Nerf Bishop

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Comments

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe the devs should stop coming up with X-men characters. Since the introduction of 5* for the elder game, X-men characters have been contributing to the majority of controversies for veterans:

    1) OML
    2) Gambit
    3) Kitty Pryde
    4) Bishop
    5) Professor X (Classic)

     :o 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,957 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Maybe the devs should stop coming up with X-men characters. Since the introduction of 5* for the elder game, X-men characters have been contributing to the majority of controversies for veterans:

    1) OML
    2) Gambit
    3) Kitty Pryde
    4) Bishop
    5) Professor X (Classic)

     :o 

    You can add Juggs to the list soon I’d imagine. He’s going to be a problem for the 4* tier. 
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,207 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,278 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    The big difference though is that 4 stars aren't nearly as hard to cover as 5 stars so I don't think nerfing a 4 star will cause nearly as much outrage as with a 5 star.  I doubt nearly as many people joined buy clubs trying to get bishop covers as there were people who did with old man logan or Gambit.

    The last time I can remember a 4 star nerf causing legitimate outrage was when they nerfed X-fForce wolvie and Jane Foster, but that was because there were no 5 stars yet and those 2 were the strongest characters in the game, and just like with bishop those 2 were on the majority of teams in pvp.

    When carnage, Mr Fantastic, Kingpin, etc. got reworks I remember some people being upset but it was like 2 or 3 pages of "Oh man, that kinda sucks"  As opposed to with OML and Gambit with pages upon pages of people saying they were quiting the game over it.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,957 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    Bowgentle said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
    You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    tiomono said:
    Bowgentle said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
    You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.
    I get that, but are you floating at meaningful points, like 1K+?
    Else why bother when you can grab 75 point retals when you start your final climb.
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Bowgentle said:
    tiomono said:
    Bowgentle said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
    You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.
    I get that, but are you floating at meaningful points, like 1K+?
    Else why bother when you can grab 75 point retals when you start your final climb.
    Have to agree here. When I float I use a drop grill more often than not. I want to be hit when floating 😂 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    tiomono said:
    Bowgentle said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    tiomono said:
    DyingLegend said:
    Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?

    I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.

    Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution. 
    I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.
    Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs. 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
    You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.
    I get that, but are you floating at meaningful points, like 1K+?
    Else why bother when you can grab 75 point retals when you start your final climb.
    For me personally, I never shield. I get to 575 for my cp then let it coast. I could do more but I have other hobbies and responsibilities. I realize now Bishop let's me place much higher than I would with any other character. So I may as well abuse it... I mean, use it while I can. He is a massive scarecrow for 450-460 5* players. So I may as well use this perfectly balanced character /sarcasm.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

        Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    A_Wise_Man said:
    I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

        Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  
    I literally started using him because of this discussion. If the devs are ok leaving a character like this in the game, I'm ok using him while he is in this state. 

    I find the character frustrating and obnoxious so I avoid him alot. So I may as well use that thought process to help me score a smidge higher than I would putting in the same effort with other characters.

    I want something done about him no doubt. Until that happens, either through a counter, nerf, or just better option, I am gonna ride the Bishop train. Choo choo.

    Edit: about 20 hours in with no shield. I have 3 losses and 3 wins on defense. Gritty can't do that.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    What's more interesting is who did you lose to for those 3 losses?
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2019
    HoundofShadow said:
    What's more interesting is who did you lose to for those 3 losses?
    I dont know what boosts they use or teamups. So its incomplete data at best. 

    5* players can beat bishop, but it is a roll of the dice every time. For reasons that we have laid out over and over in this discussion.
     
    No other character can get a 50/50 split on defense like bishop does at my level. And only 6 hits in 22 hours. My next best team will have taken 10 to 20 losses in this time, and maybe 2 wins, compared to bishops 3 wins 3 losses.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    A_Wise_Man said:
    I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

        Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  
    Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit).  Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.

    Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    edited September 2019
    dkffiv said:
    A_Wise_Man said:
    I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

        Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  
    Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit).  Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.

    Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
    Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better.  At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used.  S1,3,4 and 5.  As well as  the "secret" rooms.  Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there.  So why bother coordinating?
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    Bowgentle said:
    . 
    I don't get these posts.
    Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
    What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
    Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
    Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.

    Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
    People float at 1400+ in regular PvPs with Bishop out.  You mash skip and you keep queuing them. 

    If your main team is Gritty theres a very high chance you outright lose if Kitty gets stunned.  If your main team is Thorkoye theres a very high chance your Thor will have very low hp even if you win (Thor takes Bishops counter damage depending on how the tiles fall).  If your Thor is too low you'll need to heal him then go back a safer hp range - all this takes time.

    In simulator you need to beat 7 or so Bishop teams in a row without getting hit to go from 1800 to 2000.  If you dont use your own Bishop you'll get chain hit because every other queuable team at 1800 has him.  It's getting worse every season because everyone's Bishops are getting higher and higher.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    A_Wise_Man said:
    dkffiv said:
    A_Wise_Man said:
    I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

        Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  
    Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit).  Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.

    Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
    Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better.  At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used.  S1,3,4 and 5.  As well as  the "secret" rooms.  Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there.  So why bother coordinating?
    The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them.  That's the whole point of coordinating.

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