Nerf Bishop
Comments
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I agree that's how it's supposed to work.....but I would bet everyone who's in a room has had someone call out their team on a hop and found it to be Bishop, at least once. And you think "thanks, but no thanks".dkffiv said:
The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them. That's the whole point of coordinating.A_Wise_Man said:
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.0 -
I definitely see people from check rooms hop to very high scores using bishop teams and never use a grill team. Just float and climb. So it's definitely a thing, they're only helping themselves.bluewolf said:
I agree that's how it's supposed to work.....but I would bet everyone who's in a room has had someone call out their team on a hop and found it to be Bishop, at least once. And you think "thanks, but no thanks".dkffiv said:
The check rooms call out when their non-Bishop (i.e. easy to beat) is out so the room can q them. That's the whole point of coordinating.A_Wise_Man said:
Shield coordination rooms are there to help each other score higher and place better. At least that's been the case in every shield check room I've ever used. S1,3,4 and 5. As well as the "secret" rooms. Putting a bishop out helps only you, not the other people there. So why bother coordinating?dkffiv said:
Shield coordination rooms are where you post what your score is, when you will be hopping, when it is safe to queue, and when you shield (when it's safe to hit). Putting a Bishop out would reduce the chances of being hit in the window that you aren't shielded - all seems pretty self explanatory to me.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
Not sure why you are confused, you should really learn the basics of the game before commenting on character interactions.
As far as cupcake teams, I disagree with dkffiv that they're the point of coordinating. They're a byproduct of coordination in specific shards. 2 and 5 coordinate but they don't cupcake.0 -
I switched my focus to 75 wins for the sim. just climb, hit the bishop wall, stop and hit your retals. made it from 30ish wins to 75 in a day. 95% of them will be bishop free. much easier and less stressful.Bowgentle said:
I don't get these posts.Daredevil217 said:
Same here. I mentioned in one of the Bishop threads (maybe this one?) that I can’t fully enjoy spending my 400 Pulls on Professor/Ice/Storm today knowing that playing them together means not having Bishop on defense and handicapping myself. At least Ice has some Bishop synergy with the blue outlet. And Bishop contributes to Professor’s black ability. But still, it really dampens excitement having to build around a broken 4 with around 20 5* champs.tiomono said:
I have started only playing versus events with one 5* and a 4* plus the required character. So when I want to stop I leave 5* daredevil and bishop out. I get about a 3rd of the retals as when I leave out gritty.DyingLegend said:Maybe we should all use Bishop 100% of the time, thus the over usage will call for a nerf rather then how broken the character is?
I think it's tough for the Devs to do character reworks as then it undermines the work that someone has already put into a character building him up etc. If they over nerf him then everyone will be up in arms that he is now ruined and if they dont nerf him everyone will still be up in arms about how he is ruining the game.
Eventually they will have to choose a path, releasing a counter character in this situation doesn't work due to the problems with dilution.
Bishop is a problem to go up against on offense.
What's the difference in floating at 450 or 600?
Either you go for wins, in which case you should welcome each and any retal.
Or you're going for 1200, in which case you just do two extra 75 pointers to make up the difference in float points.
Bishop is a problem, yes, but there's no reason to run him on defense yourself.1 -
This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.0 -
The fact that you consider any non-Bishop team a cupcake means you acknowledge that hes a problem.A_Wise_Man said:
As far as cupcake teams, I disagree with dkffiv that they're the point of coordinating. They're a byproduct of coordination in specific shards. 2 and 5 coordinate but they don't cupcake.3 -
32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.1 -
If you don't use him that's one less person using him. If half the people complaining about him didn't use him that's a much smaller wall to pass. Idk, maybe it's just me. The way I see it you don't get to cause the problem and also complain about the problem you're helping to cause. *That* makes zero sense. I don't run him partly because he's garbage to run on offense, but partly because I'm not interested in being part of the problem.Daredevil217 said:
This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.2 -
tiomono said:32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.Yes, Bishop is a problem.But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.4 -
That's a fair observation. Bishop is "working" for my playstyle.Bowgentle said:tiomono said:32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.Yes, Bishop is a problem.But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.
@A_Wise_Man
The players did not create the problem. The players are using something in game that was given to them by the devs. I felt similar to you on the topic of tapping. Several players were vocal about it. They encouraged all players to jump on the tap train. I pushed back out of frustration using the same argument you are right now. "Do not be the thing you hate". Its not clear whether or not the tapping discussions got tapping wiped out. But tapping did get wiped out. It is not wrong to use something in a game that is designed and given to you by the game designers. If it's a problem the responsibility lies on the devs to fix it.
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The tapping thing....is an excellent analogy to Bishop.
Tapping was only impacting a few players at the top of the game, really. It was growing, as far as I can tell, as a practice but I believe there was never going to be a huge number of players doing it. For the obvious reason that time limitations would preclude a lot of people from starting it, and the relatively low ROI meant many players those with the time to engage in it probably considered it a waste of time.
BUT, the developers fixed it because (maybe):
1. It did impact the top players
2. It somewhat negated the benefit of roster development, as players with relatively low level rosters could tap away with success and beat people who had spent money (and/or much more time) on the game.
3. Ultimately leaving tapping in place would have driven some top players to give up on the game or otherwise reduce engagement.
In many ways Bishop is the same.
1. He is a problem primarily for players who have spent a lot of time/and or money on the game to build a champed 5* roster.
2. A low level Bishop is fine and functions just as well (maybe better) as a 370 Bishop, as the threshold is lower and so he triggers more. So just about any player who managed to champ him is in good shape.
3. His presence in the PVPs where he is heavily utilized means people are playing those events less and/or not bothering, and also not using HP on shields since more players go for wins when he's on lots of the high point floating teams.
IMO a random Discord comment is not official developer policy, and it is not supposed to be, and an official statement here on the forum seems warranted given the amount of discussion that is happening.9 -
If the refs swallow their whistle and don’t call a foul a foul, you can absolutely gripe and say you want better officiating. But when the league refuses to do anything about it, then I see nothing wrong with playing overly aggressive too. “Hey, I hate this, but if you’re not going to call this a foul, we’ll take advantage as well”. This is still competition and it’d be dumb to give my opponents an advantage.A_Wise_Man said:
If you don't use him that's one less person using him. If half the people complaining about him didn't use him that's a much smaller wall to pass. Idk, maybe it's just me. The way I see it you don't get to cause the problem and also complain about the problem you're helping to cause. *That* makes zero sense. I don't run him partly because he's garbage to run on offense, but partly because I'm not interested in being part of the problem.Daredevil217 said:
This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him.A_Wise_Man said:I'm with bow on this one. At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense. If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out. I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.
Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops. I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping? That's one I really dont understand at all.
At a certain point all I hit are the few Gritty/Thorkoye teams I can find. Why would I make myself one of those targets running them? Because I guarantee there are others also willing to hit any team without Bishop once high enough as well. It’s not wrong to utilize a broken mechanic while simultaneously speaking out about its brokenness. Tapping being an awesome example.
Calling the players the problem is shifting blame from the developers, when really it’s on them to fix him. Not on us not to play him.
In fact, the bigger the Bishop wall, the more likely the developers are to notice it.
Even if they don't ever touch him, I’d at least like some insight into why they don’t think he’s a problem.2 -
I also wanted to comment on this. I don't think it’s fair to dismiss his experience. Because it sounds like even at “garbage points” where it’s not worth it to get hit, he was getting hit before Bishop. So apparently he WAS worth it to hit running other teams.Bowgentle said:tiomono said:32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.
My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.
Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.
5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.Yes, Bishop is a problem.But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.
Same with me in LRs. I never played competitively. Just would grind seeds for iso. But since doing so with Bishop I’m actually getting good placement rewards. I don’t climb super high, but all of a sudden am no longer worth hitting.
Aside from 550s, Bishop is the only character I auto skip regardless of points. I can’t risk losing on a hop and backsliding even further. Even though he could probably be beaten with luck. It’s not worth the risk.
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"garbage float points" is definitely subjective. I would love to be able to float at at 600 like I used to in 4* MMR. Now with 2 5* champs I float at 398, which is not awesome for getting to 900 without shielding, which is generally my goal.1
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Try it out with a champ Bishop as your third. You can wear a lab coat. Let us know the results.ThaRoadWarrior said:"garbage float points" is definitely subjective. I would love to be able to float at at 600 like I used to in 4* MMR. Now with 2 5* champs I float at 398, which is not awesome for getting to 900 without shielding, which is generally my goal.0 -
Don’t have one yet, I’ve been chasing Chavez for 7 months to finish JJ, just need 14 more before I switch my BH off. I’ll check back in2
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Every time I read that, I shake my head.ThaRoadWarrior said:Don’t have one yet, I’ve been chasing Chavez for 7 months to finish JJ, just need 14 more before I switch my BH off. I’ll check back in
JJ isn't even that great you really should have been chasing Thor via Valkyrie.2 -
I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range.
If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...
I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.0 -
It isn't just the AP gain (I have a 5/2/1 Thor for reference), it is the fact that every tile destroyed ALSO causes damage and can lead to cascades. Thor's passive quite often finishes off an enemy for me without my having to do anything.ThaRoadWarrior said:I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range.
If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...
I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.
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NERF THOR!!! One character shouldn't be able to end the match with 1 cascade.DAZ0273 said:
It isn't just the AP gain (I have a 5/2/1 Thor for reference), it is the fact that every tile destroyed ALSO causes damage and can lead to cascades. Thor's passive quite often finishes off an enemy for me without my having to do anything.ThaRoadWarrior said:I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range.
If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...
I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.
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You can nerf whoever you like if I don't have them lol. That's somebody else's problem.
Thor is a dangerous character, but I doubt he'd be nearly as ubiquitous without the AP gain. If, like Banner, he specifically couldn't gain any AP from that tile destruction, his utility would be pretty limited.0
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