so many people can nonstop spout how clueless/moneygrubbing etc etc the devs are yet still play the game and even spend money on it is mindboggling. 
    Wrong guy pal. I don’t hate the dev team or the game and understand and support many things they do. For example...I like supports, costumes, bundles, etc.

    Bishop is a joke plain and simple.

    What I don’t like is “players” who always argue in bad faith. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to catch the vibe that they put down..
    Then ignore them or something. If they really are a troll and bother you, you can block yourself from seeing the posts they make. There is no need to pounce on other people and call them a dev that is just here to troll the forums. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    tiomono said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    I suppose a lot of people are going to quit over this and more retirement topics in the coming days.  :|
    Why do you care? Keep trollin the threads...You have to be a dev or D3 account or something, 
    So because a player doesn't complain about the devs all the time and often supports or defends their decisions or actions they are a troll and have to be a dev? 

    The hatred for the dev team in this community is unreal. How so many people can nonstop spout how clueless/moneygrubbing etc etc the devs are yet still play the game and even spend money on it is mindboggling. 
    Wrong guy pal. I don’t hate the dev team or the game and understand and support many things they do. For example...I like supports, costumes, bundles, etc.

    Bishop is a joke plain and simple.

    What I don’t like is “players” who always argue in bad faith. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to catch the vibe that they put down..
    Then ignore them or something. If they really are a troll and bother you, you can block yourself from seeing the posts they make. There is no need to pounce on other people and call them a dev that is just here to troll the forums. 
    One of many examples of this “arguing in bad faith” is when people were understandably upset about the recent server outage compensation. He came in and accused players of “blasting the developers” for giving better compensation last time and said that’s why the developers were stingy (my words not his of course) this go round. I found the thread he was referring to, linked it for him and asked for examples of people “blasting the developers”. Silence. Instead he just went into another thread and lectured players for having “unreasonable expectations”.

    Defending the developers like they pay your salary in every single thread is fine if that’s your gimmick. But I draw the line at outright lying to make your point. And if you’re upset at posters who are negative toward the developers at every single turn (yes we have those too), I’d argue that criticizing your fellow players at every single turn (with unfounded information no less) is just as bad and borders on trolling. 
  • ursopro
    ursopro Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    y'all first mistake was not putting the dude in your ignore list

    second mistake was engaging in a "discussion" with him
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    When 4* Starload got a rebalance, he with someone else (remember) made an infinite win team. The devs corrected it in a day.

    I'll leave that here. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Don’t see the point in hammering home the same stuff over and over for another 20 pages. Points have been made and we hear it’s not currently on the table. 

    Get on with it or dont, at least we know where they are on nerfing bishop. The feedbacks all there now, nothing to be gained from the same 5 people repeating themselves.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    bluewolf said:

    Pulling the rug out on someone who's trying to finish Bishop is risky.  For all the vets hanging around, there are probably an equal number of players who are trying to figure out how to make progress in the 4 tier and anyone serious about it is probably a spender too.
    Changes could be made so that he remains effectively the same at 4* tier while becoming far less useful at 5*.  After playing the Talos crash I came up with the following:

    Overlocked (Red):
    Old:
    (PASSIVE) Bishop absorbs his enemy's attacks, storing them up for an explosive blast.  If Bishop's teammates would take x or more damage, Bishop jumps to the front.  Once Bishop has taken y damage, deal z damage to the enemy.

    New:
    (PASSIVE) Bishop absorbs his enemy's attacks, storing them up for an explosive blast.  For every blue AP Bishop's team possesses, increase his match damage in all colors by (10 at level 270, 20 at 370).

    Numbers could be tweaked but that seems about right.  With a team of 270s, 8 AP would cause Bishop to tank every color.  270 Bishop plus 370's would need about 16 AP, a team of all 370's would still be about 8 AP.  Get Bishop to tank the first first hit and you're basically in business.  On defense you don't want to hit him first and if you can't burst him in 1 shot he's going to cause a lot of pain. 

    *This also adds the bonus of that you can somewhat control when he gets hit instead of him suiciding every match.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Borstock said:
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
    While I understand what you are getting at and understand your point, if the Dev team thinks he is fine then they seriously do not understand the 5* game.  And if that is the case, that is even more scarier then the current set up of Bishop. 
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
    The rockett said:
    Borstock said:
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
    While I understand what you are getting at and understand your point, if the Dev team thinks he is fine then they seriously do not understand the 5* game.  And if that is the case, that is even more scarier then the current set up of Bishop. 
    I think what he means is a match against bishop is going to cause you to use between 1 and 3 health packs which to the dev's means $.  Remember,  the reason Oml was nerfed was because "too many people were using him for too many matches" meaning he was causing the players to not have to use health packs. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    grunth13 said:
    The rockett said:
    Borstock said:
    The rockett said:
    It is sad that this Dev team cannot spot a broken character that needs fixed.  It is not surprising because it took so many months for them to fix Gambit even though everyone was telling them how broken he was.  

    Who says they can't?

    It should once again be mentioned that the goals of the player and the goals of the devs are not the same thing. I pretty much always assume that a character is working as intended until patched. Even then, we can assume their intentions for the fix, but I doubt we can know for sure, even if an explanation is offered on the forums.

    A character that is "broken" for the players is not necessarily "broken" for a dev.
    While I understand what you are getting at and understand your point, if the Dev team thinks he is fine then they seriously do not understand the 5* game.  And if that is the case, that is even more scarier then the current set up of Bishop. 
    I think what he means is a match against bishop is going to cause you to use between 1 and 3 health packs which to the dev's means $.  Remember,  the reason Oml was nerfed was because "too many people were using him for too many matches" meaning he was causing the players to not have to use health packs. 
    I was just going to post this! Bishop is the most health-pack draining character in the history of this game. And yes that includes Thanos, who you could at least pair with true healers to slow down the pain. 

    Thor and Okoye are not at all broken. If one were nerfed, the other would inherently be nerfed as well, as they are WAY greater together than the sum of their parts. They’re not that scary together on defense, but Thor, without Okoye boosting his powers? Okoye without Thor feeding her heals? REALLY not scary. So the developers cannot in good conscience nerf them despite the fact that they cost you no health packs. They did this once with OML and people were pretty skeptical of the reasoning. Nerf another true heal combo and you risk showing your hand too much. 

    So... instead of nerfing the current meta; they just released a more potent one that is SO good on defense (opposite of Thorkoye) that players either play it or become a target themselves. The average player should wipe more and use more packs playing with/against Gritty than with/against Thorkoye. But again, they’re beatable. Add Bishop to the mix and you are guaranteed to be using one pack minimum (likely more) if you play as that trio and around 3 if you play against it. Kitty and Bishop aren’t going anywhere because this solves their problem of a meta that doesn’t use packs. It doesn’t matter how much we tell them what a miserable experience it is. They’ll see it as a win due to the increase in health packs. 

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