Class of 2016/2017

entrailbucket

Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?

KGB

I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?

Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match.

And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles

New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks.

I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted.

Bowgentle

@Vhailorx said:

@entrailbucket said:
Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?

Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match.

And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles

New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks.

I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted.

You must be playing a different kind of PVP than the rest of us if you can run Shang or Apoc against the sea of Hulkasm.
Gambit laughs at those.

entrailbucket

Plus, Gambit (or anybody else modern or redone) with the boost has crazy match damage and health, which matters quite a bit. Apocalypse or Shang-Chi will die to one Gambit red if they're not boosted.

Daredevil217

I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.

DrClever

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper.

Good..?

Bowgentle

@Daredevil217 said:
I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.

No, we're talking boosted Gambit vs unboosted Shang/Apoc.

fractalvisions

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.

Vhailorx

@Daredevil217 said:
I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.

It's been a little while but I think the inciting incident was someone (maybe entrail?) saying something like "I know someone doesn't play the game alot when they say 'Gambit is terrible after his rework."

And my thought was reworked gambit still seems very meh to me.

And then the whole discussion came up again here in the 2017 thread.

Vhailorx

@Bowgentle said:

@Vhailorx said:

@entrailbucket said:
Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?

Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match.

And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles

New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks.

I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted.

You must be playing a different kind of PVP than the rest of us if you can run Shang or Apoc against the sea of Hulkasm.
Gambit laughs at those.

Very likely true. I have not played a full season of pvp competitively in years, and rarely play individual events for placement. So I am very casual in pvp.

skittledaddy

@fractalvisions said:

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.

Same. Exactly.
These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones.

How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine.

entrailbucket

@Vhailorx said:

@Daredevil217 said:
I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.

It's been a little while but I think the inciting incident was someone (maybe entrail?) saying something like "I know someone doesn't play the game alot when they say 'Gambit is terrible after his rework."

And my thought was reworked gambit still seems very meh to me.

And then the whole discussion came up again here in the 2017 thread.

I think I said that anybody who thought that hadn't used him very much since the buff. I remember being disappointed with it too, when I read what they'd done. I forgot about him entirely until he had a boost week, and then I ran him for a whole event and found him pretty impressive.

KGB

@skittledaddy said:

@fractalvisions said:

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.

Same. Exactly.
These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones.

How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine and there was a variety of teams to use and face.

My MMR is around 360-370 now as I presume yours is too.

The prior 'Class of's were all fine. I got 25 wins in all of them including the last one with Surfer/Phoenix/OML and as you noted, all the opponent teams were roughly the same as mine.

But in 2017 I noticed a vast difference. I barely got to 12 wins and my point total ended up at 575 and at that time I was ranked T20 in my bracket (S5). I know there is no placement but the fact that 575 was T20 with only a few hours left says hardly anyone was playing or reaching any kind of score. I think the lack of players playing the 2017 event in S5 meant that MMR was forced to match me up against endless players with baby champed 5s which were boosted to 550.

KGB

BriMan2222

@KGB said:

@skittledaddy said:

@fractalvisions said:

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.

Same. Exactly.
These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones.

How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine and there was a variety of teams to use and face.

My MMR is around 360-370 now as I presume yours is too.

The prior 'Class of's were all fine. I got 25 wins in all of them including the last one with Surfer/Phoenix/OML and as you noted, all the opponent teams were roughly the same as mine.

But in 2017 I noticed a vast difference. I barely got to 12 wins and my point total ended up at 575 and at that time I was ranked T20 in my bracket (S5). I know there is no placement but the fact that 575 was T20 with only a few hours left says hardly anyone was playing or reaching any kind of score. I think the lack of players playing the 2017 event in S5 meant that MMR was forced to match me up against endless players with baby champed 5s which were boosted to 550.

KGB

With only a few hours left in the event everyone was probably already done. In all of the events so far (with the exception of whatever year I had to use nick fury,elektra, thor) I have either hit 1200 points or 50 wins in the first couple days. Where my score ended up after that I don't know because I didn't pay attention after that, but I did get a few notifications that my team was hit every day so I'm sure by the last couple of hours I probably was down to like 500 points.

fractalvisions

@KGB said:

@skittledaddy said:

@fractalvisions said:

@KGB said:
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.

19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.

KGB

Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.

Same. Exactly.
These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones.

How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine and there was a variety of teams to use and face.

My MMR is around 360-370 now as I presume yours is too.

The prior 'Class of's were all fine. I got 25 wins in all of them including the last one with Surfer/Phoenix/OML and as you noted, all the opponent teams were roughly the same as mine.

But in 2017 I noticed a vast difference. I barely got to 12 wins and my point total ended up at 575 and at that time I was ranked T20 in my bracket (S5). I know there is no placement but the fact that 575 was T20 with only a few hours left says hardly anyone was playing or reaching any kind of score. I think the lack of players playing the 2017 event in S5 meant that MMR was forced to match me up against endless players with baby champed 5s which were boosted to 550.

KGB

Why would anyone be reaching any kind of score when most people aren't shielding and if there aren't any good defensive teams for that year?

Phumade

@fractalvisions said:

Why would anyone be reaching any kind of score when most people aren't shielding and if there aren't any good defensive teams for that year?

With experience and knowing when to play matches, its relatively straightforward to hit 1200 even in the class of events.

In general, the avg whales can get to 900-1000k before they outscore the avg floater and are starved for decent points. Experienced players can just sit and collect those As and do 1 push of 5-8 "A" teams. I'm not saying 1200 is easy etc... just that anyone who's played competitive pvp has the experience and knowledge to score 1200 even when people aren't "shield hopping"

fractalvisions

@Phumade said:

@fractalvisions said:

Why would anyone be reaching any kind of score when most people aren't shielding and if there aren't any good defensive teams for that year?

With experience and knowing when to play matches, its relatively straightforward to hit 1200 even in the class of events.

In general, the avg whales can get to 900-1000k before they outscore the avg floater and are starved for decent points. Experienced players can just sit and collect those As and do 1 push of 5-8 "A" teams. I'm not saying 1200 is easy etc... just that anyone who's played competitive pvp has the experience and knowledge to score 1200 even when people aren't "shield hopping"

Yes, but if the players that are reaching 1200 are doing so long before the end of the event then I presume they won't remain at 1200 until the last few hours of the event and this could explain KGB's experience.

Phumade

@fractalvisions said:

@Phumade said:

@fractalvisions said:

Why would anyone be reaching any kind of score when most people aren't shielding and if there aren't any good defensive teams for that year?

With experience and knowing when to play matches, its relatively straightforward to hit 1200 even in the class of events.

In general, the avg whales can get to 900-1000k before they outscore the avg floater and are starved for decent points. Experienced players can just sit and collect those As and do 1 push of 5-8 "A" teams. I'm not saying 1200 is easy etc... just that anyone who's played competitive pvp has the experience and knowledge to score 1200 even when people aren't "shield hopping"

Yes, but if the players that are reaching 1200 are doing so long before the end of the event then I presume they won't remain at 1200 until the last few hours of the event and this could explain KGB's experience.

Yes thats definitely true and depends on if they left out a 5/4/4 team at the end as a favor or kept their 3x 600 5*. hahaha IMHO in a 7 day event with no placement. Its probably easier and faster to 50 wins to do 1 drop cake at the end of your play session and reclimb with your A team the next morning day etc.

But yeah, the peeps who fight for T5 in my scl10 are still finishing around 800-1000 unless they hit matches in the last few hours. I can imagine a scenario where someone thinks they could 1 or 2 hop to 1200, or 900 and throws the shield to save having to slog the last 15 matches. or it could be as simple as they don't know how to turn of hit notifications. hahahaha.