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  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    No of course they can do what they want, but I'd like to see how they handle Chasm before deciding on faceslaps or praises.
    If they have a lighter hand than Demi with... downward adjustments - and let's face it, anything other than a chopping block will be lighter - then maybe there's no reason to fear nerfs.

    People will still rage, of course, it's what they do.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:
    To be fair I have said on more than one occasion that Shang Chi should really be nerfed because he really is far too OP. He might not deserve it but then again

    He is definitely OP on offense in the hands of a player. In defense? Not at all. He can easily be taken down no matter how high he is on defense. The AI does not know how to play him optimally.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    I'm really interested to see what they do too, but nerfs are always relative. The problem with Gambit (and most of the others, really) is that they took him from a 15 out of 10 down to like a 7 out of 10, while several other characters stayed in the 12 to 13 range. It felt like a huge hit even though they basically just made him average. If they make Chasm average and leave all the other overpowered guys around, it'll feel similarly huge.

    Of course, if they, say, reduce his health by 1%, thousands of players will turn up here screaming and crying about a "bait and switch" or whatever, and how they've killed the game, so they really can't win anyway.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    There are plenty of powerful characters that the AI does not know how to use.

    The real question is this... in PvP can you beat Shang Chi? Yes...easily...he is always the last man I leave standing...he is not a real problem in PvP.

    He is top tier in PvE and near trash tier in PvP. He does not warrant a nerf.

    In PvE is he the part of the fastest team? No. I am openly anti-nerf...but if you nerf SC he will be useless in both PvE and PvP, and what does the community gain from that? Nothing.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    SC+AC is part of the fastest teams in pves.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    The fastest team is still iHulk, Okoye, Warlock unless anything has changed in the past few months.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Some player with 550 SC said that he could get T1 or T5. I can't his nick in the forum.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Not this t10 discussion again.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,812 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Codex said:

    Why should ppl that hoard for 550 benefit? The developer are against hoarding, 100 covers of the player choice is laughable. I would be praying for a nerf every single time.

    You can't be playing this game if you think developers are against hoarding. Absolutely nothing they do deters from hoarding. There's ways they could stop hoarding if they were against it. Why should they benefit? Because they have put the time in with gameplay or money to gather those rewards.

    @entrailbucket said:
    Seems like they already decided. Someone asked if they'd rule out a nerf to Chasm and they said no. When they murder him it's gonna be so satisfying.

    So much bitterness and jealousy. People are never happy until there's a passive to make the game easy for them.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    "Bitterness and jealousy" lol. I'm definitely jealous of the fact that all the hoarders will be completely screwed when they nerf Chasm, while I'll continue doing great!

    If you don't hate everyone else who plays this game, what are we even doing here? It's a competitive game...I hate all of you, and all of everyone else, with the passion of a thousand burning suns. I want all of you to have an awful time, and I want all of you to quit.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    I want all of you to have an awful time, and I want all of you to quit.

    :D:D:D

    I just want the game to be accessible. If I wanted to play an actually competitive game I'd go back to Dota, CS, or WoW Arena.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    I promise you this game is so much more fun when it's competitive. You don't have to compete -- you can just show up and collect your rewards, but why? The rewards can only be used to play the game, to give you a more competitive roster!

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    The game feels like a single player game even in PvP. It is just score chasing, which has been part of single player gaming for what 24-25 years now?

    This isn't competitive like Red Alert was back in the day, or Star Craft when battle.net first released.

    I'd say this is barely a multiplayer game at all. That's all well and good though. There is no real skill here which more or less was agreed on in your skill thread.

    The competitive part of this game is really just...who has the best roster, and who is able to interface with others outside the game more effectively.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    PVE is the competitive part.
    PVP is a cupcake eating competition beyond 1200 except for s2 and 5.
    And people who play there know what they sign up for.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think some players prefer not to compete, and that's ok, but that doesn't change the undeniable fact that it's literally impossible to play without competing. If you finish top 100 in PvE, someone finishes #101 and misses those rewards -- and it's because of you. People will be like, "oh who cares, they weren't really trying," but you can't know that unless you're asking them, and you're not.

    In PvP it's even more obvious. You cannot earn points without taking points away from others. Everyone you attack is a human player who exists and loses points every time you attack them. You can't send your -60 along with a note with your intentions, like "oh sorry, nothing personal, you just had the easiest team, I'm not competing."

    You can try to pretend that other players aren't trying, or don't care, or that they're just AI generated enemies, but they're not and you can't know their intentions.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @LavaManLee said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    To be fair I have said on more than one occasion that Shang Chi should really be nerfed because he really is far too OP. He might not deserve it but then again

    He is definitely OP on offense in the hands of a player. In defense? Not at all. He can easily be taken down no matter how high he is on defense. The AI does not know how to play him optimally.

    Oh I agree but his ability to punch up and not even need to be champed is not balanced in the slightest! You shouldn't be able to climb with him the way you can. Then who cares about defence because you can leave a trolly defence team out. He also single handedly reduced CL10 to a joke.

    Shang Chi is my highest covered character BTW, so don't mistake this as some sort of grudge or bad faith. Lol. Just sometimes a spade is a spade. He is waaaaaay too good and I love him but I don't think he is good for the game to be honest.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,641 Chairperson of the Boards

    Not saying others aren't trying and I'm not pretending they aren't, when they clearly are. I get fighting for placement, and I've been on the 101 placement more than a couple times. Really, top 50 is where the tighter placement is, but that is beside the point.

    But, it is not competitive in the same sense as skill based PvP games like Counterstrike ort DotA. Really, this is what I'm trying to get at. It is not a bad thing either I enjoy it. I've moved on from competitive multiplayer gaming so this suits me well. A long grind game with global placement.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,826 Chairperson of the Boards

    I understand, and I think I was mostly just reacting to others' talking points (I'm sure they'll pop up here soon). It absolutely is a multiplayer game though, it's just that some players try to unilaterally decide that it's not, and forget about all the other players -- those players exist and will continue to exist.

    What's neat is that it actually can be sort of like those other games if you want it to be, it's just not super obvious how to do it and there's no easy way to learn.

  • 658_2
    658_2 Posts: 235 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:
    I'm really interested to see what they do too, but nerfs are always relative. The problem with Gambit (and most of the others, really) is that they took him from a 15 out of 10 down to like a 7 out of 10, while several other characters stayed in the 12 to 13 range. It felt like a huge hit even though they basically just made him average. If they make Chasm average and leave all the other overpowered guys around, it'll feel similarly huge.

    Yep. I remember the old lead dev coming on here many years ago and talking briefly about nerf strategy. He made the point (essentially) that if you nerf the most used character and he’s still the most used after, what was the point? I always thought that was either cynical (let’s sell some new meta!) or the way only someone very literal minded could think. People complain about use rate, and it’s not like it’s not a factor, but Thorkoye was ubiquitous and was one of the least complained about metas for a reason (outside of that one
    guy who wanted Thor to go down).

    The Chasm nerf that is obviously coming is going to be super telling about how these new devs think. I’m guessing minor adjustments, maybe even just tweaks, rather than nerf to oblivion.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    If you don't hate everyone else who plays this game, what are we even doing here? It's a competitive game...I hate all of you, and all of everyone else, with the passion of a thousand burning suns. I want all of you to have an awful time, and I want all of you to quit.

    I hear you! Finally another villain in the forum!
    Come to the dark side and join me!
    My affiliations are villains, White Knight, Top-Record-Flagged.

    By the way, you can play the game without using Line, like me. Perhaps you will realize that people hits you quickly although playing on S1.

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