The ChaHulk meta

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  • allen_koholic
    allen_koholic Posts: 103 Tile Toppler

    @GrimSkald said:

    Chasm's first turn stun is obnoxious (particularly since it's a good counter to characters who aren't really overpowered like BRB,) his resurrection mechanic is super annoying particularly when paired with iHulk, but it's his AP drain that makes him broken. I don't know what the Devs were thinking when they made him, really. Maybe that it wouldn't be a full 3 AP all the time? I dunno.

    Yea. Without the targeted AP drain, he'd still be really good. But with it, there's no counter-play. I think even if you took his revive away and gave him more health, he'd still be good.

    Just change the AP drain to be 3 random colors. Or tune down his passive to create only one abyss tile per match and max at two AP drained.

  • _TrashPanda
    _TrashPanda Posts: 101 Tile Toppler

    Chasm (and his iHulk counterpart has taken over PvP) but they seem like it would be an easy character to RPS. I feel like all the RPS would need is (i) Prevents team damage & reduces match damage, (ii) Prevents AP theft from either team, (iii) Kills Regen abilities of everyone (both teams) (iv) is immune to stun, (v) Make him a big fat tank. Make them all passive abilities. By making them prevent AP theft by either team & Kills regen abilities on both sides, it would prevent people from using them with Chasm/ ihulk/ etc. & discourage people from using them all the time because they have no big nuke ability, thus increasing RPS play in SIM & PvP.

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,466 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    @_TrashPanda said:
    Chasm (and his iHulk counterpart has taken over PvP) but they seem like it would be an easy character to RPS. I feel like all the RPS would need is (i) Prevents team damage & reduces match damage, (ii) Prevents AP theft from either team, (iii) Kills Regen abilities of everyone (both teams) (iv) is immune to stun, (v) Make him a big fat tank. Make them all passive abilities. By making them prevent AP theft by either team & Kills regen abilities on both sides, it would prevent people from using them with Chasm/ ihulk/ etc. & discourage people from using them all the time because they have no big nuke ability, thus increasing RPS play in SIM & PvP.

    I know I am easily confused but I'm not sure what RPS means. I Googled it and still am not sure what it refers to in this context. Requests Per Second? Royal Photography Society? Relative Price Strength?

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards

    Rock/Paper/Scissors, alternately known as a RowShamBow

  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,466 Chairperson of the Boards

    @ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Rock/Paper/Scissors, alternately known as a RowShamBow

    Thank you! Greatly appreciated.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    I thought with the release of Hit-Monkey, this thread would be put to rest.

    Anyway, @BlackBoltRocks
    Puzzle Ops aren't really puzzle because they fall into two extremes: they are either too easy or they are too RNG-based.

    This is a definition of puzzle I agree with:

    "In a puzzle, the solver is expected to put pieces together (or take them apart) in a logical way, in order to arrive at the correct or fun solution of the puzzle."

  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,193 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    "In a puzzle, the solver is expected to put pieces together (or take them apart) in a logical way, in order to arrive at the correct or fun solution of the puzzle."

    Chasm is the exact opposite of "fun".

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    The monkey has one skill that kills zombie characters. That's all.
    In any case he counters chasm, a character who counters all characters.
    With a champed hit monkey and SW and equipping all AP boost it's possible to target them and to lose relative low health as SW and HM can provide red while chasm voids it.
    But it's possible to down chasm, Ihulk, or Shulk as it's irrelevant which character the player wanted to take out.
    Still the rock paper system doesn't apply to chasm until a character would be released blocking/compensating AP destroy, as I said many pages before.
    Chasm is in the predator triangle peak still.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Fun is subjective?

    And why are players so fixated on his ap destruction. It destroys aps in a fixed order, instead of a random order.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Chasm, for zero AP, does:

    • collective stun
    • 6 AP destroy EACH turn if the 2 characters have different colors (pretty usual)
    • negates AP matched with his tiles
    • continous healing
    • infinite revive

    And the monkey only prevents revive with a single skill.
    A character FULLY countering him should have: collective stun prevent, preventing AP destroy, compensating AP matched on void tiles, erasing web tiles, downing characters forever with a passive.
    So it can be seen how much of a no-countering-chasm characters the game has.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2022

    It has been proven multiple times in the past few boost weeks that Chasm/iHulk isn't as intimidating as they seem because a large number of them have been hiding for a long time. Even the recent boost week with Big Wheel or She-Hulk have a large number of them hiding. As a matter of fact, all the boosted characters beginning as far back as JJ boost week could beat them easily. However, in certain circle, they might remain prevalent.

    At the end of the day, it's down to players not wanting to think strategically to play against them. The above full-blown counter is a plug-and-play approach where new players could use to counter Chasm/iHulk without thinking, just like how using Polaris/R4G is as good as "turning off the brain", and this is a feedback I saw from players after using Polaris/R4G.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    The truth is that I always wonder where is that prodigious puzzle in the way on beating the chahulk team.
    Personally I think it's just a tedious process on matching tiles waiting for the time on when chasm and Ihulk have low health for to down them with AoE, or just down Ihulk 3 or 4 times for chasm non tanking anymore.
    Or just to equip all boosts and wait for a favorable board for to fire the black hole while try to never target chasm.
    Everything actually is about to play chasm's game and to have a favorable board for to finish the battle earlier.
    If it was just a puzzle to think issue the chahulk team won't be everywhere after passing a certain threshold.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,349 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't have a huge amount to say on this debate as Chasm doesn't bother me overly and I use him in SIM if I have to but I can clearly see why people are bothered by the AP destruction, random or not. If you enjoy using certain characters and Chasm makes that nearly impossible then it doesn't matter if there are workarounds. You just want to play your favourite characters and be able to fire their **** powers. It isn't even necessarily a "I only want to win mindlessly" mindset I don't think either. It is a bit like playing a game of Monopoly but another character has a Chance card that forever stops you passing Go.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    At least one or two boosted 5* each week beginning from JJ have different ways of beating Chasm/iHulk, except on his boost week. I've not seen Chasm/iHulk "dominate" pvps for a long time, despite players saying how broken he is. If he's broken, he will be dominating every single week, regardless of whoever appears in boost week. Even She-Hulk or Big Wheel who are considered mid tier characters are scaring Chasm/iHulk away in their boost weeks.

    It's only in certain circle that Chasm/iHulk appears a lot of time, and that circle is likely the ~500-550 meta chaser club.

    3-4 wins out of my 19-22 wins consists of Chasm/iHulk. The rest consists of boosted 5* and other non-boosted 5* team. We're not in a situation where every skip or match is only against Chasm/iHulk. If it is, then it's a different story. And I'm referring to pick-2 pvps. Players can still use their favourite 5* to fire powers and if they don't want to play against Chasm/iHulk, just skip them. PvEs are probably the more appropriate place for them to not care about dealing with difficult matches and fire their powers away.

    If we want to talk about shield sim, before Chasm, all I see was BRB/Kitty/Polaris or Colossus/Apocalypse/Wanda, which is about 90-95%. And these were the teams I were seeing after climbing high scores. After mThor came, she shaked things up a little, which means the above two teams had been reigning for about a year. Chasm came and She-Hulk came and we got this triple revive. In shield sim currently, there are more variety of Chasm teams that are not Chasm + iHulk&She-Hulk. And those teams are easy to beat.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    My god, stop beating a dead horse over and over again people.
    Let's wait and see if Monkey makes an impact.
    I doubt it, since he was a non-factor in his own PVP, but we'll see.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,349 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:
    My god, stop beating a dead horse over and over again people.
    Let's wait and see if Monkey makes an impact.
    I doubt it, since he was a non-factor in his own PVP, but we'll see.

    Poor Beta Ray Bill, he does deserve better.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,471 Chairperson of the Boards

    Riri and Hit Monkey are both still NEW, I’ve only seen one champed Riri in the wild so far. Way too soon to claim they have made a difference. The only difference in my experience so far has been the quality of the boost week roster and whether or not it has good options. Chasm/She-Hulk/iHulk is still all over pick-3, which is fine because it is pretty easy (for me with everyone champed, maybe not newer rosters) to build a counter team to that.

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