The ChaHulk meta

entrailbucket

Adding non-player teams at any point above zero would remove all strategy in PvP placement and replace it with a contest of who could play the longest. The last time they did something like that, hundreds of players played MPQ essentially 24/7 to win PvE events. They ended up undoing that change -- game developers generally don't want players to die playing their games these days.

Boosted 5* in PvP and PvE are needed more than ever these days, as there's still a sizable gap in power levels between the top 5* and the...not top...5*. They still need to encourage players to collect every character, and boosted 5* make the lower tier 5* usable, if only during the week when they're boosted.

HoundofShadow

Boosted 5* also affect 2-4 players and many of them are complaining about getting paired against boosted 5*, and the dev said something like mmr rework will also target this problem they are facing. Currently, mmr ignores 5* which are below a certain level for young players but this doesn't prevent them from getting matched against boosted non-championed 5*. I'm not sure how they are going to solve this problem, unless they ban all players below 5* tiers from using 5* characters.

As for the potential "tapping" problem, they could limit it to 1200 points and below.

entrailbucket

My guess is they'd just hack in a workaround so players with rosters below a certain level don't see enemies over a certain level. (Players will absolutely figure out a way to exploit that by softcapping, though) The matchmaking algorithm is like 75% workarounds at this point anyway, one more won't kill them. Removing boosted 5* from the game entirely would be a massive overreaction to a relatively contained problem.

If you cap points at 1200, wouldn't everyone at 1200 win first place? That's not really a "versus" mode, it sounds like you're asking them to remove placement rewards and make pvp progression-only.

KGB

They just need to change the 5* boost from a flat +100 levels to be a proportional boost based on how much the 5* is leveled.

For champed 5* (L450+) it would be 100% of +100 levels which is +100 levels as it is now.
For an unleveled 5* (L255) it would be 0% of +100 levels which is +0 levels.
For a L350 5* (~half way between 255 and 450) it would be 50% of +100 or +50 levels.

This would reduce the affect of the 5* boost for 2-4* MMR.

KGB

Bowgentle

@KGB said:
They just need to change the 5* boost from a flat +100 levels to be a proportional boost based on how much the 5* is leveled.

For champed 5* (L450+) it would be 100% of +100 levels which is +100 levels as it is now.
For an unleveled 5* (L255) it would be 0% of +100 levels which is +0 levels.
For a L350 5* (~half way between 255 and 450) it would be 50% of +100 or +50 levels.

This would reduce the affect of the 5* boost for 2-4* MMR.

KGB

You're absolutely NOT getting even MORE benefits for softcapping, no way.

HoundofShadow

I meant the "fake players" will disappear from 1100-1200 points onwards. Anything beyond that is your normal mmr.

Bad

Imo what is needed is more people engaging pvp. With the rewards per win decreased people trying to climb losed engagement.
Thanks to the chahulk meta the points on pvp scarced. Riri and the monkey will fix that soon.
Imo what is needed is to incentivate pvp per points, perhaps an exclusive increase to rewards 1000 and 1200 points.
More engagement means more variety more options to skip and ultimately more fun.

LavaManLee

@Bad said:
Imo what is needed is more people engaging pvp. With the rewards per win decreased people trying to climb losed engagement.

Totally agree. I appreciate them lowering the number of wins for the 4* rewards down to 25. However, that creates a huge gap between win 25 and win 50 and, to be honest, the reward to get to 50 wins just isn't worth it.

There needs to be more incentive to get from 25 to 50 and then, as Bad says, more people would stay and play in PVP.

HoundofShadow

The gap has always been 25, isn't it? I remember it was 50 and 75.

Point wise, the gap is 1000 and 1200.

DAZ0273

When the CP was put at 1000 points a while back it seemed to drive engagement but I guess the Devs saw too many people were getting there. I know during that season I hit 10,000+ due to the CP incentive whereas these days I can't always be bothered to do so.

HoundofShadow

Another theory I heard is that it reduced engagement because cp is worth more than 4* shards. CP at 50 wins or 1000 points was a thing for a couple of weeks?.

DAZ0273

@HoundofShadow said:
Another theory I heard is that it reduced engagement because cp is worth more than 4* shards. CP at 50 wins or 1000 points was a thing for a couple of weeks?.

Yeah, I can't remember how long it was for but I personally found it a big incentive. I could be an outlier though.

HoundofShadow

It's possible for both experience to exist together. Players who are used to hitting 75wins or 1200 wins would stop at 50 or 1000 wins due to the switch since 4* shards aren't worth the extra 25 wins. On the other hand, players who don't go for 75 wins or 1200 wins are aiming for 50 wins/1000 points instead.

DAZ0273

I suppose changing 4* shards for 5* shards could be the fix to keeping players going.

entrailbucket

Players love using strong defensive teams, because it means others can't attack them easily.

Players hate facing strong defensive teams, because they can't attack others easily.

Unfortunately, in a PvP game, it's really hard to balance these impulses. The best solution here is to make sure that teams that are good on defense are bad on offense and vice versa, but the game isn't necessarily deep enough to make that happen easily. One way might be to change certain characters' powers based on whether they're on offense or defense.

Sekilicious

@DAZ0273 said:
I suppose changing 4* shards for 5* shards could be the fix to keeping players going.

hhmmmm 250 5* shards for 1200 pts and 50 wins, dropping cp to 1100 and 35 sounds wonderful. Especially if they only rotated the classics.

Normally, I would suggest this become its own thread but the Chasm hatefest seems to have jumped the shark. Someone let me know if they want the rewards discussion split out.

HoundofShadow

They will put 5* shards in pvp progression rewards after they release 6*.

Sekilicious

We might have said the same thing about 5s with double feeders once upon a time.

killahKlown

@LavaManLee said:

@Bad said:
Imo what is needed is more people engaging pvp. With the rewards per win decreased people trying to climb losed engagement.

Totally agree. I appreciate them lowering the number of wins for the 4* rewards down to 25. However, that creates a huge gap between win 25 and win 50 and, to be honest, the reward to get to 50 wins just isn't worth it.

There needs to be more incentive to get from 25 to 50 and then, as Bad says, more people would stay and play in PVP.

I disagree, CP is the most valuable commodity in the game. I'd trade all other pvp progression rewards just for the CP

HoundofShadow

Yes, and I believe they are preparing for something big, and that's why they are giving away 5* covers and shards like candies to cushion the impact. Looking at things optimistically, the big thing is 6* or a pseudo-like 6*, and I'm thinking Support being activated in pvps and pves for AIs.

In pves, it'll take you about 2 days or ~100 minutes playtime to hit 250 5* shards. In PvPs, there are players who can hit 1200 points in under 40 minutes. Getting 250 5* shards in pvps progression that easily means the value of 5* are lowered. 5* is the end game afterall, unless plans change.