The ChaHulk meta

Bad

Spider 5* has 50k health. Nothing to compare with shulk 83k health at same baby champed.
Also 6 blues is cheap but with chasm and his void tiles 0 AP it could be a lot. And AI will use it when there is no web available. AI can try hard to do it.

entrailbucket

Thanos completely smokes Chasm/Hulk. You don't need Thanos at a very high level, either. All you do is kill Hulk over and over.

There's a weird order of operations thing with Hulk and Court Death...if you kill Chasm, he'll resurrect and stun you before Court Death fires. But if you kill Hulk, he'll immediately resurrect and hurt Chasm, then Court Death will fire, hitting both and stunning both. If Court Death downs them both you win. Otherwise continue killing Hulk until Court Death downs them both.

It's also (apparently) really hard for Chasm/Hulk to beat Thanos on offense, because Chasm dies a lot on offense and the order of operations is reversed so you'll eat Court Death a bunch.

Thanos is a way way better counter than that new guy, because Chasm/Hulk will steamroll that guy when he's on defense.

ThaRoadWarrior

Thanos is pretty great, at baby champ levels his health is way better than most 5 from that vintage. His purple shuts down void tile and web tile production also. Just needs a good partner.

HoundofShadow

I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

entrailbucket

Chasm and Hulk both hurt themselves a lot, so Court Death doesn't need to be hitting for 100,000 to end the fight. Even if yours is like 10k it should work.

Try it! Bring your highest match damage 5* (or a guy with free passive damage) and Thanos. Attack only Hulk. When Hulk dies and resurrects, attack him again until he dies again. Repeat until you win.

Court Death is balanced for enemies that can only die once -- with infinite resurrections it's infinitely busted.

ThaRoadWarrior

I was using it for awhile. It was definitely working, but if you go back to the start of this thread you’ll see I was getting some weird timings with Court Death and Chasm that were making it hard to be consistent.

killahKlown

@HoundofShadow said:
I'm not sure about that because the meta back then was probably different.

Emma Frost is pretty good if you can get her blue out before Thanos triggers Court Death: + a minimum of 70% power damage. His getting boosted on December 22 means a level 450->569 Thanos would be dealing ~60k AoE.

Are you sure Emma can boost Court Death? I don't think Okoye boosts that because she gets stunned.

HoundofShadow

Once you get her blue cd out, she won't be stunned for 3 turn. It costs only 5 blue aps and it's her second colour.

ThaRoadWarrior

If you can prevent the stun, CD is boostable for sure. I was running Apocalypse/Thano5/Onslaught in pick-3 for several seasons.

Sekilicious

I think we’ve circled back to the problem of can you climb with a counter without a huge target on your back. I think Thanos/Emma might be considered a viable grill team. I don’t know if something like Thanos/Wanda would be better or worse than Wanda/Hit Monkey. But that brings us to Thanos other problem is he is an old character and so is difficult to acquire.

Bad

Yeah it's only needed to fire emma's blue, to timing everything right, and to get a lot of red (strongest emma color) for to boost courth death.
Easy thing! Why did they release hit monkey?
Oh, and a paper for helping to write all the people who hit you meanwhile.

dianetics

I don’t think Thanos is viable. He does so much team damage you may as well just keep hitting skip and save those health packs.

I think Monkey Wanda is going to work a lot better and more reliably.

HoundofShadow

As far as putting out grills in pvps is concerned, I've been putting out "grills" out in pvps for the past ~2 years unknowningly. However, it rarely affects my average number of wins to hit 1200: 18-22 wins. The most common number of wins I see in my record is 19. In case no one has calculated, 16 wins is the minimum number of wins needed to hit 1200, and this is assuming every win is worth 75 points. Unless you are in Line, it's impossible to hit 75 point target for every win.

Based on my experience and mmr, it's more about playing strategically in pvps, rather than being concerned about putting a big target on your back. I get hit about 3-4 times on average during my climb. This is totally normal.

Here's the logic for boosted Thanos + Emma against Chasm/iHulk:

Non boosted iHulk+Chasm+Essential is likely to have the following hp: 45k/90k/40k, whereas boosted Thanos+Emma+Essential has : 160k+72k+40k. Sure, I may have put out a "grills" when I beat Chasm/iHulk for 75 points but as long as I can down Chasm/iHulk faster than other players can down my boosted Thanos + Emma, I'm still going to hit 1200 in 18-22 wins.

I find it's really difficult to convince players not to worry about "putting a target" on their back as long as they could and know how to play strategically in slice 1 pvp. This is akin to the "concern" of those players who got scared by champed 5* mmr. In reddit, there are quite a number of players who have fully covered the typical meta recommended but they were afraid of champing them due to hearing negative experiences in 5* mmr pvps. That's why they have beem softcapping their 5* for months or years.

killahKlown

@Sekilicious said:
I think we’ve circled back to the problem of can you climb with a counter without a huge target on your back. I think Thanos/Emma might be considered a viable grill team. I don’t know if something like Thanos/Wanda would be better or worse than Wanda/Hit Monkey. But that brings us to Thanos other problem is he is an old character and so is difficult to acquire.

It's only a problem if you value climbing without being hit. Some of us don't really care about taking hits. Biggest concern is quick matches, no wiping.

Bowgentle

@dianetics said:
I don’t think Thanos is viable. He does so much team damage you may as well just keep hitting skip and save those health packs.

I think Monkey Wanda is going to work a lot better and more reliably.

Run Thanos with your best boosted 5 of the week.
Unless you have a really gigantic Thanos, he shouldn't do more than 5k damage to your team, your boosted 5 won't care much about taking 25k damage per match.

Sekilicious

You guys don’t have to convince me there are viable counters and some of you can time getting to 1200 pts without shield hopping. It is very difficult with most rosters though and that is my only point in this part of the discussion. The closest I have ever gotten without hopping is 1150 with boosted SC this week. At that point I started bleeding points. If we are talking boosted Thanos that is a different story.

As an aside, my ‘best’ defensive team is Chasm (4/4/5 lvl453) and iHulk (2/1/1 lvl280). That is a prime candidate to be Thanosed to oblivion, and anyone with Thanos should do it repeatedly. IHulk only has 10k hp after all. It can float at 700+ pts while my meta team for the week SC (3/5/5 lvl458 boosted to 578) and mThor (5/3/5 lvl453) gets hammered at 400 pts (as does Chasm/mThor actually). The only place I have trouble floating with iHulk is lightning rounds.

entrailbucket

The matchmaking algorithm is responsible for that. Players who can queue the underleveled chasm/hulk team at 700pts won't have the tools to beat it. It'll be invisible to well-developed 5* rosters until you hit a certain point threshold.

Sekilicious

My MMR is well within the 5* range. If it calculated on top-3 it is at 460, and top 5 at 457. Maybe no one in that range has Thanos at a viable level. Also, I don’t climb with that team. Normally I climb with Chasm/mThor with SC and mThor the last couple of days. SC/Chavez for hops., since even unboosted that is my fastest team though vulnerable to being picked on. If anything I shouldn’t be able to leave iHulk on a defense team.

entrailbucket

Your roster controls who you see.

The team you use controls who sees you.

If I use a 1* team, I will fight 5* opponents, but only 1* teams will be able to fight me.

Except for retaliations from people you attack, your underleveled Hulk is only visible to players using 4* or underleveled 5* (until you cross a certain point threshold).

Sekilicious

If you say so. I get hammered by all sorts of 5* MMR jerks if I use BRB/Polaris so I’m skeptical.