***** Wong (Sorcerer Supreme) *****

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023
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    Putting down a particular subset of power/ability and ignoring the other effects, and then comparing it to what a meta who specialises in doing it never make sense.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    There's nothing wrong with comparing, as long as it's fair comparison. Picking apart one character's abilities and then comparing it with more than one characters don't make sense.

    History has proven that such thinking are faulty.

  • CallTheStorm
    CallTheStorm Posts: 63 Match Maker
    edited January 2023
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    Can you whale Wong’s team when he is away? Like airborne——— doesn’t work, invisible ——— does work

    Any when Wong is away, is his red passive still taking affect?

    And when Wong’s team against Wong’s team, how is the damage calculated?

  • Seph1roth5
    Seph1roth5 Posts: 391 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't see why you can't kill off all his allies, but his purple specifies that he returns early.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,125 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I did, in fact, consider the other effects on that power in my analysis. The other effects on that power are bad. It's a relatively low heal, some relatively weak special tiles, or a few AP.

    Listen, Wong is fine. He's got a bunch of relatively cheap, decent powers and a couple ok passives. When boosted he'll be somewhere between usable and good, just like 95% of the 5* tier. He won't be usable unboosted, just like 95% of the 5* tier.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    We can only agree to disagree since we look at the game differently. My focus is always about synergy, whereas your view is about speed of beating AIs.

    Anyway, Wong is another good defensive/support option, and with his team true heal, players who are healthpack sensitive would like him. Pair him with Colossus and Valkyrie and you'll be team healing every turn or 2 because your strongest colour will be yellow. There are more teams to play around with him but how his Away passive interact with the game is something new. It opens up a lot of options for fun team.

  • hygge_hound
    hygge_hound Posts: 55 Match Maker
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    It's not fair or logical to compare a new 5* to your best 5* set, to see if he will have any place in the top of your roster? Lol, ok.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2023
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    That's not what I said. As mentioned, people look at things differently. Let's agree to disagree. You and your camp can continue to compare and pick apart each subset of power and then compare it against various meta characters' abilities while I continue to look at the kind of synergy he can bring into the game.

    I think it would be good if we can choose the camp that we are in and then display it under our forum name, so that it's easier to discuss new characters. For example, players can choose whether they are in the meta/speed camp, fun or synergy camp etc. It makes discussion much more easier.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The maximum damage potential for his red is 12109 + (5343*8) = 54583. Multiply it by 1.3 and it deals 71309 damage for 7 red aps.

    Spells
    1) Shield of the Seraphim creates 5 x 1068= 5034 worth of protect tiles.
    2) Mystic Mending team true heals for 5009 health.
    3) Hand of Hoggoth creates 6 x 1460 = 8760 worth of strike tiles.
    4) Bolts of Balthakk Wong drains 3 AP in his team's strongest color, and gains 2 Red and 2 Purple AP.

    In Pick-2, 1/2 Thor could be fun with him feeding Wong's colours and his true healing of Thor to make sure his health is not at a dangerously low level.

    Samurai Daken could be fun with him as well with him converting black aps to red aps. Then, watch his repeaters deal about 15k worth of damage every turn or 2.

    Arcade could be a surprise ally with him and they'll be helping each other out with extra ap gains, boosting of damage or increasing of defense.

    If 4* Juggernaut is a 5* instead and you are playing against him, Electro/Wong would be firing yellow often enough that it makes it feel like it's a 4 v 2 instead of 3v3. I remember one of the CN has 4* Juggernaut, so it should be fun to try it out. Throw in Elektra for return of 1 yellow ap per yellow trap tile activated and watch this team walk off with full health or almost full health.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,772 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Am I reading it right that Wong fires one of his yellow passives apart from healing automatically straight away? Of course Chasm will shut that down but I'm not sure how that works with Bolts of Balthakk as presumably nobody will have acquired any AP yet? If the AP drain applies to Wong himself it would also undo any AP boosts applied potentially? So if there is no AP to drain does it mean that the power can't fire? In which case it is a bit pointless having it as a first turn passive. I probably am just not understanding any of that.

    His red isn't bad but it suffers from Iron Man syndrome in terms of the boost for supernatural allies.

    His purple looks underpowered. There is quite a lot going on with Wong. I must admit that I am a bit of a sucker for one colour multiple choice powers but these don't seem as good as say Prof X are. The Ms Marvel connection seems vague (at least from what we know so far) - it would have been more fitting if Shang Chi had been an option.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    He looks really fun. His design is great and reflects what the character does.
    Will he become a meta character? Yes. Because he is highly defensive and since starting the battle he will be there decreasing 30% of the damage. Also just being there supernatural allies can smash for good.
    However chasm will stun him and probably he won't cast his free repeater spell. So chasm another time will ruin what it would be a good character before him.
    On tiers where chasm is not everywhere wong will shine. On my tier even if they change his red power for targeting character tiles, he will be meh as a few character tiles aren't what is more dangerous about chasm, and also for 7 red I'd rather fire the monkey power.
    So in the end it's actually pretty sad.

  • Bzhai
    Bzhai Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
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    @DAZ0273 said:
    Am I reading it right that Wong fires one of his yellow passives apart from healing automatically straight away?

    I think he creates a random countdown tile at the start and the spell only fires when it expires.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,772 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bzhai said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Am I reading it right that Wong fires one of his yellow passives apart from healing automatically straight away?

    I think he creates a random countdown tile at the start and the spell only fires when it expires.

    Ah, right, so that would give a little amount of time for some AP gain then. Apart from against Chasm of course.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,772 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bad said:
    He looks really fun. His design is great and reflects what the character does.
    Will he become a meta character? Yes. Because he is highly defensive and since starting the battle he will be there decreasing 30% of the damage. Also just being there supernatural allies can smash for good.
    However chasm will stun him and probably he won't cast his free repeater spell. So chasm another time will ruin what it would be a good character before him.
    On tiers where chasm is not everywhere wong will shine. On my tier even if they change his red power for targeting character tiles, he will be meh as a few character tiles aren't what is more dangerous about chasm, and also for 7 red I'd rather fire the monkey power.
    So in the end it's actually pretty sad.

    There are according to @helix72 excellent Affiliations thread 23 Supernatural affiliation characters and 20 Multiversal characters in game and I would expect there is some overlap on that (I assume for example without actually checking that Gargantos falls in to both categories?). That is less than Team Iron Man. So he may not have a lot of potential partners to benefit his damage buff.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    So he may not have a lot of potential partners to benefit his damage buff.

    From what I can see, on 5* tier he has SW, ghostpool, gargantos, kingping, cable, moon knight, monkey, ghost rider, strange, loki, and Wolverine.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,772 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bad said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    So he may not have a lot of potential partners to benefit his damage buff.

    From what I can see, on 5* tier he has SW, ghostpool, gargantos, kingping, cable, moon knight, monkey, ghost rider, strange, loki, and Wolverine.

    Actually reading it again he only gets the damage buff for Supernatural allies, so presumably that removes Kingpin, Cable and Wolverine?

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Bad said:

    Actually reading it again he only gets the damage buff for Supernatural allies, so presumably that removes Kingpin, Cable and Wolverine?

    Yeah. He will take less damage from all of them, and he won't buff kingping cable Wolverine and gargantos.
    Wong can be used as a way to defense from SW and the monkey, being played on a chahulk team.
    That would be the ultimate nerf to any non chahulk team and it will make the meta absolutely excruciating lol.