@Vhailorx said: @entrailbucket said: Yeah, I saw someone actually say that Gambit was useless and that his buff was bad. I said that I think gambit is still meh after his rework. Purple is pretty bad, and even boosted I still find his red a little underwhelming, given the cost and lack of boardshake and spammability. He is certainly not bad any longer, and when boosted he is a borderline viable main (but still too slow). But I think reports that he is straight up good now are mostly a people overreacting given of how traumatizing his nerf was.
@Vhailorx said:
@entrailbucket said: Yeah, I saw someone actually say that Gambit was useless and that his buff was bad.
I said that I think gambit is still meh after his rework. Purple is pretty bad, and even boosted I still find his red a little underwhelming, given the cost and lack of boardshake and spammability. He is certainly not bad any longer, and when boosted he is a borderline viable main (but still too slow). But I think reports that he is straight up good now are mostly a people overreacting given of how traumatizing his nerf was.
Is yours not championed or something? I'd never use him unboosted, but I'd never use anyone unboosted. With the boost my red hits for like 100k every cast, and purple nearly that, spread over 3 CDs. On powers that are passively fed, plus his tile charging passive, that's good.
Mines still in the 450s, and his boosted red can 1-shot an unboosted Jane.
I never had gambit champed until all after his nerf, so I can't compare him to his pre nerf. I do have him and every other 5 star champed now as well a several meta 550's. Gambit has been my Ace during his boost week over everyone. His purple does a good chunk of damage each hit and his red is a nuke. I always target an enemy gambit first, he can get out of hand quickly.
@entrailbucket said: @Vhailorx said: @entrailbucket said: Yeah, I saw someone actually say that Gambit was useless and that his buff was bad. I said that I think gambit is still meh after his rework. Purple is pretty bad, and even boosted I still find his red a little underwhelming, given the cost and lack of boardshake and spammability. He is certainly not bad any longer, and when boosted he is a borderline viable main (but still too slow). But I think reports that he is straight up good now are mostly a people overreacting given of how traumatizing his nerf was. Is yours not championed or something? I'd never use him unboosted, but I'd never use anyone unboosted. With the boost my red hits for like 100k every cast, and purple nearly that, spread over 3 CDs. On powers that are passively fed, plus his tile charging passive, that's good.
@entrailbucket said:
I have a baby champ roster and my gambit is right in line with everyone else. Boosted his red does ~30k + ~5k per charged tile. For 8 ap. So a max of about 80k and change when the board is full of charged tiles and 45k on subsequent casts.
That's fine. But it's slow to get many charged tiles out, and even 80k damage isnt all that special when fighting 560 opponents. Sure, you can pair him with someone like fosthor to get more charged tiles out faster. And then we are kind of talking about how good she is rather than how good he is.
The purple takes 3 turns to resolve and does a little under 45k if all 3 tiles survive. It can't overwrite specials anymore. I'll cast it when I have the ap, but it's not something I get excited about.
He is perfectly playable when boosted now. He's not bad. But I don't get excited about having him on my team. There are generally better options that can do more damage faster, or play more sustainably to save health.
I guess I am just not much of a fan of using mid 5*s when boosted and tend to be cool on the whole concept.
Purple overwrites SAPs but not CDs or Repeaters
@ThaRoadWarrior said: Purple overwrites SAPs but not CDs or Repeaters
I.e. the part of the ability that made it useful defensively pre-nerf.
Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?
I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.
19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die.
KGB
@entrailbucket said: Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450?
Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match.
And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles
New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks.
I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted.
@Vhailorx said: @entrailbucket said: Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450? Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match. And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks. I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted.
You must be playing a different kind of PVP than the rest of us if you can run Shang or Apoc against the sea of Hulkasm. Gambit laughs at those.
Plus, Gambit (or anybody else modern or redone) with the boost has crazy match damage and health, which matters quite a bit. Apocalypse or Shang-Chi will die to one Gambit red if they're not boosted.
I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.
@KGB said: I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper.
Good..?
@Daredevil217 said: I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not.
No, we're talking boosted Gambit vs unboosted Shang/Apoc.
@KGB said: I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event. 19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die. KGB
@KGB said: I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event.
Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.
It's been a little while but I think the inciting incident was someone (maybe entrail?) saying something like "I know someone doesn't play the game alot when they say 'Gambit is terrible after his rework."
And my thought was reworked gambit still seems very meh to me.
And then the whole discussion came up again here in the 2017 thread.
@Bowgentle said: @Vhailorx said: @entrailbucket said: Who do you have that does 45,000 damage for 8AP unboosted, at 450? Shang Chi, for one. Also apoc. And those characrers bring ancillary benefits (e.g., true healing, board control, damage boosting, or stun immunity) that Gambit can't match. And before you say "but combo" or "but 14 ap to use apoc's yellow first" I will point out that they are no slower than using gambit to flood the board with charged tiles New characters like HEvo or Kang (and maybe Wang? but i haven't champed him yet) can also outperform gambit even when outboosted using their respective tricks. I guess I just can't imagine going out of my way to praise reworked gambit in the current meta. He's not close to cutting edge. He's just in the big blob of middle characters who can more or less hold their own when boosted. You must be playing a different kind of PVP than the rest of us if you can run Shang or Apoc against the sea of Hulkasm. Gambit laughs at those.
@Bowgentle said:
Very likely true. I have not played a full season of pvp competitively in years, and rarely play individual events for placement. So I am very casual in pvp.
@fractalvisions said: @KGB said: I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event. 19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die. KGB Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it.
@fractalvisions said:
Same. Exactly. These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones.
How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine.
@Vhailorx said: @Daredevil217 said: I don’t understand. Are people who like Gambit’s rebalance saying that he’s Shang/Kang/Apoc level? I have him ranked 28 after his rebalance. He probably would have been bottom 5-10 if not for the buff. That’s a significant leap. But I haven’t seen anyone say he’s as good as the top 10 characters. If he’s boosted and they’re not then of course Gambit is better. But unboosted, of course not. It's been a little while but I think the inciting incident was someone (maybe entrail?) saying something like "I know someone doesn't play the game alot when they say 'Gambit is terrible after his rework." And my thought was reworked gambit still seems very meh to me. And then the whole discussion came up again here in the 2017 thread.
I think I said that anybody who thought that hadn't used him very much since the buff. I remember being disappointed with it too, when I read what they'd done. I forgot about him entirely until he had a boost week, and then I ran him for a whole event and found him pretty impressive.
@skittledaddy said: @fractalvisions said: @KGB said: I found 2017 to be an incredibly awful slog as a soft capper. Apparently there is next to no one with these 5* characters that aren't in a champed state or if there are, they aren't bothering to play this PvP event. 19 out of every 20 battles matched me against at least 1 550 (a boosted 450) and often a pair of characters over 500 when my highest are coming in at 430 (boosted). I eked out 12 wins over many days using America + 2 5*s and +1 all AP boost and living on her crits. Every battle saw at least 1 of my 5's die. KGB Interesting. As someone with a 330 MMR, I found it to be a lot of fun. There was basically no meta. I found myself facing a variety of different teams using a mix of 4* and 5* characters and could similarly use a variety of different teams. These Class of... PvPs are PvP just the way I like it. Same. Exactly. These "Class of"s have been great for messing around with my roster. It's been nothing but high-end 4s and undercovered 5s, which is the way it should be. I love that it has forced me to try more of my old (boosted, of course) 4s. Since there is nothing on the line but progression, I have been challenging myself to use as few 5*s as possible, and when I do I only use the bottom-tier ones. How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine and there was a variety of teams to use and face.
@skittledaddy said:
How high are you climbing, @KGB ? I have not been pushing past ~16 wins, so that could account for the difference between your experience and mine and there was a variety of teams to use and face.
My MMR is around 360-370 now as I presume yours is too.
The prior 'Class of's were all fine. I got 25 wins in all of them including the last one with Surfer/Phoenix/OML and as you noted, all the opponent teams were roughly the same as mine.
But in 2017 I noticed a vast difference. I barely got to 12 wins and my point total ended up at 575 and at that time I was ranked T20 in my bracket (S5). I know there is no placement but the fact that 575 was T20 with only a few hours left says hardly anyone was playing or reaching any kind of score. I think the lack of players playing the 2017 event in S5 meant that MMR was forced to match me up against endless players with baby champed 5s which were boosted to 550.