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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,000 Chairperson of the Boards

    I assume Polaris is championed...champion 4* are likely handled quite differently than near-base-level 5*. Lots of new players use their one-cover 5*, so I'd imagine there's a carve-out in matchmaking for them, and this situation seems to confirm that.

    Of course, most near-base-level 5* aren't capable of beating champion 5*, so perhaps the carve-out is something the devs should look into.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    My mmr is similar to Sekilicious. Mine might be slightly higher. I used SC + mThor / AC to climb this week and I hit 1200 in slice 1. For your case, it's likely a timing or playstyle problem.

    What kind of opponents are you hitting, point-wise?

    Timing-wise, there isn't a specific timing to play. Just climb anytime 24 hours before the pvps ends, and don't climb a few hours (~5 hours) before pvps end.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,656 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I assume Polaris is championed...champion 4* are likely handled quite differently than near-base-level 5*. Lots of new players use their one-cover 5*, so I'd imagine there's a carve-out in matchmaking for them, and this situation seems to confirm that.

    Of course, most near-base-level 5* aren't capable of beating champion 5*, so perhaps the carve-out is something the devs should look into.

    He’s alive !!

    @Bowgentle said:

    @dianetics said:

    Run Thanos with your best boosted 5 of the week.
    Unless you have a really gigantic Thanos, he shouldn't do more than 5k damage to your team, your boosted 5 won't care much about taking 25k damage per match.

    I ran him several times on many different teams. It’s not good. Yes he pushes the team down but he also opens you up. Unless you have a super fat roster Thanos is not the answer.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    You can always draw healthpacks from vaults. I don't know why some players can be healthpack conscious. Some of them have over 1000 Sweet or whatever Taco tokens and they can't bear to use it. :D At worst, you use 20 healthpacks, and the game will refill your healthpacks every 36 minutes as long as you have fewer than 10.

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,656 Chairperson of the Boards

    If I have less than 500 I’m not happy. I try to use less than 1 health pack each day.
    I want a buffer to push PvE/PvP if I have to.

  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor

    Health pack usage is not something I've ever thought about in this game

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    If you're above 9 health Packs at any time, you're doing something wrong.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    To use a big amount of healthpacks, to have to draw resources from other side, to wait for healthpacks refilling, is not something players desire, specially when pvp was more fun and more diverse before chasm.
    For that reason hit monkey has been released, in order to make pvp reasonable again.
    A few minutes ago I fought a chasm Mthor big wheel team with my chasm, SW Crystal team. When his chasm was alone I spend 5 minutes matching with him until I won.
    That's not reasonable, nor fun. Just set his regeneration at 5 and the enemy will struggle to down him.
    A match mirror is crazy and not choosing chasm is a target in the back.
    Hit monkey indeed will help to down that character with his increased 35% damage, so I'm waiting that monkey like if was the new messiah.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @entrailbucket said:
    I assume Polaris is championed...champion 4* are likely handled quite differently than near-base-level 5*. Lots of new players use their one-cover 5*, so I'd imagine there's a carve-out in matchmaking for them, and this situation seems to confirm that.

    Of course, most near-base-level 5* aren't capable of beating champion 5*, so perhaps the carve-out is something the devs should look into.

    I firmly believe that only being able to leave championed characters on defense would solve a few problems people have with 2 or 3* PvP. If no one in my MMR can see me because I left a 2/1/1 lvl280 iHulk out but my lvl280 Polaris (as she was when I used her) is visible that is a problem.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    Well they're reworking MMR anyway.
    Maybe the magical invisible climbs will be over then.
    Or someone will just invent a new spell.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    My mmr is similar to Sekilicious. Mine might be slightly higher. I used SC + mThor / AC to climb this week and I hit 1200 in slice 1. For your case, it's likely a timing or playstyle problem.

    What kind of opponents are you hitting, point-wise?

    Timing-wise, there isn't a specific timing to play. Just climb anytime 24 hours before the pvps ends, and don't climb a few hours (~5 hours) before pvps end.

    We may have the same MMR but I have probably 1/4 of the 5s you have champed. The only time I have ever had two champed boosted was when KK and mThor were boosted.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,000 Chairperson of the Boards

    I believe boosted characters do not affect matchmaking anymore, because when they did (years ago, when 4* boosts first became a thing), that caused big problems.

    Matchmaking is really complicated because it started off simple and then players figured out ways to exploit it (over and over and over again). It's had about 100 increasingly bizarre fixes, one-offs and exceptions applied to it, some of which were designed to fix exploits from the early days of the game that don't/can't even exist anymore.

    If they actually are redoing it from scratch, they'll need to be very careful to not introduce new exploits, because players will be looking for them right away.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Weekly boosted 5* was introduced in May/June 2021. Back then, I had only ~15 champed 5* and there were about 57 5*. My probability of hitting one boosted 5* was pretty low, which is ~1/4. And my best non-boosted option were 5* Wanda/Colossus. Anyway, we can only agree to disagree on this.

    It's probably time for the dev to remove boosted 5 from pvps because I believe there are enough varieties in pvps. Shield sim is a pretty good reflection of what you would see in pvps: pretty much one meta + any common partners. SC/Riri + mThor should be pretty common and they are considered glass cannon. Hit-Monkey/Wanda is a glass cannon. Chasm would be much easier to deal with. Wouldn't non-win-based players prefer climbing on glass cannons than slogging against boosted 5*? You get fewer variety but your climb would be easier with all these glass cannons.

    Reworked mmr will probably come next year and I wonder if they would inject fake players/seed teams into mid/late climb. Doing this is probably the best way to solve mmr and lack of variety problem for different tiers of players if they remove boost from pvps. This will also solve problems for 1-4 players who are paired against similar tier players who put 5* characters out on defense. The algorithms will push players pre-made duos if there's a lack of opponents and adjust their levels based on their top 3-5 average.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Boosted 5* also affect 2-4 players and many of them are complaining about getting paired against boosted 5*, and the dev said something like mmr rework will also target this problem they are facing. Currently, mmr ignores 5* which are below a certain level for young players but this doesn't prevent them from getting matched against boosted non-championed 5*. I'm not sure how they are going to solve this problem, unless they ban all players below 5* tiers from using 5* characters.

    As for the potential "tapping" problem, they could limit it to 1200 points and below.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 6,000 Chairperson of the Boards

    My guess is they'd just hack in a workaround so players with rosters below a certain level don't see enemies over a certain level. (Players will absolutely figure out a way to exploit that by softcapping, though) The matchmaking algorithm is like 75% workarounds at this point anyway, one more won't kill them. Removing boosted 5* from the game entirely would be a massive overreaction to a relatively contained problem.

    If you cap points at 1200, wouldn't everyone at 1200 win first place? That's not really a "versus" mode, it sounds like you're asking them to remove placement rewards and make pvp progression-only.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,287 Chairperson of the Boards

    They just need to change the 5* boost from a flat +100 levels to be a proportional boost based on how much the 5* is leveled.

    For champed 5* (L450+) it would be 100% of +100 levels which is +100 levels as it is now.
    For an unleveled 5* (L255) it would be 0% of +100 levels which is +0 levels.
    For a L350 5* (~half way between 255 and 450) it would be 50% of +100 or +50 levels.

    This would reduce the affect of the 5* boost for 2-4* MMR.

    KGB

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @KGB said:
    They just need to change the 5* boost from a flat +100 levels to be a proportional boost based on how much the 5* is leveled.

    For champed 5* (L450+) it would be 100% of +100 levels which is +100 levels as it is now.
    For an unleveled 5* (L255) it would be 0% of +100 levels which is +0 levels.
    For a L350 5* (~half way between 255 and 450) it would be 50% of +100 or +50 levels.

    This would reduce the affect of the 5* boost for 2-4* MMR.

    KGB

    You're absolutely NOT getting even MORE benefits for softcapping, no way.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I meant the "fake players" will disappear from 1100-1200 points onwards. Anything beyond that is your normal mmr.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Imo what is needed is more people engaging pvp. With the rewards per win decreased people trying to climb losed engagement.
    Thanks to the chahulk meta the points on pvp scarced. Riri and the monkey will fix that soon.
    Imo what is needed is to incentivate pvp per points, perhaps an exclusive increase to rewards 1000 and 1200 points.
    More engagement means more variety more options to skip and ultimately more fun.

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