Supports are coming to PVP

Seph1roth5

All live/mobile games add stuff over time. If they hadn't done ascension/shards/support shards/3 and 5 releases the game would just be new 5s every month for years with nothing changing.

CoxLargo

This is stup1d. The older players got richers...

turbomoose

It is a trial run and they will tweak it after the experiment stage

Zalasta

This is a great idea! I look forward to boosted supports the following season. 😎

Glockoma

Chaos 🔥🌎

Pylgrim

@Tanglefoot said:
Did anyone really want this? This is supposed to be a simple game. Making it MORE complicated is a fail. Ascensions almost made me quit. Supports in pvp probably will.

Sorry, since when has this been supposed to be a simple game?

CHRISJN

i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Borstock

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

BriMan2222

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

I don't know that the Aunt May team is even the biggest thing to worry about here -- I saw a couple other teams posted that seem just as unpleasant and reliable with the right supports. If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

ArchusMonk

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The AI can’t boost AP, so you’ll be fine. If the defensive team is running Krakoa on Emma and 2x 80% 6 AP boosts, then worst case scenario, defensive team will have 4 red AP and 12 other AP. You need 6 red AP for May, so they’d have to match red on turn 1, then cast the red turn 2. That would hurt, but unless they cascade, they’ll probably only have 19-20 AP, not the max 30. No one should lose turn 1 to May on defense.

KGB

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

On the plus side, the days of endless MThor queues are probably over because MThor won't be part of any of those type of teams

Also I continue to hope this change spurs them do away with health packs in PvP unless you lose (lose/retreat all 3 characters downed, if you win all 3 characters healed to full health) so that scarecrow teams who can just damage but not win are pointless.

KGB

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

On the plus side, the days of endless MThor queues are probably over because MThor won't be part of any of those type of teams

Also I continue to hope this change spurs them do away with health packs in PvP unless you lose (lose/retreat all 3 characters downed, if you win all 3 characters healed to full health) so that scarecrow teams who can just damage but not win are pointless.

KGB

I think Retreat is meant as a strategic option to preserve packs when you're stuck in a match that you're clearly not going to win. I don't think downing your entire team as a response would be very popular.

It'd also break some other stuff that's really important for certain aspects of high end PvP. Fully downing your entire team on a retreat would make point dumping much harder. Honestly, it'd be popular with the Line coordination crowd that the devs seem to be terrified of, because it'd let them score a ton more, but it'd cause some inflation in the overall point economy.

BriMan2222

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

I don't know that the Aunt May team is even the biggest thing to worry about here -- I saw a couple other teams posted that seem just as unpleasant and reliable with the right supports. If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

Whenever I face mthor and shang (which is alot) 99% of the time the ai will never fire mthors red. They always use it on Shangs red, the more expensive power. Only if I either ko shang already or if they have enough ap to fire both red do i ever get hit by mthors red. Unless I've just been extremely lucky it has to be favoring the more expensive red power.

DyingLegend

Good luck everybody!!!! This should be hilarious

LavaManLee

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

I don't know that the Aunt May team is even the biggest thing to worry about here -- I saw a couple other teams posted that seem just as unpleasant and reliable with the right supports. If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

Whenever I face mthor and shang (which is alot) 99% of the time the ai will never fire mthors red. They always use it on Shangs red, the more expensive power. Only if I either ko shang already or if they have enough ap to fire both red do i ever get hit by mthors red. Unless I've just been extremely lucky it has to be favoring the more expensive red power.

I have noticed this as well. AI definitely prioritizes SC red over MT red.

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@Borstock said:

@CHRISJN said:
i think if emma/aunt may are both not boosted, turn 0 cannot be done, against boosted characters with 200k + health..

For those who likes and do grills, maybe..

Sure, but it makes a nice effective scarecrow if you can essentially guarantee your defensive team is gonna hit for all that team DMG on turn 0. If you don't bring someone to negate that DMG, you're basically guaranteeing yourself three health packs used after every single match, even if you win.

Let's also not forget how simple it is for RiRi to stunlock a team and all the supports that grant green. You might only get 1 turn before you become a spectator.

I don't understand why they are doing this now. I assumed it took so long because they needed to tweak stuff for implementation into a game mode they weren't designed for. Instead, it's just go. I hate this.

The ai prefers to fire more expensive powers. Its gonna waste all that red ap on Emma's red.

I think he rolls to see which power he'll cast, which means you'll randomly either eat some giant AoE or Emma's lousy red.

I don't know that the Aunt May team is even the biggest thing to worry about here -- I saw a couple other teams posted that seem just as unpleasant and reliable with the right supports. If more of these teams don't exist now (and I still think folks have more turn0 teams that are being kept quiet), players will absolutely discover the most obnoxious, reliable defensive teams fairly quickly.

Whenever I face mthor and shang (which is alot) 99% of the time the ai will never fire mthors red. They always use it on Shangs red, the more expensive power. Only if I either ko shang already or if they have enough ap to fire both red do i ever get hit by mthors red. Unless I've just been extremely lucky it has to be favoring the more expensive red power.

I think if he has enough to cast the more expensive power, the roll is weighted in favor of the more expensive one, but I'm pretty sure he does still roll. If he only has enough to cast the cheaper power, he rolls every turn to decide whether to save up for the more expensive one or not.

I imagine you'd set up supports such that you end up with a max of 6 or 7 red for the Aunt May team, and then it'd be RNG whether he fires Aunt May or saves for Emma.

This is the kind of silly stuff that's suddenly going to matter a whole lot when you're building defensive teams, and I guess the strategy is cool at first. But it's going to be solved and disseminated really fast and then we're all going to be stuck facing the same teams with the same supports.

bluewolf

I think some of the best supports for defense will be the ones that heal/reduce dmg by a %. Like The Dead Pool or Eros’ Arrows.

Things that unavoidably lengthen matches and allow the AI more chances to stumble into a win.

Thor will continue to be important since she nukes all specials.

Wolvie171

@entrailbucket said:

This is the kind of silly stuff that's suddenly going to matter a whole lot when you're building defensive teams, and I guess the strategy is cool at first. But it's going to be solved and disseminated really fast and then we're all going to be stuck facing the same teams with the same supports.

This. When speed is the most important factor, diversity goes out the window and players will resolve to use the same teams. PVP will become a mirror of PVE.

bluewolf

Was thinking about the fact that currently we have a 3 in the middle most pvps. For 5* players they die very quickly….something to consider with supports etc. Running a loaner means one less support means maybe a more significant difference on defense vs now where it’s often basically negligible.

Aka more health pack need/use may be coming. Depends on your competitiveness etc.