Nerf Bishop

BigSoftieFF

And of course if there was a 3* character that punished 4* rosters on a simple match three everyone would be great with that right?

Carry on believing that 5* people want to continue to beat down small rosters when we can’t even qqq them till we’re at 900 or above. 

DAZ0273

BigSoftieFF said:

And of course if there was a 3* character that punished 4* rosters on a simple match three everyone would be great with that right?

Carry on believing that 5* people want to continue to beat down small rosters when we can’t even qqq them till we’re at 900 or above. 

Let's nerf Bishop, no problem. Let us also nerf Kitty too. I am on board.

BigSoftieFF

Only nerf Kitty needs is on Purple. The instant overwrite is a bit much and makes some PvP events feel ridiculous.

jp1

DAZ0273 said:

BigSoftieFF said:

And of course if there was a 3* character that punished 4* rosters on a simple match three everyone would be great with that right?

Carry on believing that 5* people want to continue to beat down small rosters when we can’t even qqq them till we’re at 900 or above. 

Let's nerf Bishop, no problem. Let us also nerf Kitty too. I am on board.

I don’t want a Bishop nerf, but please leave Kitty out of this before we lose two good characters.

Thorkoye as the only Meta isn’t healthy either.

Buff, buff, buff....

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

The rockett said:

Hey @Brigby @Demiurge_Anthony @LakeStone
Is the Dev team aware of these concerns?  Any questions or comments?  

Hey @Brigby @Demiurge_Anthony @LakeStone if Bishop is nerfed can we please also at least address the Kitty Pryde yellow power issue as well that probably affects Waaaaaay more of your playerbase? Thank you.
 

Adress it with what? A 4 star counter? Like say prowler, sabertooth, thanos, kraven, magik, Emma (ha ha), dazzler,  juggernaut, mehulk, etc etc etc, that all give you special removal, steal, boardshake, resistance vs match damage etc etc you get the idea. 

Or maybe a 5 star counter like bssm, thorkoye (who actually out damage and out sustain gritty), or iceman with his cheap stun and damage mitigation.

The only kitties that are a problem in the 4 star tier are ones well covered. If they are not well covered they are easily countered by a large variety of strategies and characters.

And if they are well covered that player is progressing into 5* play and should have an easier time beating players that are still not progressing into 5* play. If you made it fully into 3* play and had a couple of 4*'s at 10+ covers you should be able to beat anything the 3* tier tosses at you easily. But 4* champ teams should be a struggle.

You would not expect to then transition into the 4* tier by champing a few 4's and have to figure out a strategy to deal with a 3* character because he makes every match for you a gamble would you? This is what's happening to the 5* players with bishop.

I bet you are a 5* player who uses Kitty all the time and you think that means you can dismiss the lower tier play based on that. Why can't I ask for a Kitty nerf when you ask for Bishop? You ask for Bishop nerf, I will ask for Kitty nerf. You can keep telling me how much you deserve to keep Kitty and I will keep telling you the opposite. And if there was a player vote over MPQ based in which is the bigger issue, I bet you that nerfing Kitty would win because Bishop is a 5* issue and nobody else gives a stuff. As long as there is R4G there are other speed teams for 4* and ThorKoye is the 5* way to go. Die Kitty, die. 

Your making this way more emotional than it needs to be. I dont want a bishop nerf (I feel like I have said this before, odd). I want a character that can counter bishop for 5* players. Much in the same way that 4* players have various means to deal with gritty. And you think because the 5* tier has thorkoye they need no other meta so you say "die kitty die"? I understand your viewpoint better now and am thoroughly done discussing this.

And be real here, Bishop alone is the problem that is being discussed at the 5* tier. Kitty needs a team built to her strengths. Alone she is no problem. 

Nibby

Leave Bishop alone! (at least until I champed him and had my fair amount of profit) 

HoundofShadow

Fine, there isn't any counter to Bishop.  So, Bishop should be nerfed. 

Besides Bishop, I think Thor should be nerfed as well because he makes thing too easy for those who have him and no 5* can generate the kind of aps that's he capable of. 5* players who have been using him are too used to that kind of free ap gain every turn, and thus, almost every 5* looks weak compared to him. Free and easy ap gain is king. 

sambrookjm

BigSoftieFF said:

Only nerf Kitty needs is on Purple. The instant overwrite is a bit much and makes some PvP events feel ridiculous.

Like against 3-star Iron Fist and 3-star Luke Cage?

Your 3-star - "Hi there.  Let's go!  *puts down a special tile*"
Enemy Kitty - "Great!  *Counters your special tile, which then goes BOOM*"
Your 3-star.  "Well, she won't do that again.  *puts down another special tile*"
Enemy Kitty - "Yes, I will do that again.  BOOM"
Your 3-star - "Third time's a charm!"
Enemy Kitty - BOOM

I skipped the Iron Fist PvP, and I'll be skipping the Luke Cage for the same reason.

BigSoftieFF

Yes @sambrookjm, I don’t like that aspect at all.

A_Wise_Man

dkffiv said:

A_Wise_Man said:

I agree that it's really a rocket problem, not a bishop problem.  Rocket has been an issue for forever, kitty just makes it worse.  Bishop was designed to counter rocket teams, hence rocket being the problem.  Easy fix for him is to have him make tiles passively like daken or valkyrie or 5* daredevil or something, not just drop a million strikes on turn 1.  Bishop is more difficult because hes actually not that great other than his automatic stun in response to match damage and hitting back 2x for all the damage he has taken. Hed likely need his whole kit retooled.  Just not having him jump in front might work though.  Build up AP and nuke him in one turn so no hitting back or stunning.  4 star guys could still use him to counter rocket teams if he tanks for the team as well.

Rocket is not the problem, Rocket actually makes Bishop easier to beat.  The AI prioritizes using the most expensive ability and thus defaults to Rocket's blue over Bishop's.  You can bring your own Kitty, BSSM (or Sabretooth if you don't mind dropping a tier) to neutralize the strike tiles. 

The problem is Bishop as the only blue user (Valk/Kitty) or with another blue stunner (Doctor Strange most commonly) your entire team ends up stunned and the AI has free reign over the board.  The four turn stun is way too long, if it was 1 turn like Miles/BSSM it'd be much easier to play around.  

You didn't read my post.  Bishop was created specifically for 4 star players to counter rocket teams.  If he had been released or rebalanced properly there wouldn't have been any need for a counter to be built.  Rocket making bishop gritty teams easier to beat by having a non stun blue ability doesnt change this fact.  It also doesnt change the fact that 4 star players dont have a 480 thorkoye like you do, so they cant just auto heal all match.  Bishop is a problem, but he was a broken character created to counter another broken character.  Rocket is the root problem here.  Has been for like 2 years.  Bishop is a problem that came from the original problem of rocket.  Fix them both.  Or release a third order even more broken 4 star that could counter bishop I suppose.  But most importantly read my posts before responding to them.

HoundofShadow

How was is it derived thar Bishop was meant to counter R4G?

Please don't tell me it's because R4G allows his team to deal high match damage from the beginning; and Bishop punishes them for that. 

Daredevil217

DAZ0273 said:

Hey @Brigby @Demiurge_Anthony @LakeStone if Bishop is nerfed can we please also at least address the Kitty Pryde yellow power issue as well that probably affects Waaaaaay more of your playerbase? Thank you.
 

I don’t know if you saw, but there’s a thread buried on page three discussing nerfing Kitty. It’s pretty much one (maybe two?) people beating this drum but they’re there.  Here’s the link for you.

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79262/nerf-kitties-that-are-below-level-450#latest


I agree with everything @tiomono said. There are tons of Kitty counters in both tiers (well really, they’re Rocket counters since he is the problem in that tier). I was one of those that stayed in the 4* tier with a fully covered Kitty (but under-leveled to stay in 4* MMR) and just beasted on teams. That’s not a Kitty problem as much as it is people manipulating MMR. There are plenty of 4* counters for truly low covered Kitties. 

I also agree with his observation that you seem to be making this emotional. It is strange that you are beating this “nerf Kitty” drum in a thread about Bishop (again, I point you to the other thread where it’d be more appropriate to the topic), especially after you wrote:

In the Nerf Bishop thread (and no, save your sanity rather than go in there!) there was basically thrown around a point that the Devs only care about "medium" players and not veterans because they hadn't nerfed Bishop yet to help 5* players.

I have no interest in rehashing that argument here (seriously if you wanna go play in that thread then take some beer with ya)

So you’re telling people not to come in this thread but continue posting in this thread yourself rather than posting the “nerf Kitty” stuff in the thread dedicated to discussing it? Weird. 

DAZ0273

I don't want Bishop nerfed if it can be avoided because he will get destroyed like they all do. It isn't really rocket science. However if he is nerfed then I would hope that the Dev's will play fair and deal with Kitty as well so she isn't in literally every PvP there is causing misery.

Sorry guys, I understand the Bishop problem and if there is a fair solution then sign me up for it. Bishop is my best tool against Kitty teams, take that away and leave her untouched then I am not going to be happy.

Anyway, I'll leave this thread be rather than argue in pointless circles.

Sm0keyJ0e

DAZ0273 said:

I don't want Bishop nerfed. It isn't really rocket science.

Get a 5* champed and you will change your tune...

DAZ0273

Sm0keyJ0e said:

DAZ0273 said:

I don't want Bishop nerfed. It isn't really rocket science.

Get a 5* champed and you will change your tune...

Fair enough but obviously we can only deal with the situation facing us. I hadn't actually finished my post (hit post too soon) so hopefully you'll see my perspective in the edited version isn't completely narrow or without sympathy for 5* players. ☺

Anyway, I am adding nothing useful to this thread so I will bow out and hope you guys get a solution to Bishop which doesn't screw me over too hard.

Rod5

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

The rockett said:

Hey @Brigby @Demiurge_Anthony @LakeStone
Is the Dev team aware of these concerns?  Any questions or comments?  

Hey @Brigby @Demiurge_Anthony @LakeStone if Bishop is nerfed can we please also at least address the Kitty Pryde yellow power issue as well that probably affects Waaaaaay more of your playerbase? Thank you.
 

Adress it with what? A 4 star counter? Like say prowler, sabertooth, thanos, kraven, magik, Emma (ha ha), dazzler,  juggernaut, mehulk, etc etc etc, that all give you special removal, steal, boardshake, resistance vs match damage etc etc you get the idea. 

Or maybe a 5 star counter like bssm, thorkoye (who actually out damage and out sustain gritty), or iceman with his cheap stun and damage mitigation.

The only kitties that are a problem in the 4 star tier are ones well covered. If they are not well covered they are easily countered by a large variety of strategies and characters.

And if they are well covered that player is progressing into 5* play and should have an easier time beating players that are still not progressing into 5* play. If you made it fully into 3* play and had a couple of 4*'s at 10+ covers you should be able to beat anything the 3* tier tosses at you easily. But 4* champ teams should be a struggle.

You would not expect to then transition into the 4* tier by champing a few 4's and have to figure out a strategy to deal with a 3* character because he makes every match for you a gamble would you? This is what's happening to the 5* players with bishop.

I bet you are a 5* player who uses Kitty all the time and you think that means you can dismiss the lower tier play based on that. Why can't I ask for a Kitty nerf when you ask for Bishop? You ask for Bishop nerf, I will ask for Kitty nerf. You can keep telling me how much you deserve to keep Kitty and I will keep telling you the opposite. And if there was a player vote over MPQ based in which is the bigger issue, I bet you that nerfing Kitty would win because Bishop is a 5* issue and nobody else gives a stuff. As long as there is R4G there are other speed teams for 4* and ThorKoye is the 5* way to go. Die Kitty, die. 

Can you use a different thread for this - the discussion is about Bishop, not whatever your agenda is.

bluewolf

Bishop is severely nerfing my interest in the off season PVPs. Earth’s Mightiest?  Black Vortex?

It really doesn’t matter what you call it. Grittyshop pvp anyone?

JackDeath666

There is no fun for anyone in Shield Sim after a point. All opponents are the same and you have no choice but to mirror that and with poor odds on winning even then. I find it staggering that this isn't seen as an issue by some people on this thread. You can't even match 3! Why doesn't that register? It is ridiculous. Kitty and RnG are a tough match for sure, but not unfair or unbeatable. The comparison is completely wrong. 

Daredevil217

As an example, to beat seeds in LR I used to play Gritty when they were still new and could float for an easy T100. Lately I’ve been getting murderered playing that pair, as it just isn’t as scary as it once was. 

Ive since switched to Bishop/JJ and I maybe get hit once a LR and am back to floating for T50-100 finishes. Bishop doesn’t even fuel Jessica! That’s the insane thing. But people don’t lIke having their whole team stun locked all match for doing nothing, and so they would rather attack BOTH Kitty and Rocket than Bishop. That’s saying a lot.

Similarly in Sim, I climbed to over 2K a few days ago and have yet to be hit using Gritshop. My Kitty is unchamped and still people won’t mess with me because of the Bishop effect. ALL defensive teams I see do not contain Kitty. But all contain Bishop. I’ve seen him paired with Thor, Okoye, Strange, Jessica (and yes, Kitty/Grocket). 

A_Wise_Man

HoundofShadow said:

How was is it derived thar Bishop was meant to counter R4G?

Please don't tell me it's because R4G allows his team to deal high match damage from the beginning; and Bishop punishes them for that. 

That's pretty much it yeah.  That's what most 4 star players I've talked to use him for, to counter rocket teams.  Hes good for that, but being paired with 5 stars or in 5 star mmr hes totally broken.  But if rocket wasn't broken there wouldnt be a need to release a broken bishop.  And I imagine we see an even more broken bishop counter rather than rebalancing the first 2.  That should be "fun"