Nerf Bishop

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  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    Sorry to spoil your block party, but whist Gambit was indeed nerfed into the ground, SOME players still do use him in regular PvP.  Not many but some, mostly with Black Bolt but occasionally with others, including a couple of players who have him at 500+ and elected not to sell.

    And the problems with using 4* characters in regular PvP are (I) if boosted a lot of 4*s still trigger Bishop's passive, and (ii) he's partnered with strong champed 5*s who will roll over any 4*s not high enough to trigger him.

    If you want to brainstorm ways to beat him I'd welcome your suggestions.  But in my opinion he is simply broken when used by/against 5* tier players (and again even decently levelled boosted 4*s).  The devs should admit that and balance him.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Let's start with the smallest change needed to make Bishop easier for 5* players:

    Since the common team with Bishop is Gritty, then if his red ability simply includes this additional condition:

    If his teammates take x damage and if Bishop has more health than the targeted or front ally, he jumps in front.

    Will this Bishop be easier to deal with? 

    Because champed Kitty is going to have more health than Bishop, thus Bishop won't be triggered into activating both his red passive, followed by his blue passive when you attack Kitty or 370 R4G.


  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    I am still perplexed Devs have not nerfed him already, they have not even said anything about this!

    At least with other broken chars, you could bring those and win the fight (the problem was for people not having those, which was a big problem). With Bishop not even that works, it is way worse, as he even breaks his ceiling, and makes life miserable for people using the tier of chars above him! Which should NEVER be the case in games like this one (specially once you have decided the massive power difference between 4s and 5s).

    PvP is HORRIBLE right now, between Bishop and Gritty. The most boring thing EVER. Not worth it all.

    DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT DEVS!

    The only explanation is that Devs don't care about 5 players really, they just care about 'new' players, and obviously Bishop helps medium level players destroy veteran players (that or they life in a bubble and they don't really know what really happens with their game).
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,268 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only explanation is that Devs don't care about 5 players really, they just care about 'new' players, and obviously Bishop helps medium level players destroy veteran players (that or they life in a bubble and they don't really know what really happens with their game).


    So what qualifies as a "veteran player" then?
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,805 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    @purplemur

    Just to touch on the Gambit nerf (and other nerfs they have done); no player has screamed for any character to be nerfed to unusability.  The developers just have always not bothered in general to adjust characters in small ways, but to change every power and generally make them barely usable, or even worse than much of the tier.

    I am sure there are many players who would have been happy to be able to run Gambit sometimes after he was nerfed. (Putting aside issues of the meta being very focused on a few characters; Gambit is never run but the same could be said for 90% of the tier.  How many times have you run into, say, Cable or Ghost Rider in your play?)

    Oh, and once you run some 5's you can't just play a team of 4's and have that be your defensive team.  The game was adjusted a while ago to stop people from running easy grills that way so players would both see your champed 5 team out, and the game will keep matching you to other champed 5's since that's your roster level.

    The only way to see champed 4 teams to fight is to only use your 4's from the beginning of the PVP. 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    purplemur said:
    so please help me understand, 
    As i know the MMR if I run all 4* chars that will be my defensive team vs my defensive team being the last team I ran that consisted of all 3*'s?
    So if you been grinding above the MMR point differential with 5* teams and then ran 4* gamorshop you would still be defending with the last highest level team?
    So why would you be "Slaughtered" if you hunted bishop teams with 4* combos?
    And if your t20 aren't you facing the same people all the time anyway? who all understand and run the meta to ahem be meta.... so ... uhm.... how will the next meta not be boring and ubiquitous also? ya'll hated on gambit for 9 months and they nerfed him to deaf. to the tinykitty grave. NOBODY. i mean NOBODY runs him in wild. great "fix". is that balance from all the time to never? seems...extreme. So now only those players who run all 5* teams all the time only in PvP need a character totally ruined in every other aspect in the game for every other player outside the top .02%?

    just stop ruining the game for the rest of us.  I have to fight 5* teams that outmatch me all day long, bishop helps me, he traveled back in time to stop Apoc and he'll stop you too ya big bully.
    Let's brainstorm ways to beat him not nerf him!
    Because the bishop teams 5* players face are bishop with 1 or 2 5* champ partners. So if you build a team of all 4*'s just to try and counter bishop, you are likely losing the match as you still have to deal with his 5* champ team.

    The only bully in this scenario is bishop, not a player interested in using their highest leveled characters. 

    If you have a brainstorm to beat a character that gains more ap and does more damage to you just for matching 3 on your own turn I would love to hear it.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    purplemur said:
    so please help me understand, 
    As i know the MMR if I run all 4* chars that will be my defensive team vs my defensive team being the last team I ran that consisted of all 3*'s?
    So if you been grinding above the MMR point differential with 5* teams and then ran 4* gamorshop you would still be defending with the last highest level team?
    So why would you be "Slaughtered" if you hunted bishop teams with 4* combos?
    And if your t20 aren't you facing the same people all the time anyway? who all understand and run the meta to ahem be meta.... so ... uhm.... how will the next meta not be boring and ubiquitous also? ya'll hated on gambit for 9 months and they nerfed him to deaf. to the tinykitty grave. NOBODY. i mean NOBODY runs him in wild. great "fix". is that balance from all the time to never? seems...extreme. So now only those players who run all 5* teams all the time only in PvP need a character totally ruined in every other aspect in the game for every other player outside the top .02%?

    just stop ruining the game for the rest of us.  I have to fight 5* teams that outmatch me all day long, bishop helps me, he traveled back in time to stop Apoc and he'll stop you too ya big bully.
    Let's brainstorm ways to beat him not nerf him!
    So, with my roster I can reliably beat most dual 550 teams.  However, I will lose most of the time to a 500 JJ with bishop or a 500 strange with bishop.  Strange is the worst partner for him as far as being able to beat him.  Cant fire any powers or you get hit, cant hit strange first or bishop jumps in front.  Cant match 3 or strange stuns you and you get hit for 9k per turn while stunned.  Again, I'd like the 4 star guys to play against a bishop that triggers off of 200 hit points so that just matching 3 makes your team stunlocked.  If you cant even play what strategies are there?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Polares said:
    I am still perplexed Devs have not nerfed him already, they have not even said anything about this!

    To be fair to the devs, they have not said anything about anything whatsoever. Brigby shows up to remove profanity here and there, but that's been about the extent of any communication in quite some time. 
    @Demiurge_Anthony did show up not too long ago to say that 4* Juggernaut was not working with Wakanda Forever! by design, even though it's functionally identical to 2* Widow's passive that does work with it, so...shrug?
  • Sm0keyJ0e
    Sm0keyJ0e Posts: 730 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Polares said:
    I am still perplexed Devs have not nerfed him already, they have not even said anything about this!

    To be fair to the devs, they have not said anything about anything whatsoever. Brigby shows up to remove profanity here and there, but that's been about the extent of any communication in quite some time. 
    @Demiurge_Anthony did show up not too long ago to say that 4* Juggernaut was not working with Wakanda Forever! by design, even though it's functionally identical to 2* Widow's passive that does work with it, so...shrug?
    Don't think they are functionally identical. Juggs does team damage on a match. OBW does extra damage when she makes a match. It even says so in the power description. So she does match damage then extra damage, two separate damage packets.

    But that's off topic. The real topic is how soon we can get a nerf to Bishop.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:

    Don't think they are functionally identical. Juggs does team damage on a match. OBW does extra damage when she makes a match. It even says so in the power description. So she does match damage then extra damage, two separate damage packets.

    But that's off topic. The real topic is how soon we can get a nerf to Bishop.
    Juggernaut does do a second packet of team damage on his passive after his match damage resolves, but I agree this is a digression.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,957 Chairperson of the Boards
    purplemur said:
    so please help me understand, 
    As i know the MMR if I run all 4* chars that will be my defensive team vs my defensive team being the last team I ran that consisted of all 3*'s?
    So if you been grinding above the MMR point differential with 5* teams and then ran 4* gamorshop you would still be defending with the last highest level team?
    So why would you be "Slaughtered" if you hunted bishop teams with 4* combos?
    And if your t20 aren't you facing the same people all the time anyway? who all understand and run the meta to ahem be meta.... so ... uhm.... how will the next meta not be boring and ubiquitous also? ya'll hated on gambit for 9 months and they nerfed him to deaf. to the tinykitty grave. NOBODY. i mean NOBODY runs him in wild. great "fix". is that balance from all the time to never? seems...extreme. So now only those players who run all 5* teams all the time only in PvP need a character totally ruined in every other aspect in the game for every other player outside the top .02%?

    just stop ruining the game for the rest of us.  I have to fight 5* teams that outmatch me all day long, bishop helps me, he traveled back in time to stop Apoc and he'll stop you too ya big bully.
    Let's brainstorm ways to beat him not nerf him!
    I think you’re probably right that running an all 4* team will not impact your defensive team.  But the thing people keep failing to understand is that when we say we want to “beat Bishop”, we mean beat Bishop as well as the team constructed around him. At my level, a team of all 4* can’t really hang against 5* teams (especially 5* teams that include broken Bishop). 

    I don’t think people want him nerfed because he’s boring. I don’t know where that argument came from. It’s because he stun locks your whole team just for matching 3. 

    No one is asking for him to be completely ruined (though I wouldn’t mind if he were nerfed into obscurity personally). We just want the broken mechanics nerfed so we can actually play the game again.

    As for the brainstorming session. I asked how to counter him as a 5* player  without Surfer pages ago and the only response I got was from a 4* player saying that “you actually have Surfer on my roster, stop misleading!”. Other than that, not one single suggestion
    on how to actually beat Bishop. 

    Gritty was a problem for the 4* tier? They actually made strong counter characters to deal with it. Where’s our Prowler, Thanos, and Sabretooth to help deal with Bishop!?  Instead, we’ve just been given a slew of X-Men to team WITH him. Even if they did create a 5* counter, it can take 3-6 months to build up the resources needed to champ a 5, and you’re still praying to rng gods you get them. So the Bish meta stays far longer than it should. 4* are MUCH easier to acquire in a small amount of time. But making the counter a 4 results in that same problem of having to run a 4 when you’re a 5* player. Which sucks when we spend so much time and effort building these characters. 

    Nerf Bishop. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,268 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    Daredevil217 said:



    As for the brainstorming session. I asked how to counter him as a 5* player  without Surfer pages ago and the only response I got was from a 4* player saying that “you actually have Surfer on my roster, stop misleading!”. Other than that, not one single suggestion
    on how to actually beat Bishop. 


    That was me! :D

    Oh and the reason I did it? For your own good. You are asking the Devs to do something that impacts other players - come in with clean hands and make sure your facts are correct. This isn't a small thing you want, be honest like you have in your later posts and there is no need to provide inaccurate factual information to try and press your agenda.

    Just sayin' and hopefully no hard feelings. :)
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2019
    @Daredevil217 Do you have Nata5ha? I don't, well, i do but at 2/0/0, but her black passive could potentially give you a shot or 2 at bishop assuming you can arrange someone else to tank the stun on opponent turn 1. Would Natasha/Daredevil/Okoye get to work fast enough to do it?

    The current meta counters all seem to be long-in-the-tooth (and therefore highly impractical to acquire for those that don't already have them) characters, so if the question is "who do I use that's recent," I'd also like to know since I don't have and will likely never get any of those older 5s to a useable state.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is how we bring supports to versus. A cross promotion with nerf. We can have nerf guns, nerf bats, etc. They can be tailored to counter characters like bishop.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    Why is it only a 33% chance? Is that assuming you bring a Thorkoye team where he may or may not be in front or something?
  • LLohm
    LLohm Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Because the stun that Natasha does is random
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,439 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ah, got it. as you were then.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Polares said:
    I am still perplexed Devs have not nerfed him already, they have not even said anything about this!

    To be fair to the devs, they have not said anything about anything whatsoever. Brigby shows up to remove profanity here and there, but that's been about the extent of any communication in quite some time.
    Well, you are obviously right, but that it is a BIG problem on its own. Devs should not engage on everything, but sincerely this has been on and on for a while now and it is a big problem for a big group of players. With Gambit they were more proactive and he was a 5! Nerfing a 4 is nowhere as bad.We need balance restored!!!



    DAZ0273 a veteran for me is anybody that has played for more than 3 years regularly trying to get top rewards (at least during most of that time). Any one in this group can be a 5 player if wanted to, but he can also remain in 4 land because it is more fun in general.

    I consider myself a veteran as I played for 2000+ days already, and I played quite strong for a pretty long time. I have been casual for maybe a year or more, as sadly the game, even though it still can be used to kill time some times, have been in a downward spiral for quite some time, and it is not as fun as it used to be.

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