Supports are coming to PVP

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@LavaManLee said:
Curious which defensive teams with which support will end up being the new meta. As we all know, the players are way better than the AI to have the right AP and fire the powers in the right order. So even though our team may be able to win at Turn 0, there will have to be a "dummy proof" defensive team with supports that will work out no matter how poorly the AI makes decisions.

This is the only thing that matters.

On offense whether you win on turn 0 or turn 3 doesn't matter because the player taking the hit just sees a loss for X number of points. They don't care how it happened (turn 0 or turn 3) only that it happened.

The only thing players really are going to care about is enemy team supports. There is no way an enemy team with May/Emma can have 30 AP on turn 0 because there isn't boosts for the AI so at most they'll get a few AP in some colors which means eating an AOE but not one that can wipe you on the AI's first turn.

As I said many posts above. The biggest gripe is going to come from increased health pack usage, not actual losses. I bet the player loss rate barely increases but damage to characters will skyrocket due to extra firing of powers by the AI. What they should have done for this 1st season is auto-healed your team (or double the free health packs) if you won while the Devs and players evaluate how supports are working.

KGB

On offense, winning turn 0 absolutely matters, probably more than defense.

Yes, the player seeing my hit doesn't know how long exactly it took me, but when players shield hop, they're trying to spend a minimum amount of time unshielded. If I have a turn0 team and you don't, I can hit you probably 4-5 times on your hop, before you can do one fight.

This would actually be pretty great for me and players like me, but most of the players I'd like to fight will probably have turn0 teams, meaning they'll be able to do 4-5 fights on a hop before I can hit them once -- unless I also use a super fast turn0 team with tuned supports.

See what happens here? We're forced to use only the very fastest teams, otherwise we just lose. And the standard for "fast" just got multiplied by like 4-5x. Tons of teams and characters immediately stop being usable because they're too slow, even if they're fast in the current metagame.

The issue you describe matters to probably less than 1% of the player base. Plus, at that level isn't everything already rigged anyway (ie shield check rooms, baking, not hitting certain other alliances) with regards to who gets to win events/seasons? For everyone else it doesn't. PvP also seems fine with everyone boosting tons of AP which also speeds up matches and does everything else in your argument. If AP boosts are fine why isn't a bit more AP boosts from supports fine?

The the question is do you throw out supports in PvP for <1% of the player base or do they have to adapt to the new normal that everyone else operates under just fine.

KGB

AP boosts are already limited to +4, it used to be higher but was changed because the 1%ers abused it.

All the PvP matchmaking stuff that everybody hates/doesn't understand? Every single one of those weird fixes was put in place because the 1% abused some aspect of matchmaking in the past.

Relatively small groups of players can have very large impacts on the game as a whole. Before the devs killed cupcakes, almost every player could trivially hit max prog in PvP -- the top scorers were consistently putting up like 5k or something, and max prog was like top 250.

Look at the difference in point values between the slices! That's all down to how a few groups of 1%ers play. Those players matter in PvP.

@Tony_Foot said:

@Phumade said:

>

LOL
Let me assure you its not all rainbows and unicorns at that end of the spectrum. All that aside, the play loop established at that tier ALWAYS trickles down to the masses. Newer rosters might not see the same pressure, but the tactics will be adapted to what resources they do have.,,

The trickle down is always a poor excuse for the cheating. If the game was actually played like a proper PvP then the scores wouldn’t be as high and the reward tiers would have been changed to reflect that.

If this means collaborating cheaters can be hit faster I’m all for it, at my level I’m only ever going to be hit while I’m worth points.

It won't mean that. The snipers will get faster but the hoppers will also get faster. All it'll do is push out any players who don't have (or don't want to use) the fastest possible stuff.

@KGB said:

@slidecage said:
How does may Emma get 30 ap in turn 0

Boosts. +2 All = 12. +2 in 2 other colors gives 8 more for a total of +20.

Get +10 more from 3 Supports that give out starting AP.

KGB

Isn't boost all hard to come by
What 3 supports give ap. Thought it was just a chance to get more ap

I know my Emma does need to find the other

@entrailbucket said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

Look at the difference in point values between the slices! That's all down to how a few groups of 1%ers play. Those players matter in PvP.

We should just be grateful that nothing of National importance is related to this game. I hesitate to think about WarThunder Line rooms.

@entrailbucket said:

@Tony_Foot said:

@Phumade said:

>

LOL
Let me assure you its not all rainbows and unicorns at that end of the spectrum. All that aside, the play loop established at that tier ALWAYS trickles down to the masses. Newer rosters might not see the same pressure, but the tactics will be adapted to what resources they do have.,,

The trickle down is always a poor excuse for the cheating. If the game was actually played like a proper PvP then the scores wouldn’t be as high and the reward tiers would have been changed to reflect that.

If this means collaborating cheaters can be hit faster I’m all for it, at my level I’m only ever going to be hit while I’m worth points.

It won't mean that. The snipers will get faster but the hoppers will also get faster. All it'll do is push out any players who don't have (or don't want to use) the fastest possible stuff.

That's pretty much what I expect to see. looking forward to the temporary chaos.

Had a match against the omega red heroic boss end without making a move. My storm breaker support on mthor created a few red tiles on the first turn that happened to create a match 5 and then cascade into more match 5's that killed OR before any move was made.

I bet people are gonna love it against defensive teams after they've made one single move and some shenanigans like that take some one out or end the match immediately.

Did anyone really want this? This is supposed to be a simple game. Making it MORE complicated is a fail. Ascensions almost made me quit. Supports in pvp probably will.