The ChaHulk meta

killahKlown

Which is what I disagree with

LavaManLee

@killahKlown said:
Which is what I disagree with

Cool. Then I disagree with your disagreement so we can just stalemate it. :-)

HoundofShadow

You don't need everyone to fill them up. All they need is enough players to do it. As for language barrier, I'm not sure if it would be translated automatically for them because some players use non-English version of MPQ.

As for lying, they could look at the data to see if all 20-100 member alliances voted for the same reasons. Looking at past data of fan favourite characters, it's highly unlikely they can influence the polls greatly. If they could do so, Dr Strange wouldn't be appearing in fan favourite store frequently. We also won't be getting Abigail Brand as one of the T20 fan favourites.

1/2 Thor would probably hate full health after every match. This solution is merely solving perception problems or solving problems players with unusual requirements set for themselves. I've no problem using up all my healthpacks and then drawing from Taco vaults. Healthpacks are going to replenish every 36 minutes as long as you've fewer than 10. That's 6 hours. It's going to be rare for players to play 6 hours consecutively.

Maybe they could do a combination of both or more instead. They could hypothesise what those data about skipping teams are saying and use surveys to help iron out any discrepancies.

If all points are equal, players who play optimally or competitively are likely to target glass cannons first because they like to win matches quickly and hate dealing with defensive teams or teams that drain healthpacks. I'm sure they already have a list of teams optimal players dislike in 5* land.

In 4* land or below, it's more difficult to find out the most dislike team because they hate dealing with boosted 5* or 5* with much higher levels than them even if they have only a few covers. It's the match damage that kills their 23/4* teams. Also, many new players can't differentiate retal nodes and normal nodes, so they thought those 5* championed players are part of their mmr even though it doesn't make sense to them.

Bad

I'm pretty sure the chahulk team has a 70% skip ratio. And if a team has that ratio, something serious happens.
Personally I love to bully chahulks teams, however if I'm climbing I skip them because I can't afford to play chasm game for x minutes although they could worth 75 points (but generally don't worth that anymore). And also I need to change characters as chasm counters a wide range of them.

That data is what they should search because I'm sure it happens the same with all players.
If they had known that data the monkey would had been released earlier.

HoundofShadow

If skipping is the main factor use for such decision, it will be prompt to abuse. Those players with over 10 millions can afford to skip 1 million times.

I skip Chasm/iHulk team as well but it's largely because they are worth puny points. In the last pvp, I hit every 75 points Chasm/iHulk I can find and I want to say, it's difficult to find them.

LavaManLee

5* Hit Monkey shards/covers are out this morning. Will be interesting to see who can champ him and how that affects the Chulk meta.

BriMan2222

@Tony_Foot said:

@LavaManLee said:
5* Hit Monkey shards/covers are out this morning. Will be interesting to see who can champ him and how that affects the Chulk meta.

At the 450-470 5* champ level it will be months yet before anything changes. Myself when I pull for Monkey it will be Monkey + TBA +TBA, so what March before I can make a difference? I imagine there's lots out there in a similar position.

Yeah, I'm in a similar situation. I have Emma and she hulk champed already so I won't pull until it's arcade, riri, monkey and then I will only pull enough to get arcade champed, who is already at 8 covers, so I probably won't get hit monkey champed until it's riri, monkey, tba at the earliest.

Sekilicious

How long did it take for iHulk/Okoye to disappear when Wanda was released? I was firmly in the Polaris meta so I don’t know for sure but my memory suggests it was very quick.

BriMan2222

@Sekilicious said:
How long did it take for iHulk/Okoye to disappear when Wanda was released? I was firmly in the Polaris meta so I don’t know for sure but my memory suggests it was very quick.

A Lot of people broke hoards when wanda was released. There were a slew of lvl 500 plus wandas nearly as soon as she went into the latest legends pool. I don't think people will break hoards for hitmonkey, especially when so many people already just broke hoards for mthor and chasm.

Bad

However SW was successful because cut down the main source of the problem.
The monkey doesn't.

HoundofShadow

A lot of top players broke for Colossus/Wanda/Knull or the March/April/May release. It should be somewhere in June 2021. Weekly boosted 5* happened in April/May 2021?

Since it takes about 1 year to build up to 550 again, and they just broke board for KK/Chasm/mThor or mThor/Chasm/She-Hulk, they are going to break 550 again somewhere in August 2023 or earlier due to Shardmas.

While digging, I found some nerf Hulkoye threads. After a quick read, this nerf Chasm thread isn't much different from those nerf Hulkoye threads. Next year, we could do a meta review to see which meta is the most hated. Previously, with about 80 votes in the poll, Bishop won with about 20+ votes followed by iHulkoye with ~ 15 votes.

revskip

The funny thing about nerf threads (and this one is no different) is that in the 26 pages here, there are a handful of very vocal folks asking for a nerf over and over ad nauseam and a handful of far less vocal who are fine with things as they are who have put in their .02 cents and then left it alone. I'm not seeing much Chasm/iHulk the past two weeks because they don't do well against the boosted lists from those two weeks. I imagine we'll see more this week because the boosted list benefits Chasm. If the meta is only the meta half the month is it really untenable? Group A will surely argue that it is. Group B will likely just go on with their business. Except Hound, he's been very vocal standing up for the no nerfs crowd.

Sekilicious

I saw a lot of Chasm + iSHulk climbing to float at 5xx

ThaRoadWarrior

This boost list is actually pretty entertaining, but I haven't wandered over to PVP to see what the field looks like yet. Big Wheel + She-Hulk is a pretty good cascade team, and doesn't really require a lot of AP to big damage after a couple turns, so I expect it won't be too bad to run up against them.

Bad

@revskip said:
The funny thing about nerf threads (and this one is no different) is that in the 26 pages here, there are a handful of very vocal folks asking for a nerf over and over ad nauseam and a handful of far less vocal who are fine with things as they are who have put in their .02 cents and then left it alone. I'm not seeing much Chasm/iHulk the past two weeks because they don't do well against the boosted lists from those two weeks. I imagine we'll see more this week because the boosted list benefits Chasm. If the meta is only the meta half the month is it really untenable? Group A will surely argue that it is. Group B will likely just go on with their business. Except Hound, he's been very vocal standing up for the no nerfs crowd.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.
Personally I think this thread has served to hit monkey looking to his release, you can see how much of a 02 cents is that.
One thing is for sure, actually your post didn't apport nothing of great value.

HoundofShadow

I don't think Hit-Monkey is going to impact Chasm/iHulk a lot because he's not shutting them down passively like Wanda did to iHulk, he needs to gather 7 red aps and he's a glass cannon: hits hard but has low hp and virtually no defense, except against Supernatural affiliation. I don't think there's much difference between fielding Hit-Monkey and my counter teams in pick-2 pvps as far not putting a target on your back is concerned.

However, it's going to make dealing with them much easier. I think I can see a 40 second reduction in playtime against iHulk Team in late January 2023.

mani82

Hit monkey would atleast help people have a team which is straightforward if paired with Wanda to hit the barrage of low level chasm ihulk ;I mean the 450 to 470 leveller ones it does change things at high level pvp for people who can t try out and find puzzles like you hound .No offence but people want to keep things uncomplicated ,get 7 red AP and hit one reviver who could come under the 15 percent health insta downing

HoundofShadow

But this is Marvel Puzzle Quest..

Bad

Like I said before, to do a puzzle the fist time is challenging. To do the same puzzle a few times more is fun.
But to do it hundreds and hundreds of times more is just awful.
Let diversity come back.

GrimSkald

Let me put this in a very elementary way - this game functions best as a game of rock-paper-scissors. You have powers that are effective, then you introduce counters to those powers. For example, SW is a good counter for characters who do many hits (such as Apoc red and AoEs.) MThor is a good counter for those who rely on special tiles. Etc.

Chasm is an extremely effective counter for characters who rely on AP to fire their powers. That's almost everyone. You need some kind of extra AP generation to even make the slightest bit of headway against him, and even then you're not doing great unless your best powers are not your primary (and you're gaining primary AP,) and are particularly cheap. Have a 550 Apocalypse? Doesn't really matter - unless you can somehow scrape up 7 yellow AP and 7 Red ap (or worse, 7 yellow AP, 7 black, and a few turns for the protects to propagate,) you'll never down anything, and of course Chasm will just come back unless you take him out last, and iHulk makes the timing very hard.

Chasm is just too broad a counter. Even if they introduce a good specific counter to Chasm (someone who prevents AP drain, for example,) it doesn't matter because it doesn't effect literally the hundreds of other team combinations that people will want to bring.

Chasm's first turn stun is obnoxious (particularly since it's a good counter to characters who aren't really overpowered like BRB,) his resurrection mechanic is super annoying particularly when paired with iHulk, but it's his AP drain that makes him broken. I don't know what the Devs were thinking when they made him, really. Maybe that it wouldn't be a full 3 AP all the time? I dunno.