Nerf Bishop
Comments
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ThaRoadWarrior said:Alternatively a 4*/5* that could shut down passives would solve this problem. I've proposed it a number of times. tie it to a special tile that only appears at start of match, until it's matched away or destroyed similar to Chekhov's Gun. Or make it countdown based- since it would be shutting down Kitty's purple, it would be safe to have out.There's already a mechanic that deals with passives: stunning. And, let's be clear, we all know that Bishop is defined by passives so this is really just a roundabout way to design a character that says "Bishop is stunned for the entire match", with the added kick that every other character that leans on passives is also pretty much gutted. Then again, maybe crippling half the 5-stars on defense is exactly the kind of design the meta needs these days.0
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HoundofShadow said:After over 20 pages, both sides can only agree to disagree.
Therefore, a middle ground would be to create a 4* or 5* that can stun characters who gain aps that are not stolen from opponents' ap pools passively.
For every ap gain passively that is not stolen, stun that character for that amount of turn.1 -
We can put a cap, like up to 3 turn or 4 turn.0
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The idea of a character that negates passives is not new with Bishop; he's just the most annoying expression of passives yet.
It would be such a massive nerf to so many characters, and probably buggy as all get out, to have this ability in the game.
I'm sure that character would be relative garbage beyond that ability.
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bluewolf said:The idea of a character that negates passives is not new with Bishop; he's just the most annoying expression of passives yet.
It would be such a massive nerf to so many characters, and probably buggy as all get out, to have this ability in the game.
I'm sure that character would be relative garbage beyond that ability.0 -
HoundofShadow said:After over 20 pages, both sides can only agree to disagree.
Therefore, a middle ground would be to create a 4* or 5* that can stun characters who gain aps that are not stolen from opponents' ap pools passively.
For every ap gain passively that is not stolen, stun that character for that amount of turn.
The problem is, that if it is a character, it MUST be a 5, as 5 land players should be able to use a full 5 team as we were doing before Bishop was released. BUT then, we have the problem that covering a 5 is pretty hard, so this is a BIG BIG problem. They would have to give him for free or make him more available than other 5s and this won't happen.
The only feasible solution is a nerf.
Sincerely, I would not even call it a nerf. This is a fix. Bishop was a massive bug, he was released broken, his design was completely broken from the beginning, and it should be fixed ASAP.7 -
tiomono said:bluewolf said:The idea of a character that negates passives is not new with Bishop; he's just the most annoying expression of passives yet.
It would be such a massive nerf to so many characters, and probably buggy as all get out, to have this ability in the game.
I'm sure that character would be relative garbage beyond that ability.
While that would finally solve the 3* Carol glitch in wave nodes, it comes at the expense of 4* Carol, Miles, Medusa and probably others while totally removing the downside of some character powers like 3* Black Panther, Ares, Namor and possibly others there, too. I'm not saying this means that the passive shouldn't exist, but we at least need to acknowledge the theoretical power you describe has a much wider impact than merely toning down Bishop.
I'd prefer if Bishop was given a condition for his "jump to front" mechanic like literally every other character who has that mechanic. It doesn't gut the character while still providing a method to circumvent him...or, you know, a puzzle.
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ZootSax said:
I'd prefer if Bishop was given a condition for his "jump to front" mechanic like literally every other character who has that mechanic. It doesn't gut the character while still providing a method to circumvent him...or, you know, a puzzle.1 -
ZootSax said:tiomono said:bluewolf said:The idea of a character that negates passives is not new with Bishop; he's just the most annoying expression of passives yet.
It would be such a massive nerf to so many characters, and probably buggy as all get out, to have this ability in the game.
I'm sure that character would be relative garbage beyond that ability.
While that would finally solve the 3* Carol glitch in wave nodes, it comes at the expense of 4* Carol, Miles, Medusa and probably others while totally removing the downside of some character powers like 3* Black Panther, Ares, Namor and possibly others there, too. I'm not saying this means that the passive shouldn't exist, but we at least need to acknowledge the theoretical power you describe has a much wider impact than merely toning down Bishop.
I'd prefer if Bishop was given a condition for his "jump to front" mechanic like literally every other character who has that mechanic. It doesn't gut the character while still providing a method to circumvent him...or, you know, a puzzle.1 -
tiomono said:ZootSax said:tiomono said:bluewolf said:The idea of a character that negates passives is not new with Bishop; he's just the most annoying expression of passives yet.
It would be such a massive nerf to so many characters, and probably buggy as all get out, to have this ability in the game.
I'm sure that character would be relative garbage beyond that ability.
While that would finally solve the 3* Carol glitch in wave nodes, it comes at the expense of 4* Carol, Miles, Medusa and probably others while totally removing the downside of some character powers like 3* Black Panther, Ares, Namor and possibly others there, too. I'm not saying this means that the passive shouldn't exist, but we at least need to acknowledge the theoretical power you describe has a much wider impact than merely toning down Bishop.
I'd prefer if Bishop was given a condition for his "jump to front" mechanic like literally every other character who has that mechanic. It doesn't gut the character while still providing a method to circumvent him...or, you know, a puzzle.
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I’d settle for his passive only being able to trigger once per move. Then if you get a lucky cascade you don’t get stunlocked 😂
He could still stun in turn 2 but you would at least maybe able to strategize who you want stunned.1 -
I think @BriMan2222 said it most eloquently in another thread.Bishop on the other hand punishes you for making match 3's in a match 3 game.2
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Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "****?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.
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Sm0keyJ0e said:Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "tinykitty?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.0 -
DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "tinykitty?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.
Because she can get 5-30 blue after 1 turn against most of the e5's and stun-lock the enemy team for the cost of 1 health pack?
And my point is, everyone who encounters what Bishop does for the first time in PVP thinks the same thing as her.0 -
Sm0keyJ0e said:DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "tinykitty?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.
Because she can get 5-30 blue after 1 turn against most of the e5's and stun-lock the enemy team for the cost of 1 health pack?
And my point is, everyone who encounters what Bishop does for the first time in PVP thinks the same thing as her.0 -
DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "tinykitty?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.
Because she can get 5-30 blue after 1 turn against most of the e5's and stun-lock the enemy team for the cost of 1 health pack?
And my point is, everyone who encounters what Bishop does for the first time in PVP thinks the same thing as her.
Well then clearly you don't play cl9 in PVE and have no idea what Bishop does. Sorry you don't get that. And no, it's not a Sim problem. He's in every PVP. He's abused the most in PVP's where you can choose 3 toons, but he's everywhere.
I think the disconnect is that you're not a 5* player, so you have a completely different MMR in PVP.1 -
Sm0keyJ0e said:DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:DAZ0273 said:Sm0keyJ0e said:Pretty good example of what's going on:
Wife has been playing for years, several champed 5*'s, only plays PVE (like, literally doesn't touch PVP). She has never understood my chagrin for Bishop.
Simulator, Sub 2, loud yelling from another room in the house: "tinykitty?! Why is my entire team stunned??"
After the simple explanation, she now wants to bonus Bishop and devote all resources into him, which I reckon is roughly the same for everyone else once they realize how he works.
Because she can get 5-30 blue after 1 turn against most of the e5's and stun-lock the enemy team for the cost of 1 health pack?
And my point is, everyone who encounters what Bishop does for the first time in PVP thinks the same thing as her.
Well then clearly you don't play cl9 in PVE and have no idea what Bishop does. Sorry you don't get that. And no, it's not a Sim problem. He's in every PVP. He's abused the most in PVP's where you can choose 3 toons, but he's everywhere.
I think the disconnect is that you're not a 5* player, so you have a completely different MMR in PVP.0 -
I already mentioned earlier, but if I run Gritty or Thorkoye against LR seeds teams, I get smashed down to the 250 iso reward off retals. If I play with unboosted Bishop, I come back later to 1-2 Heroic tokens. Any pick-3 PvP has a wall of Bishop. And I’m seeing him more and more in pick-2. I can’t wait until I get Iceman champed (opening the hoard Monday!). I imagine not many will want to tangle with Iceshop on defense. But I could be wrong.0
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Lightning Rounds are weird though. No offence but Pick 3 PvP will rarely effect your season so can you, hand on your heart really say you are still not hitting 2000 in Sim or achieving what you want in PVP? Considering most PvP is "fixed" at high levels of play via grills if those players are putting out Bishop "grills" then I am going to be fairly surprised.0
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