Gargantos Heroic Boss Event Impressions

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Comments

  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,657 Chairperson of the Boards
    Think I can give y overall thoughts on this now that I’m finished, and my alliance is almost done.

     Previously this event was way too easy. Everyone cleared it without issue the last time it was around.

    Now it was painful before they hot fixed the damage issues. After the hot fix it still was annoying but manageable.
    The side nodes in the last tiers can be nail biters if you don’t get a good board.
    I think about 75% of my alliance will finish this which is not normal.

    I think maybe a change in the future that would work better would 2 required and 1 free slot. Not everyone has a fat roster and it could alleviate some issues.
  • Heartbreaksoup
    Heartbreaksoup Posts: 356 Mover and Shaker
    There really does seem to be a bit of cognitive dissonance when members start their complaints with "I've played this game for four years and..." when they are angered by a three-day event.

    It's three days.  A regular PVE will be available this time tomorrow.  If you can't play this one at the level you wish, go read a book or something.  Normal service will be resumed.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,657 Chairperson of the Boards
    It’s not about time invested. It’s just about the imbalance compared to the previous boss events. It was clearly too hard before the hot fix.
    An unlucky cascade could wipe your team within the first four turns… in round 1.
    Paired with the neutered roster choice it was seemingly going to be overly difficult around round 6 or 7.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    We're almost done, so time for a recap
    Event was fine after the adjustment to Garg blue.
    Heroics are fine - even meta chasers should have 300+ 4s from opening all those LTs.
    And a level 300+ Agent Venom and Scorpion was all that was needed to compete.
    Smaller rosters can contribute with the loaners.

    All of the backlash could have been avoided by not springing this on the playerbase on such short notice, and explaining what Heroic means.

    After adjusting my expectations that I will never have to use a health pack on a boss event, ever, it was fine.

    Heroic Juggs next, please!
  • Double_O_Revan
    Double_O_Revan Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    Blergh said:
    @Double_O_Revan Just out of interest, would your initial reaction to the event have been more positive if it was more clearly communicated in game how the mechanics between this event and the previous run differed? 

    Say like you a got a small five node tutorial event, where you got a tiny drop of iso for participating, talking you through the limited roster, how it worked while also explaining it was going to be a puzzling/challenging event. 

    Just wondering how much of the initial reaction was people anticipating the ease of the first event but getting a spike in difficulty in the second run due to new mechanics they didn't understand.
    My initial reaction was similar to most I think. I started and it was round 2, I picked what I thought was a decent team, and I wiped in no time. Shock I would say. I guess if they warned us more in advance, and gave us a breakdown of the usable characters, I would've still been disappointed because of the limited pool, but at least we would've known something. I think a lot of people stated this should've been listed as a Heroic Event and not a boss battle. In 3 years I've played, boss battles have been pretty reasonable. Very few problems. But this came out of no where and surprised a lot of people. I'm fine with boss battles having the nodes that require specific characters, but for the whole event to require nothing but a slim few, that's annoying to say the least. I feel like this should've been it's own event. Advertised and made for the more dedicated crowd.
    DAZ0273 said:
    Hopefully you can get some 4* covers for a great 4* in Scorpion. If you are strictly casual then the 5* isn't really that important to you? It honestly is doable but you might just have to prepare to lose once in a while. I don't know how hard it will get and obviously we have another dreaded boost to the side nodes later today but the first run of this event was a joke. Something had to change. If you got 5* covers from that then really you should be looking at this as OK I got paid up front so maybe now is the time to get to work. Obviously you may not see it that way which is of course fine.
    I do have Scorpion champed. He as been my MVP. I play enough that I have at least 1 of every 5*. I have a recently champed Kitty, and if I want to I have 3 more with 13/13 covers. But I have 33 4*s left to champ. So I do play enough. And getting the new KK was going to be a nice addition to my roster. I hope I can make it.
    scottishhaig said:

    I'm not big on strategy.  SCL10 is mostly Kitty/Pol/Grocket.  I don't delve too far into the Puzzle Gauntlet - my 4* roster is just not deep enough (champed toons) and as I've noted, not big on strategy.  I have 6 champed 5* w/ two more at 12 covers.  Sadly the 5* for this event are at best 3 covers and I do not have a champed Scorpion or AV.

    That's basically me as well. I have no problem exclaiming that I am a Polaris & whoever user, be it Kitty/Grocket/BRB/Jugg and was hoping soon to be 5* KK. I only do the hard 2 Puzzle Gauntlet matches which earns me 2 guaranteed pulls for the support and I ignore the rest. I have Kitty champed, and can also champ 5* Shang Chi, Xavier, Gamora. Most of my other 5*s are 1 or 2 covers though. I'm going to finish my 4*s first.
  • scottishhaig
    scottishhaig Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2022
    Tony_Foot said:
    Bowgentle said:
    We're almost done, so time for a recap
    Event was fine after the adjustment to Garg blue.
    Heroics are fine - even meta chasers should have 300+ 4s from opening all those LTs.
    And a level 300+ Agent Venom and Scorpion was all that was needed to compete.
    Smaller rosters can contribute with the loaners.

    All of the backlash could have been avoided by not springing this on the playerbase on such short notice, and explaining what Heroic means.

    After adjusting my expectations that I will never have to use a health pack on a boss event, ever, it was fine.

    Heroic Juggs next, please!
    My scorpion is not that high but he was clearly the mvp of this event. I used two health packs the whole event and Garg got his blue off once. I disagree that the backlash will be less. If they run meet rocket and groot with heroic after so long with people using whatever meta team they have, there will be another uproar.

    I think too long has passed and as great as it was they tweaked the numbers, well you know this player base and expectations. The only heroic event that would suffice would be okoye, ihulk, kitty, Polaris, bb  ;)
    I feel the issue is the 180 degree flip.  Prior to this event players were used to a specific dynamic / play style.  Boss fights (while not a cakewalk - at least for me) could be done with most at least making progression.  Then we walked into a room naked and everyone just laughed.

    You mentioned in another post that people can't be bothered to learn new tactics.  I agree with that in part, but you also have to give people a chance to change.  It's like going from learning fractions in elementary school and then straight to AP calculus in middle school.  Most people would just throw their hands up and not bother.  I'm certainly not saying this game is as difficult as calculus, but hopefully you see the analogy.

    I would be more concerned with the newer players that have been around for only a few months.  This would have been a considerable wake up for them.  Similar to receiving horrible service at a restaurant and vowing not to go back (at least for a good while).   Hopefully, they see that this isn't an every day occurrence.

    I think a previous post I saw that suggested splitting this event into normal and heroic with awards adjusted accordingly would be a good way to go.  Or maybe have the Boss / Heroic events have SCLs like the standard scenarios.  Those that wanted the challenge could select SCL 10 and get 2 5* covers and others could select whatever they felt better fit their play style w/ awards adjusted accordingly.  It should never have to be all or nothing.

    Quick edit to add:  When I restarted this time I checked out guides and other resources to see how to best approach what toons to level and focus on.  Obviously said guides called out the best toons in their respective tiers.  Kitty, BRB, Okoye - Polaris, Medusa, Juggs - Strange, KK - etc. In not one guide did I see any indication I should be concentrating on ALL toons so why in the world would I (or anyone) consider trying to get shard, covers, etc. for GG, Yelena, Samdak or the other toons for this event?  The only exception I would have considered is Scorpion, but even he is considered less than stellar versus 10+ other 4*.  Just another perspective to offer.  I'm not saying any guide is a be all expert on the game, but something to consider.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,999 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    Here are the top 3 responses towards this event, pre-firefighting from the dev:

    1) threatening to quit the game for good
    2) threatening to stop spending money
    3) call this event p2w --> I lol'ed at this. Some 5* players are losing even when they have at least one of those 5* champed. Even if you have the money to champ all 5* (Yelena/OMD/GG), it doesn't guarantee a win. 

    Other responses:
    I can finish scl 9/10 pves; therefore, I should be able to complete this event.

    For those who love Heroic events, this is the top 1 anti-Heroic response:

    1) Why am I not allowed to use my hard-earned (either via cash or in-game rewards) characters? 


    This is what happens when players only know how to Polaris/BRB or Hulkoye for the past two years and calling other non-meta characters a 'Skip'. You throw them a challenge, take away their meta teams and you get this.

    How is the dev supposed to create challenging and unique events with these kinds of threats?
    This right here is my fear. I hate your second #1 point the most. So much entitlement.  I paid for this therefore I should be entitled to…. (Like your 550 Okoye didn’t get you your moneys worth in every other event ever). Also, a lot of these 550 meta players aren’t big spenders. Quite the opposite. Just hoard hoard hoard and unload on an anniversary vault. Which is what the devs don’t want. 

    Bad said:
    The patch is live now. Gargantos match damage downed and loaners levels increased.
    This is what happens when you think and you do constructive criticism, and treat devs with respect.
    Umm no. Please see what I quoted from Hound above. This is an outcry almost as bad as the Shardmas debacle which you LOVE to bring up often. There have been very few “constructive” or “respectful” posts from the anti camp. 


  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,193 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    Heh i thought I’m the one who always brings up the Shartgate fiasco B)

    Also to be fair to @Bad, I believe what they mean is that when we players are respectful and civil about our criticisms, the devs will respond in kind, as in how they were so quick to make amendments.

    Basically, be a nice person. And if the other party can’t reciprocate, that’s an issue with them, not you.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:
    Umm no. Please see what I quoted from Hound above. This is an outcry almost as bad as the Shardmas debacle which you LOVE to bring up often. There have been very few “constructive” or “respectful” posts from the anti camp. 
    Look that I talk a lot about everything, but shardmas debacle precisely it's something I never talk as it didn't affected me. 
    And read at the first pages. Not really the most respectful comments, or something expressed towards getting valuable feedback as most comments now.
    To communicate them the way to fight this event (boosting the loaners) was something valuable,and look at the coincidence, I think it was me the one who did. So I was remarking that positive attitude.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Come on.
    The outrage posts were mostly from people with less than 10 posts, many registered to just post how terrible it is.
    Disregard those, and you have a much more sensible reaction from most people.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes Feedback is appreciated and important.
    I just wanted to avoid the usual white Knights running with like two posters to say "ALL PEOPLE HATE THE DEVS! You're all so mean, you don't deserve interactions with the devs!"

    Reasonably worded feedback is always good.
  • nixed
    nixed Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
    TheRiddler said:
    I can speak on this event from two perspectives.
    I have an account where I have everybody rostered, nearly all 4s champed and a solid group of champ 5s.
    I've been using a nearly champed Yelena, Scorpion and Agent Venom. No problems at all. Haven't died once. Looking through the thread it seems alot of people are using Scorpion and Agent Venom.
    My daughter has an account as well. And she doesn't have any of the 5s or 4s. It sucks. If the nodes get progressively harder (she is seeing +300 enemies right now) with just champ 3s and 2s its gonna suck pretty bad.
    I guess that is the cost of not having one of the 6 out of 196 characters in 4/5 tier that they allowed for this event.
    I'm not gonna hit progression because my alliance which always hits progression has pretty much decided to sit this out. The same for her alliance.
    seems to be the consensus: if you're a 2-3 year+ player with all 4's champed, you can do this event without too much hassle. If you aren't, the devs are basically telling you this event isn't for you.

    And to me as someone who is a 300 day player but is putting in TONS of work every single day, that feels really, really, really bad.
  • revskip
    revskip Posts: 1,025 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daniel2121 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    It's not theory. I've already posted videos of me clearing Gargantos with 3* Daken/Bullseye. Veteran players who have problem with 3* Daken don't know the word "strategy". Theoretically speaking, 3* Daken looks like a terrible choice. In practice, 3* Daken is the MVP for 3* players. They just need to strategise.
    I told you my 3* Daken is currently not champed, but I doubt that it would make a difference. Gargantos counters Daken + Rag very solidly for the reasons I've said.

    3* Bullseye's purple is just way too expensive to rely on it. By the time I am able to use it, I got my team down by one member.

    I just gave up already on this event since I inevitably lose against Gargantos no matter what team I use. The best synergy 3* DA guys have to offer is already shut down by the one-eyed octopus. And everything else is just... garbage.
    The side nodes are definitely giving my lower level account some pause now but I just beat Gargantos on my main account in round 8 with just the loaners.  Is it quick, nope.  But still a hell of lot faster for me than that first run of civil war when I took a 1 purple cover Howard the Duck and beat IM in round 8 with just match damage.  That one was rough!

    The side nodes are definitely at a point where you'll need boosts and some luck.  But the boss node is totally doable.  
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,354 Chairperson of the Boards
    nixed said:
    TheRiddler said:
    I can speak on this event from two perspectives.
    I have an account where I have everybody rostered, nearly all 4s champed and a solid group of champ 5s.
    I've been using a nearly champed Yelena, Scorpion and Agent Venom. No problems at all. Haven't died once. Looking through the thread it seems alot of people are using Scorpion and Agent Venom.
    My daughter has an account as well. And she doesn't have any of the 5s or 4s. It sucks. If the nodes get progressively harder (she is seeing +300 enemies right now) with just champ 3s and 2s its gonna suck pretty bad.
    I guess that is the cost of not having one of the 6 out of 196 characters in 4/5 tier that they allowed for this event.
    I'm not gonna hit progression because my alliance which always hits progression has pretty much decided to sit this out. The same for her alliance.
    seems to be the consensus: if you're a 2-3 year+ player with all 4's champed, you can do this event without too much hassle. If you aren't, the devs are basically telling you this event isn't for you.

    And to me as someone who is a 300 day player but is putting in TONS of work every single day, that feels really, really, really bad.
    MPQ is a marathon not a sprint. Nothing has changed. There have been far more boss type events in the past than this one that have been difficult for newer players, this one has loaners! Why should a 300 day player be landing 2 5*covers anyway? 
  • nixed
    nixed Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2022
    DAZ0273 said:
    nixed said:
    TheRiddler said:
    I can speak on this event from two perspectives.
    I have an account where I have everybody rostered, nearly all 4s champed and a solid group of champ 5s.
    I've been using a nearly champed Yelena, Scorpion and Agent Venom. No problems at all. Haven't died once. Looking through the thread it seems alot of people are using Scorpion and Agent Venom.
    My daughter has an account as well. And she doesn't have any of the 5s or 4s. It sucks. If the nodes get progressively harder (she is seeing +300 enemies right now) with just champ 3s and 2s its gonna suck pretty bad.
    I guess that is the cost of not having one of the 6 out of 196 characters in 4/5 tier that they allowed for this event.
    I'm not gonna hit progression because my alliance which always hits progression has pretty much decided to sit this out. The same for her alliance.
    seems to be the consensus: if you're a 2-3 year+ player with all 4's champed, you can do this event without too much hassle. If you aren't, the devs are basically telling you this event isn't for you.

    And to me as someone who is a 300 day player but is putting in TONS of work every single day, that feels really, really, really bad.
    MPQ is a marathon not a sprint. Nothing has changed. There have been far more boss type events in the past than this one that have been difficult for newer players, this one has loaners! Why should a 300 day player be landing 2 5*covers anyway? 
    I understand that. I generally agree with it. And that's almost exactly confirming what my point was: If you're not already long-term player, this event is not for you. 

    But it doesn't make *this event* feel any less bad for me, as someone with a limited roster who is trying to grind out as much as possible every day and contribute to my alliance. If i get a lucky board with Loaners and boosts I can beat gargantos; If i get an unlucky board I get wiped in one turn. 

    Maybe if it wasn't an Alliance-based boss event I wouldn't care so much. I'd say "oh well guess this is out of reach for me," and continue about my day, probably playing much less over this weekend. 

    I am not trying to be dramatic or threatening or anything. I'm simply stating a fact that this has made me definitely question the direction of the game going forward and how much I should spend caring/paying money/playing from here on. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,354 Chairperson of the Boards
    nixed said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    nixed said:
    TheRiddler said:
    I can speak on this event from two perspectives.
    I have an account where I have everybody rostered, nearly all 4s champed and a solid group of champ 5s.
    I've been using a nearly champed Yelena, Scorpion and Agent Venom. No problems at all. Haven't died once. Looking through the thread it seems alot of people are using Scorpion and Agent Venom.
    My daughter has an account as well. And she doesn't have any of the 5s or 4s. It sucks. If the nodes get progressively harder (she is seeing +300 enemies right now) with just champ 3s and 2s its gonna suck pretty bad.
    I guess that is the cost of not having one of the 6 out of 196 characters in 4/5 tier that they allowed for this event.
    I'm not gonna hit progression because my alliance which always hits progression has pretty much decided to sit this out. The same for her alliance.
    seems to be the consensus: if you're a 2-3 year+ player with all 4's champed, you can do this event without too much hassle. If you aren't, the devs are basically telling you this event isn't for you.

    And to me as someone who is a 300 day player but is putting in TONS of work every single day, that feels really, really, really bad.
    MPQ is a marathon not a sprint. Nothing has changed. There have been far more boss type events in the past than this one that have been difficult for newer players, this one has loaners! Why should a 300 day player be landing 2 5*covers anyway? 
    I understand that. I generally agree with it. And that's almost exactly confirming what my point was: If you're not already long-term player, this event is not for you. 

    But it doesn't make *this event* feel any less bad for me, as someone with a limited roster who is trying to grind out as much as possible every day and contribute to my alliance. If i get a lucky board with Loaners and boosts I can beat gargantos; If i get an unlucky board I get wiped in one turn. 

    Maybe if it wasn't an Alliance-based boss event I wouldn't care so much. I'd say "oh well guess this is out of reach for me," and continue about my day, probably playing much less over this weekend. 

    I am not trying to be dramatic or threatening or anything. I'm simply stating a fact that this has made me definitely question the direction of the game going forward and how much I should spend caring/paying money/playing from here on. 
    That is fair enough and hey I do understand. The Devs haven't said this is the way all things will be moving forward. Hang on in there and hopefully future Alliance stuff will be more palatable. We need you guys as much as we need 4 year + version and your views are definitely welcome, Especially when conveyed in the very reasonable way you have done so. If I could send you some team ups to help I would! 😃
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2022
    nixed said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    nixed said:
    TheRiddler said:
    I can speak on this event from two perspectives.
    I have an account where I have everybody rostered, nearly all 4s champed and a solid group of champ 5s.
    I've been using a nearly champed Yelena, Scorpion and Agent Venom. No problems at all. Haven't died once. Looking through the thread it seems alot of people are using Scorpion and Agent Venom.
    My daughter has an account as well. And she doesn't have any of the 5s or 4s. It sucks. If the nodes get progressively harder (she is seeing +300 enemies right now) with just champ 3s and 2s its gonna suck pretty bad.
    I guess that is the cost of not having one of the 6 out of 196 characters in 4/5 tier that they allowed for this event.
    I'm not gonna hit progression because my alliance which always hits progression has pretty much decided to sit this out. The same for her alliance.
    seems to be the consensus: if you're a 2-3 year+ player with all 4's champed, you can do this event without too much hassle. If you aren't, the devs are basically telling you this event isn't for you.

    And to me as someone who is a 300 day player but is putting in TONS of work every single day, that feels really, really, really bad.
    MPQ is a marathon not a sprint. Nothing has changed. There have been far more boss type events in the past than this one that have been difficult for newer players, this one has loaners! Why should a 300 day player be landing 2 5*covers anyway? 
    I understand that. I generally agree with it. And that's almost exactly confirming what my point was: If you're not already long-term player, this event is not for you. 

    But it doesn't make *this event* feel any less bad for me, as someone with a limited roster who is trying to grind out as much as possible every day and contribute to my alliance. If i get a lucky board with Loaners and boosts I can beat gargantos; If i get an unlucky board I get wiped in one turn. 

    Maybe if it wasn't an Alliance-based boss event I wouldn't care so much. I'd say "oh well guess this is out of reach for me," and continue about my day, probably playing much less over this weekend. 

    I am not trying to be dramatic or threatening or anything. I'm simply stating a fact that this has made me definitely question the direction of the game going forward and how much I should spend caring/paying money/playing from here on. 
    So it's not -- at all -- that this  event is not for you, but rather that you'll likely not be able to complete it for all the prizes. But there are a TON of prizes any player can win just using the loaners. I remember playing The Gauntlet when I was still a 2* player and that was an exercise in brutal evisceration.

    Long-term vets of this game know your frustration, but it's an inherent part of any progressive-power game. Any D&D/RPG gamer knows that you don't go after Demogorgon with a team of level-6 players. You might get 1/10 of the way into his lair, collecting loot and XP, but it's not going much further than that.

    And, closer to home, I'm guessing you're not playing CL10 PvE -- but that you're OK with not getting those prizes. Think of this boss event as CL6-10 compressed into one event. Rounds 1-5 or so you'll do great. But Round 7-8, where you'll be getting 4* and 5* covers as rewards, are not yet within your reach. That is perfectly normal.

    Check back with us at day 1,300 and let's see how you're doing in these events then.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tony_Foot said:
    As I’ve said somewhere on this forum, I’ve been seriously impressed how some of my alliance have done with no 5* champs and very very baby four stars. They requested nuke team ups and played smarter. Most of them have got to 800k currently.
    This was an event about interest and determination.
    There was a 5* with 9 covers (being good or not doesn't change that fact).
    If I was a new player I'm totally sure I'd had used that tool to make my way. Taking samurai, venom, and any other else I'd had fought my way, as this was the first boss battle offering such loaners.
    And, as I proved, until round 6 it could be done.
    Look if I'd could have enjoyed this event being a new player in the fact that actually I've fought with the loaners in order to check it, increasing the difficulty of a battle that I have won before hand with my roster.

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