Nerf Bishop
Comments
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Have to agree here. When I float I use a drop grill more often than not. I want to be hit when floating 😂Bowgentle said:
I get that, but are you floating at meaningful points, like 1K+?tiomono said:
You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.Bowgentle said:
I don't get these posts.Daredevil217 said:
Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs.tiomono said:
I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.DyingLegend said:Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?
I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.
Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution.
Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.
Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
Else why bother when you can grab 75 point retals when you start your final climb.1 -
For me personally, I never shield. I get to 575 for my cp then let it coast. I could do more but I have other hobbies and responsibilities. I realize now Bishop let's me place much higher than I would with any other character. So I may as well abuse it... I mean, use it while I can. He is a massive scarecrow for 450-460 5* players. So I may as well use this perfectly balanced character /sarcasm.Bowgentle said:
I get that, but are you floating at meaningful points, like 1K+?tiomono said:
You get dramatically fewer retals leaving him on defense and not shielding. I'm about 16 hours unshielded in dooms event and only 3 hits.Bowgentle said:
I don't get these posts.Daredevil217 said:
Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs.tiomono said:
I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.DyingLegend said:Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?
I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.
Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution.
Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.
Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
Else why bother when you can grab 75 point retals when you start your final climb.1 -
I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.3 -
I literally started using him because of this discussion. If the devs are ok leaving a character like this in the game, I'm ok using him while he is in this state.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
I find the character frustrating and obnoxious so I avoid him alot. So I may as well use that thought process to help me score a smidge higher than I would putting in the same effort with other characters.
I want something done about him no doubt. Until that happens, either through a counter, nerf, or just better option, I am gonna ride the Bishop train. Choo choo.
Edit: about 20 hours in with no shield. I have 3 losses and 3 wins on defense. Gritty can't do that.0 -
What's more interesting is who did you lose to for those 3 losses?
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I dont know what boosts they use or teamups. So its incomplete data at best.HoundofShadow said:What's more interesting is who did you lose to for those 3 losses?
5* players can beat bishop, but it is a roll of the dice every time. For reasons that we have laid out over and over in this discussion.
No other character can get a 50/50 split on defense like bishop does at my level. And only 6 hits in 22 hours. My next best team will have taken 10 to 20 losses in this time, and maybe 2 wins, compared to bishops 3 wins 3 losses.3 -
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.0 -
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
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People float at 1400+ in regular PvPs with Bishop out. You mash skip and you keep queuing them.Bowgentle said:
.I don't get these posts.
Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.
Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.
If your main team is Gritty theres a very high chance you outright lose if Kitty gets stunned. If your main team is Thorkoye theres a very high chance your Thor will have very low hp even if you win (Thor takes Bishops counter damage depending on how the tiles fall). If your Thor is too low you'll need to heal him then go back a safer hp range - all this takes time.
In simulator you need to beat 7 or so Bishop teams in a row without getting hit to go from 1800 to 2000. If you dont use your own Bishop you'll get chain hit because every other queuable team at 1800 has him. It's getting worse every season because everyone's Bishops are getting higher and higher.0 -
The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them. That's the whole point of coordinating.A_Wise_Man said:
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.0 -
I agree that's how it's supposed to work.....but I would bet everyone who's in a room has had someone call out their team on a hop and found it to be Bishop, at least once. And you think "thanks, but no thanks".dkffiv said:
The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them. That's the whole point of coordinating.A_Wise_Man said:
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.0 -
I definitely see people from check rooms hop to very high scores using bishop teams and never use a grill team. Just float and climb. So it's definitely a thing, they're only helping themselves.bluewolf said:
I agree that's how it's supposed to work.....but I would bet everyone who's in a room has had someone call out their team on a hop and found it to be Bishop, at least once. And you think "thanks, but no thanks".dkffiv said:
The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them. That's the whole point of coordinating.A_Wise_Man said:
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
As far as cupcake teams, I disagree with dkffiv that they're the point of coordinating. They're a byproduct of coordination in specific shards. 2 and 5 coordinate but they don't cupcake.0 -
I switched my focus to 75 wins for the sim. just climb, hit the bishop wall, stop and hit your retals. made it from 30ish wins to 75 in a day. 95% of them will be bishop free. much easier and less stressful.Bowgentle said:
I don't get these posts.Daredevil217 said:
Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs.tiomono said:
I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.DyingLegend said:Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?
I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.
Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution.
Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.
Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.1 -
This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.0 -
The fact that you consider any non-Bishop team a cupcake means you acknowledge that hes a problem.A_Wise_Man said:
As far as cupcake teams, I disagree with dkffiv that they're the point of coordinating. They're a byproduct of coordination in specific shards. 2 and 5 coordinate but they don't cupcake.3 -
32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.1 -
If you don't use him that's one less person using him. If half the people complaining about him didn't use him that's a much smaller wall to pass. Idk, maybe it's just me. The way I see it you don't get to cause the problem and also complain about the problem you're helping to cause. *That* makes zero sense. I don't run him partly because he's garbage to run on offense, but partly because I'm not interested in being part of the problem.Daredevil217 said:
This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.2 -
tiomono said:32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.Yes, Bishop is a problem.But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.4 -
That's a fair observation. Bishop is "working" for my playstyle.Bowgentle said:tiomono said:32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.Yes, Bishop is a problem.But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.
@A_Wise_Man
The players did not create the problem. The players are using something in game that was given to them by the devs. I felt similar to you on the topic of tapping. Several players were vocal about it. They encouraged all players to jump on the tap train. I pushed back out of frustration using the same argument you are right now. "Do not be the thing you hate". Its not clear whether or not the tapping discussions got tapping wiped out. But tapping did get wiped out. It is not wrong to use something in a game that is designed and given to you by the game designers. If it's a problem the responsibility lies on the devs to fix it.
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The tapping thing....is an excellent analogy to Bishop.
Tapping was only impacting a few players at the top of the game, really. It was growing, as far as I can tell, as a practice but I believe there was never going to be a huge number of players doing it. For the obvious reason that time limitations would preclude a lot of people from starting it, and the relatively low ROI meant many players those with the time to engage in it probably considered it a waste of time.
BUT, the developers fixed it because (maybe):
1. It did impact the top players
2. It somewhat negated the benefit of roster development, as players with relatively low level rosters could tap away with success and beat people who had spent money (and/or much more time) on the game.
3. Ultimately leaving tapping in place would have driven some top players to give up on the game or otherwise reduce engagement.
In many ways Bishop is the same.
1. He is a problem primarily for players who have spent a lot of time/and or money on the game to build a champed 5* roster.
2. A low level Bishop is fine and functions just as well (maybe better) as a 370 Bishop, as the threshold is lower and so he triggers more. So just about any player who managed to champ him is in good shape.
3. His presence in the PVPs where he is heavily utilized means people are playing those events less and/or not bothering, and also not using HP on shields since more players go for wins when he's on lots of the high point floating teams.
IMO a random Discord comment is not official developer policy, and it is not supposed to be, and an official statement here on the forum seems warranted given the amount of discussion that is happening.9
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