Nerf Bishop

Daredevil217

A_Wise_Man said:

Daredevil217 said:

A_Wise_Man said:

I'm with bow on this one.  At least half of the people complaining about the wall of bishops....are leaving bishop out on defense.  If you dislike facing him so much, stop leaving him out.  I take a ton of hits in pvp but I do pretty well at the end of the day, and I never ever ever use bishop.

    Oddly enough, even people from the shield coordination rooms use him for hops.  I assume to save their own points, but who are you really coordinating with and helping?  That's one I really dont understand at all.  

This makes zero sense. Whether I use him or not, I’m still going to run into the Bishwall. The only way not to face him is to keep mashing that skip button and hit every Thorkoye and Gritty in sight. But even those will dry up eventually. We use him BECAUSE no one likes facing him. 

If you don't use him that's one less person using him.   If half the people complaining about him didn't use him that's a much smaller wall to pass.  Idk, maybe it's just me.  The way I see it you don't get to cause the problem and also complain about the problem you're helping to cause.  *That* makes zero sense.  I don't run him partly because he's garbage to run on offense, but partly because I'm not interested in being part of the problem.  

If the refs swallow their whistle and don’t call a foul a foul, you can absolutely gripe and say you want better officiating. But when the league refuses to do anything about it, then I see nothing wrong with playing overly aggressive too. “Hey, I hate this, but if you’re not going to call this a foul, we’ll take advantage as well”. This is still competition and it’d be dumb to give my opponents an advantage.

At a certain point all I hit are the few Gritty/Thorkoye teams I can find. Why would I make myself one of those targets running them? Because I guarantee there are others also willing to hit any team without Bishop once high enough as well. It’s not wrong to utilize a broken mechanic while simultaneously speaking out about its brokenness. Tapping being an awesome example.

Calling the players the problem is shifting blame from the developers, when really it’s on them to fix him. Not on us not to play him. 

In fact, the bigger the Bishop wall, the more likely the developers are to notice it. 

Even if they don't ever touch him, I’d at least like some insight into why they don’t think he’s a problem. 

Daredevil217

Bowgentle said:

tiomono said:

32 hours unshielded in dooms event. 6 hits, 3 were wins 3 were losses.

My boosted doom is level 335. My unboosted bishop is 277. My champ daredevil 454. Daredevil is not a deterrent to any dual 5* teams, neither is my doom.

Bishop is a free shield at my level. That's not my opinion or feelings on it. That is proof from how other players treat you when you leave bishop on defense at my level. I have 9 5* champs, and none of them are as big of a deterrent to my opponents as bishop even unboosted.

5* players need an answer to bishop. Either a counter or a nerf. He is obnoxious.

Yes, Bishop is a problem.

But YOU are being left alone because you float with him at garbage points, where there are a ton of other teams to hit.

Try floating with that team at 900+, see how fast you're down to 550.

I also wanted to comment on this. I don't think it’s fair to dismiss his experience. Because it sounds like even at “garbage points” where it’s not worth it to get hit, he was getting hit before Bishop. So apparently he WAS worth it to hit running other teams.

Same with me in LRs. I never played competitively. Just would grind seeds for iso. But since doing so with Bishop I’m actually getting good placement rewards. I don’t climb super high, but all of a sudden am no longer worth hitting.

Aside from 550s, Bishop is the only character I auto skip regardless of points. I can’t risk losing on a hop and backsliding even further.  Even though he could probably be beaten with luck. It’s not worth the risk. 

ThaRoadWarrior

"garbage float points" is definitely subjective. I would love to be able to float at at 600 like I used to in 4* MMR. Now with 2 5* champs I float at 398, which is not awesome for getting to 900 without shielding, which is generally my goal.

Neuromancer

ThaRoadWarrior said:

"garbage float points" is definitely subjective. I would love to be able to float at at 600 like I used to in 4* MMR. Now with 2 5* champs I float at 398, which is not awesome for getting to 900 without shielding, which is generally my goal.

Try it out with a champ Bishop as your third. You can wear a lab coat. Let us know the results.

ThaRoadWarrior

Don’t have one yet, I’ve been chasing Chavez for 7 months to finish JJ, just need 14 more before I switch my BH off. I’ll check back in

Bowgentle

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Don’t have one yet, I’ve been chasing Chavez for 7 months to finish JJ, just need 14 more before I switch my BH off. I’ll check back in

Every time I read that, I shake my head.
JJ isn't even that great you really should have been chasing Thor via Valkyrie.

ThaRoadWarrior

I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range. 

If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...

I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.

DAZ0273

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range. 

If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...

I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.

It isn't just the AP gain (I have a 5/2/1 Thor for reference), it is the fact that every tile destroyed ALSO causes damage and can lead to cascades. Thor's passive quite often finishes off an enemy for me without my having to do anything.

grunth13

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range. 

If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...

I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.

It isn't just the AP gain (I have a 5/2/1 Thor for reference), it is the fact that every tile destroyed ALSO causes damage and can lead to cascades. Thor's passive quite often finishes off an enemy for me without my having to do anything.

NERF THOR!!!  One character shouldn't be able to end the match with 1 cascade.

ThaRoadWarrior

You can nerf whoever you like if I don't have them lol. That's somebody else's problem.

Thor is a dangerous character, but I doubt he'd be nearly as ubiquitous without the AP gain. If, like Banner, he specifically couldn't gain any AP from that tile destruction, his utility would be pretty limited.

DAZ0273

grunth13 said:

DAZ0273 said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I have a 2/0/2 thor, he wasn't even close to feedable. I probably should have gone all-in on Shuri if anything, since Okoye was at least in feeder range. 

If you take Thor off the table, there are a lot of other fun teams to play with I find. Unfortunately Thor is on everyone else's table, so not quite as fun as it would otherwise be...

I'm hopeful Iceman and his green will fill that role of cheap AoE buddy, but the true utility of Thor is that AP gain, so maybe he won't in the end.

It isn't just the AP gain (I have a 5/2/1 Thor for reference), it is the fact that every tile destroyed ALSO causes damage and can lead to cascades. Thor's passive quite often finishes off an enemy for me without my having to do anything.

NERF THOR!!!  One character shouldn't be able to end the match with 1 cascade.

I said "finishes off"!! Before then 'twas a struggle most mighty!

Daredevil217

I hate him I hate him I hate him I hate him. 

Played a god boosted Professor X and newly champed Storm against Jessica and unboosted Bishop. All I needed was a match 4 and Professor would murder Bishop. No luck. I was stun locked on turn 3 and my team lost to traps and nukes from Jess. A 540 character. Dropped by an unboosted 4. 

LR I saw I had like 4 minutes left. Queued a Bish/Jess team. Thought “I’ll try using Bishop as a counter to Bishop” since that’s something people suggested in a different thread. First match was Bish yellow that didn’t trigger their Bish. Good good. Their Jess hit a big match that injured my Bish. Both overclocked eachother, but mine died. Opposing Bish was left standing and I was out of T100 thanks to the loss. Unbelievable. 

He sucks to play against so much.

bluewolf

No, he's fine. It's the new meta, is all.  No problems here.....

shinnaruto

That sounds like some horrible matches. i know i was one who threw out there to use Bishop v. Bishop and hope that mine is left standing (it is a coin flip though). However, I think it is either skip or put out and all 4* team.

tiomono

Yeah bishop vs bishop is not the answer. It guarantees the enemy has at least 10 blue before they even move a tile.

You match 3 their bishop jumps to the front gaining 5 blue and throwing out damage. That brings your bishop to the front who gains 5 blue and does damage. Which procs their bishop again and it continues until yours is dead and theirs has enough blue to stun lock your team.

ThaRoadWarrior

Daredevil217 said:

I hate him I hate him I hate him I hate him. 

[...]

He sucks to play against so much.

OVERCLOCKED!

bluewolf

I'm really hoping the 5* counter for 4* Bishop is...... 5* Bishop!  (this idea comes from another player on Discord)

Passive:  If anyone on your team is stunned, you win automatically. 

I don't care what his other abilities are.

It would be awesome!

4* Bishop would be my new best friend!  I could run all those 5's that languish unused!  75 wins?  Pffft.  No problem!

PLEASE DEVS!  Make this happen!

shinnaruto

I like the idea of a 5* Bishop as a counter to 4* Bishop.
What powers would this version have?

ThaRoadWarrior

I hope it’s Sleepwalker, and he can’t do anything but accrue AP like a goon while awake, and then when he is stunned is when he comes alive.

kind of like how Original flavor Doc Ock could auto move when stunned if he had tentacles in play.

A_Wise_Man

blankcanvas said:

My god that sounds ridiculous. Maybe he actually does need tweaking......

It's much worse with other characters as well.  It's really awful....err...I mean..."fun, but challenging".