***** Wong (Sorcerer Supreme) *****

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  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Right now he is totally nerfed by chasm.
    But if there is a future without omnichasm, wong could be revisited.
    Also kang can grant wong the chance to fire his red and kill chasm along with several voids.
    Also supernatural bonus affiliation has more probabilities to shine on in the future when a supernatural character not sharing same colors appears.
    And there are still characters waiting like clea strange, blackheart, mephisto, etc...

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    In a world where both Chasm and Kang exist, all the other characters are irrelevant -- unless they support either of these guys there's no reason for them to exist at all.

    So the question is, does Wong work well or poorly with either Chasm or Kang? He does make a CD tile, but he also sends himself Away, which is quite risky in the Kang-verse.

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    @Daredevil217 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's based on induction of how characters with defensive/support ends up being useful against meta of the future.

    Okay, so you can’t even dream up a character that Wong would be a counter for? If your stance is defensive/support characters are good against meta, then we have plenty of defensive/support characters already in the game. Along with the ones you mentioned there is Odin, Switch, Abby, Heimdall, Iceman, Yelena, Sersi, etc. and that is just off the top of my head. Your stance is like saying “don’t regret missing out on Havok, because big damage characters are really great”. While true, we have plenty of big damage characters in the game. So you ask yourself is this character bringing something to the table that is unique enough that you would pick them over the other characters in their “class“. You have not answered that question, and just stated, this class is good. If I have every other character in said class, is this one really needed? I champ everyone anyway (Wong is a cover away), so it is moot for me. But a fair question for those who don’t champ everyone to ask is this person worth it? And, what makes them unique enough to chase that they are the best option in a situation (I do believe he is good enough to be the best option in a given boost week, but I don’t see it outside of that). I want to be wrong, which is why I’m asking the question.

    If there is one thing a player on the forum shouldn't do, is argue with the player that created the 5* rankings page lol. If I'm gonna trust someone's opinion, it's gonna be Daredevil217, and I completely agree with his assessment of Wong

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Punisher5784 said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's based on induction of how characters with defensive/support ends up being useful against meta of the future.

    Okay, so you can’t even dream up a character that Wong would be a counter for? If your stance is defensive/support characters are good against meta, then we have plenty of defensive/support characters already in the game. Along with the ones you mentioned there is Odin, Switch, Abby, Heimdall, Iceman, Yelena, Sersi, etc. and that is just off the top of my head. Your stance is like saying “don’t regret missing out on Havok, because big damage characters are really great”. While true, we have plenty of big damage characters in the game. So you ask yourself is this character bringing something to the table that is unique enough that you would pick them over the other characters in their “class“. You have not answered that question, and just stated, this class is good. If I have every other character in said class, is this one really needed? I champ everyone anyway (Wong is a cover away), so it is moot for me. But a fair question for those who don’t champ everyone to ask is this person worth it? And, what makes them unique enough to chase that they are the best option in a situation (I do believe he is good enough to be the best option in a given boost week, but I don’t see it outside of that). I want to be wrong, which is why I’m asking the question.

    If there is one thing a player on the forum shouldn't do, is argue with the player that created the 5* rankings page lol. If I'm gonna trust someone's opinion, it's gonna be Daredevil217, and I completely agree with his assessment of Wong

    I take your point, but there's no need to declare DD the pope of mpq just yet

    I love the 5* rankings page, use it frequently, and have appreciated the work that DD has put into it for years (Thanks DD!!). But let's not pretend that it is objective truth and immune from all critique. I would guess that most players have at least a few disagreements based on play-style alone.

    All that said, I more or less agree with DD's take on wong (based only on paper as I haven't seen him in the wild yet): he Doesn't seem terrible, and has some unique tricks in his kit, but it's hard to see him as a top tier characrer in pick 2 or pick 3 when unboosted.

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,837 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    @Vhailorx said:

    @Punisher5784 said:

    @Daredevil217 said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    It's based on induction of how characters with defensive/support ends up being useful against meta of the future.

    Okay, so you can’t even dream up a character that Wong would be a counter for? If your stance is defensive/support characters are good against meta, then we have plenty of defensive/support characters already in the game. Along with the ones you mentioned there is Odin, Switch, Abby, Heimdall, Iceman, Yelena, Sersi, etc. and that is just off the top of my head. Your stance is like saying “don’t regret missing out on Havok, because big damage characters are really great”. While true, we have plenty of big damage characters in the game. So you ask yourself is this character bringing something to the table that is unique enough that you would pick them over the other characters in their “class“. You have not answered that question, and just stated, this class is good. If I have every other character in said class, is this one really needed? I champ everyone anyway (Wong is a cover away), so it is moot for me. But a fair question for those who don’t champ everyone to ask is this person worth it? And, what makes them unique enough to chase that they are the best option in a situation (I do believe he is good enough to be the best option in a given boost week, but I don’t see it outside of that). I want to be wrong, which is why I’m asking the question.

    If there is one thing a player on the forum shouldn't do, is argue with the player that created the 5* rankings page lol. If I'm gonna trust someone's opinion, it's gonna be Daredevil217, and I completely agree with his assessment of Wong

    I take your point, but there's no need to declare DD the pope of mpq just yet

    I love the 5* rankings page, use it frequently, and have appreciated the work that DD has put into it for years (Thanks DD!!). But let's not pretend that it is objective truth and immune from all critique. I would guess that most players have at least a few disagreements based on play-style alone.

    All that said, I more or less agree with DD's take on wong (based only on paper as I haven't seen him in the wild yet): he Doesn't seem terrible, and has some unique tricks in his kit, but it's hard to see him as a top tier characrer in pick 2 or pick 3 when unboosted.

    Haha I was not trying to come across as worshipping DD as the Pope of MPQ. I'm simply saying it'll be difficult to debate a player like DD, especially if you have no solid examples, but I agree with you that everyone has their own critique.

    You won't see Wong in the wild except boost week, like many other 5*s. I had high hopes for him but I cannot find a reason to utilize him yet either, plus I would put a target on my back with Kang's away passive

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't remember saying Wong will be top tier, neither did I say that he won't put a target on your back. All I said was he is a good defensive/support option against future meta. Having good defensive/support abilities doesn't mean that it will deter attacks and won't put a target on your back. What it means is that it will be easier to deal with them, compared to playing mirror match. If you want something that won't put a target on your back, then please don't complain about lack of diversity in pvp because almost everyone (Line/Forum/Competitive) will be running such teams.

    Over the past few years of meta, some players would rather play meta mirror match and then feel miserable rather than using something that counters those meta more effectively. The most recent example, as all know, is Chasm/iHulk. There are so many counters out there, some acknowledged by 550 players, but yet some players would rather play mirror match that made them feel terrible/miserable.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,710 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I remember when some players were banging on about Odin and how he would be all over SHIELD Sim because he is a bit annoying. I am still waiting. Is this another one of those cases with Wong? I don't have enough resources to predict the future where Wong teleports in for the MVP.

    (That said and an aside - I am watching GotG3 carefully - two very interesting possibilities there with Rocket and High Evolutionary who might put up some meta potential - HEv could be a very Support type character with his powers to evolve things and well imagine a 5* Rocket)

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm imagining a 5* Rocket.
    He meets Jane.
    It doesn't end well for him.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,710 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bowgentle said:
    I'm imagining a 5* Rocket.
    He meets Jane.
    It doesn't end well for him.

    Well maybe this Rocket has a passive that turns charged tiles into specials and punishes characters who destroy those specials? I mean that is basically his premise - he is a packrat who solves problems? Hmm. Hey Devs - I got an idea!

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So you're saying you have a plan.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,710 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bowgentle said:
    So you're saying you have a plan.

    You are Fiya today, sir!

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bad I've never said that I defeated Chasm/iHulk with only 4*. It's a combination of 4* + 5*. Neither did I said Chasm/iHulk disappeared from pvps. I said I can hardly find Chasm/iHulk teams in the last ~6 weeks of non-boosted Chasm. I've

    1) shown multiple videos of different teams beating Chasm/iHulk.
    2) climbed to 2000 last season using 3* Marvel/Riri/mThor.
    3) posted videos of myself hitting 1200 in 18-22 wins multiple times.
    4) posted videos of my mmr opponents after crossing 1200 points

    To be clear, pvps are done in slice 1. Unfortunately, it's dead silence whenever I post videos of my mmr opponents where I skipped for about 30 seconds and Chasm/iHulk wasn't even dominating nor appearing all over pvps. On the other hand, players with PTSD from dealing with Chasm are seeing him everywhere. >:)

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'll be here all week.
    Along with the other 4 guys who still post here.
    And Beast.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,022 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Wong is pretty good when boosted! (Shocker, I know).

    I have him at like lvl451 or something. All his damage powers do good damage, and the strike tiles he makes are pretty big. I still wouldn't ever use him unboosted, but with +100 levels he's very good.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,448 Chairperson of the Boards
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    His strikes are pretty awesome (when boosted) and with yellow team ups you can get like 40k worth of strike tiles out quickly. If he is not boosted he is pretty meh though.

  • Tiger_Wong
    Tiger_Wong Posts: 1,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No. His strikes are VERY strong out the gate. Lvl 455 Wong puts out 6 strikes of 1517 on turn 1. That’s 9012 tacked on to whatever. Then, if you have Kamar-Taj equipped it tacks on 20% power to each strike. Making them all 1820. Which means…..

    • 10920 damage. On turn 1.

    Yo….. if that’s “meh” damage to you on turn 1…… unboosted….. then what exactly are you looking for? .

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I finally get to test out my hypothesis of Wong/Electro against Chasm/iHulk. Here's the video (2.5 minutes):

    https://streamable.com/wbmj3w

    I always like to use +2 red/yellow to protect my yellow aps on the first turn. I've tried Spells of Wong in different order and I think the best spell to choose first is his protect tile spell. The second would be his protect spell if it keeps getting matched. Then, cast his strike tile spells. As you can see from the videos, his strike tiles are boosting my match damage to 10k range. Finally fire his purple and choose Rescue for three separate hits to down both for good. The match is not as fast as my other counters. However, they didn't take much damage, except for the essential. In pick-3, I would be taking much lesser damage.

    Some notes:
    1) I've gone aggressive with him but I'm took a lot of damage as well.