The ChaHulk meta

dianetics

PP Spider-Man is overtuned for what Chasm is doing right now. I’m really surprised I’m not seeing Chasm iHulk PPSpidey in pick 3 right now.

PP is a 5* that does a 2 turn team stun for 6ap. Probably the strongest stun on the 5* tier.

HoundofShadow

And his green can hit a total of 6 times. If I'd him champed, I would use him with SC.

ThaRoadWarrior

His health is very low unboosted, and he doesn’t hit that hard. So in simulator it isn’t quite what you want it to be. He only has 52,330 health at 450, and that green costs 10ap to randomly do ~5700 up to 5 times. Stick around is cheap at 6ap, but it’s top color so it can be not always easy to fire depending on the board.

ThaRoadWarrior

@dianetics said:
PP Spider-Man is overtuned for what Chasm is doing right now. I’m really surprised I’m not seeing Chasm iHulk PPSpidey in pick 3 right now.

PP is a 5* that does a 2 turn team stun for 6ap. Probably the strongest stun on the 5* tier.

SMPP has been in the game in the DOA pile for like 4 years now, I would suggest that it is perhaps Chasm who is overtuned? “Fixing” Spider man because of Chasm would be like that time Danver5 got “fixed” because of (I assume) Polaris and BRB.

dianetics

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
SMPP has been in the game in the DOA pile for like 4 years now, I would suggest that it is perhaps Chasm who is overtuned? “Fixing” Spider man because of Chasm would be like that time Danver5 got “fixed” because of (I assume) Polaris and BRB.

You are probably right, but PP is very strong with powered up 4* web creators.
What Chasm does empowers PP a lot, and I do not think PP needs a fix.
I was just musing why I have not seen PP come up in pick 3's over She-Hulk when he is clearly the better pick 3 over She-Hulk since he synergizes with Chasm better.

HoundofShadow

I find SMPP's kits useful and good. He's just unlucky that a lot of his partners are in 4* land because his abilities revolve around web tiles.

ThaRoadWarrior

Well, unlucky, or you might say he was designed to play-down like Hawkeye seemed to be for such a long time when he was attached at the hip to Coulson.

Bad

Spider 5* has 50k health. Nothing to compare with shulk 83k health at same baby champed.
Also 6 blues is cheap but with chasm and his void tiles 0 AP it could be a lot. And AI will use it when there is no web available. AI can try hard to do it.

entrailbucket

Thanos completely smokes Chasm/Hulk. You don't need Thanos at a very high level, either. All you do is kill Hulk over and over.

There's a weird order of operations thing with Hulk and Court Death...if you kill Chasm, he'll resurrect and stun you before Court Death fires. But if you kill Hulk, he'll immediately resurrect and hurt Chasm, then Court Death will fire, hitting both and stunning both. If Court Death downs them both you win. Otherwise continue killing Hulk until Court Death downs them both.

It's also (apparently) really hard for Chasm/Hulk to beat Thanos on offense, because Chasm dies a lot on offense and the order of operations is reversed so you'll eat Court Death a bunch.

Thanos is a way way better counter than that new guy, because Chasm/Hulk will steamroll that guy when he's on defense.

ThaRoadWarrior

Thanos is pretty great, at baby champ levels his health is way better than most 5 from that vintage. His purple shuts down void tile and web tile production also. Just needs a good partner.

HoundofShadow

I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

entrailbucket

Chasm and Hulk both hurt themselves a lot, so Court Death doesn't need to be hitting for 100,000 to end the fight. Even if yours is like 10k it should work.

Try it! Bring your highest match damage 5* (or a guy with free passive damage) and Thanos. Attack only Hulk. When Hulk dies and resurrects, attack him again until he dies again. Repeat until you win.

Court Death is balanced for enemies that can only die once -- with infinite resurrections it's infinitely busted.

ThaRoadWarrior

I was using it for awhile. It was definitely working, but if you go back to the start of this thread you’ll see I was getting some weird timings with Court Death and Chasm that were making it hard to be consistent.

killahKlown

@HoundofShadow said:
I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

Are you sure Emma can boost Court Death? I don't think Okoye boosts that because she gets stunned.

HoundofShadow

Once you get her blue cd out, she won't be stunned for 3 turn. It costs only 5 blue aps and it's her second colour.

ThaRoadWarrior

If you can prevent the stun, CD is boostable for sure. I was running Apocalypse/Thano5/Onslaught in pick-3 for several seasons.

Sekilicious

I think we’ve circled back to the problem of can you climb with a counter without a huge target on your back. I think Thanos/Emma might be considered a viable grill team. I don’t know if something like Thanos/Wanda would be better or worse than Wanda/Hit Monkey. But that brings us to Thanos other problem is he is an old character and so is difficult to acquire.

Bad

Yeah it's only needed to fire emma's blue, to timing everything right, and to get a lot of red (strongest emma color) for to boost courth death.
Easy thing! Why did they release hit monkey?
Oh, and a paper for helping to write all the people who hit you meanwhile.

dianetics

I don’t think Thanos is viable. He does so much team damage you may as well just keep hitting skip and save those health packs.

I think Monkey Wanda is going to work a lot better and more reliably.

HoundofShadow

As far as putting out grills in pvps is concerned, I've been putting out "grills" out in pvps for the past ~2 years unknowningly. However, it rarely affects my average number of wins to hit 1200: 18-22 wins. The most common number of wins I see in my record is 19. In case no one has calculated, 16 wins is the minimum number of wins needed to hit 1200, and this is assuming every win is worth 75 points. Unless you are in Line, it's impossible to hit 75 point target for every win.

Based on my experience and mmr, it's more about playing strategically in pvps, rather than being concerned about putting a big target on your back. I get hit about 3-4 times on average during my climb. This is totally normal.

Here's the logic for boosted Thanos + Emma against Chasm/iHulk:

Non boosted iHulk+Chasm+Essential is likely to have the following hp: 45k/90k/40k, whereas boosted Thanos+Emma+Essential has : 160k+72k+40k. Sure, I may have put out a "grills" when I beat Chasm/iHulk for 75 points but as long as I can down Chasm/iHulk faster than other players can down my boosted Thanos + Emma, I'm still going to hit 1200 in 18-22 wins.

I find it's really difficult to convince players not to worry about "putting a target" on their back as long as they could and know how to play strategically in slice 1 pvp. This is akin to the "concern" of those players who got scared by champed 5* mmr. In reddit, there are quite a number of players who have fully covered the typical meta recommended but they were afraid of champing them due to hearing negative experiences in 5* mmr pvps. That's why they have beem softcapping their 5* for months or years.