Gargantos Heroic Boss Event Impressions

Bad

Vhailorx said:

Nice video, though I think you got a bit lucky with the board. I imagine the loaner could win, especially with good supports, but the win rate would be quite low, which is bad alliance scoring. 

In practice, I think most rosters with filled out 3* rosters  should be able to handle the boss fights with a little luck/skill and boosts. The real problem for them will be the side nodes, which are up over level 400 by Sunday and can pose a real challenge to the wimpy 2*/3* DA lineup.

To be honest, I've played a bit more with that team and the win ratio is about 60%, but even when I lost I could score more than the 70% of the points he gives on round 8, and only losing the health pack for my bullseye.
On the side nodes the loaners could help, specially as a meat shield, and the speed needed to beat them obviously depends on the third character you use. There are no miracles, a good champed 4* like scorpion or agent venom effectively will speed up the process.
Still if they don't escalate as they will do on 3 hours I think it's quite doable.

But the important thing from my pov is that any type of roster had it's chance on this event.

jredd

i have yelena, daken and goblin champed so i just rode them the whole way. i could see how it'd be frustrating though. not related to this event specifically, but this game was stale as you know what. at least things are happening to change it up, even if they are not executed ideally. 

PS: it was pretty cool that they adjusted things mid event though. the new guys are already coming up milhouse in my books.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

It doesn't solve the problem of:

PvE/Boss events are stale and need a shakeup.

This is the shakeup players in the for-camp are looking at.

I hope the dev implement Heroic in some of the regular pve because T1-T10 placements in scl 10 definitely need some shakeup.

How does it not solve that problem?  I don't understand mindsets like yours.  

You've asking the devs to change the game so that you can get more of a challenge and use more of your roster because you say "the events are stale". You realize that you could have, at any point in time, limited yourself to using only this subset or any other subset of characters to use more of your characters and give yourself more of a challenge then using metas.  So what have you done for every boss event prior to this? Used your metas to fly through the event, and then come to the forum to complain that the events are not letting you use more of your roster or providing more of a challenge?

You don't want to use more of your roster just because you are interested in using more of your roster. Of course the ability to use more of your roster already exists by simply selecting DIFFERENT CHARACTERS of your own free will.  Especially on boss events, there is absolutely no drawback to using as much of your "unused" roster as you fancy because you are literally competing with no one else.  So how did this heroic style remove any "stale"-ness to a boss event that you did not already have the ability to do yourself?

But the last line of your comment says it all.

You want your approach to the game, champing each character regardless of their utility level in PVE or PVP strategy, to reward you more than those who have taken competitive approaches to the game that you have decided not to take.

And it's the same conversation that was had over in the boosted 5* PVP thread.  You love the boost because it gives you "more variety".  Of course you could have been using your own selection of characters all along.  But you don't just want to use your unused characters. The boost allows you to use those unused characters, elevated to ridiculous levels, to trivially defeat even meta unboosted teams with a 120+ level advantage.  If you wanted to use more of your roster but still have a challenge, I suggested boosted 5* levels affect MMR.  Of course the boost levels would still allow you to have 20+ levels advantage on unboosted 550s.  But you and others were not interested in the idea of being put in 550 MMR if you field a team of boosted 5* above 550... Because then you lose the ability to stomp on other players with a massive advantage that only rewards players like you who have had not only made the decision to champ every character, but have had the resources, time, and years of keeping up with the game since the early stages of 5* introduction to be able to do so.

There is no reason why milestones cannot address the problem you have invented of needing more challenge and more use of your many champs on your roster not just by selecting different characters outside the meta of your own accord, but because you need the devs to either force or incentivize you to.

If the devs really looked at the milestone idea, they could potentially introduce rewards for the extra "heroic" challenges on each event that rival top placement rewards.  So then, you could have players motivated by speed for placement rewards, and players motivated by milestone challenges to earn similar level rewards.  Naturally, most players would not realistically be in the running to earn heroic challenge rewards while keeping themselves in position for t10 placement.

The only thing a milestone based solution doesn't do is force other players to have every single character built to a usable level or suffer the consequences.  So of course it doesn't fit the mindset of "I want the devs to change the game to reward my specific style of play and punish players who have different playstyles that I don't like and haven't played as long as I have"

Pwuz_

One of the other factors that seem to be ignored here is that the Old Heroic events were Not based on a particular Affiliation like Dark Avengers, X-men, whatever.  They were a seemingly random selection of characters (at least 2 of which were the rewards from the prior event), and in most cases had some variety in terms of their active colors.

I do remember the complaints in one Heroic Event that one color was a Passive not an Active ability; but for the life of me I can’t recall what specific event nor which characters were permitted.

These types of extreme roster restrictions would be a lot more fun if they were Balance of Power style in that the 1*, 2*, & 3* characters had larger boosts so a mix of different tiered characters would all be viable.

I did also really like the idea Theghouse floated of OPTIONAL bonus Quests to encourage us to naturally play towards these types of challenges.

It’s been AGES since the Quest Tab had anything besides the Milestones & Daily Quests.

Just something like “Beat Gargantos using a team of ONLY Dark Avengers (X) Times” with like 8 versions and increased rewards would effectively cause a lot of us to choose to play that way.  At that point, just make one Required character any Dark Avenger.  Nice and easy.  No Muss, No Fuss.

HoundofShadow

@Theghouse regarding 5* boost in pvp, you remembered the wrong person. I was actually theorising about removing boost because I believe that there are more variety in the game, compared to 1 year ago. I also suggested rotating 4 5* boost, 2 5* boost and zero 5* boost. As for putting myself into 550 mmr, I've no problem with that because I do play against 550 roster boostered to 672, and mmr throws organic 550 roster against me as well for some reasons, and I do play against them if they are worth the points.

As for Heroic, you got it wrong. Back then, when players were suggesting heroic or restrictive characters usage due to how those characters were left untouched, I countered them by saying, if a player wants to use a certain (slow) character, they would use it voluntarily right now and they don't need to wait for the dev to force them to use it.  Come to think of it, whatever you said, mostly, is what I replied to them.

What I've done is actually bringing up feedbacks I've seen frequently in the forum. Heroics and character restrictions are something many players wanted due to how stale gameplay are. It's true that gameplay is quite stale. Obviously, and maybe unfortunately, this request is significant enough for the dev to bring it back. Optimistically speaking, the benefit of such limitation is that it fosters or encourages more creativity compared to the almost open concept that we have in your standardised pve.  

That's the thing about feedbacks. It can never make all players happy. There will be players who hate/dislike whatever the other camp suggests. At the end of the day, the dev has to weigh the pros and cons of each feedback, and decide what to do next. With each subsequent rollout, the dev will make changes and refine the events as time goes by. The dev has already made promises to actualise those feedbacks into this game.

As for milestone rewards, they've said they are working on something already and I think it's similar to what you suggested.

Lastly, about shaking up scl 10 T1-10 placements, I'm sure all these expert players are bored of zero competition and bored of playing musical chairs, and they'll definitely welcome challenges from 4* and other baby champed 5* players. I'm confident that they'll agree with my suggestion to throw in Heroic to regular pves. 

Theghouse

Hound, that's all great extra information. I'm really interested in your answers to my questions though which were absent from your reply.

1. So what have you done for every boss event prior to this? Used your metas to fly through the event, and then come to the forum to complain that the events are not letting you use more of your roster or providing more of a challenge?

2. how did this heroic style remove any "stale"-ness to a boss event that you did not already have the ability to do yourself?

And a multipart question that was not explicitly asked but is certainly at the heart of my posts: 

If this event had no heroic restrictions, just dark avengers as the required characters for the side nodes and the same boost list:
3A) would you have used the same teams you used on the side nodes, or would you have mixed in other characters?
3B) would you have used the same teams you used against the boss node (which has no required), or would you have mixed in other characters?
3C) if there were event milestones which rewarded using the boosted characters as much as possible, how would that change your answers to 3A and 3B?

LavaManLee

HoundofShadow said:

Lastly, about shaking up scl 10 T1-10 placements, I'm sure all these expert players are bored of zero competition and bored of playing musical chairs, and they'll definitely welcome challenges from 4* and other baby champed 5* players. I'm confident that they'll agree with my suggestion to throw in Heroic to regular pves. 

I 100% disagree with this.  I am not one of the SCL 10 T1-10 players (usually T50-100) but why would those players currently placing T1-10 want others to be possibly be there with them?  That makes zero sense.  Who says they are bored?  Just because you think so doesn't mean that they are bored.  Why on earth would they NOT want their current rewards?  Honestly makes no sense.

Neuromancer

I have to say that I enjoyed this challenge, but yes, it was like being woken up with a bucket of water. Dark Avengers cold water. Our very casual (alliance-events-only) alliance has nearly all hit personal progression. It was a struggle, but I feel like it was balanced. I like the concept of team affiliation restrictions as Gargantos/Shuma-Gorath picks on a specific target. I agree they could improve event implementation. I feel like they needed to host two simultaneous events, and each player could choose a single one to join: normal, with full roster access and lesser rewards, or the more challenging (Dark Avengers) for these improved rewards.

HoundofShadow

1) For the last few boss events, I flew through all of them with my Thanos/Thor and Shang Chi. But there's an important point you need to know: I've already set certain goals for each event type in the game for myself, namely:

Pve and boss event: speed
Pvp: speed to 1200 mostly. Pick-3 pvp will be more on trying different teams in the beginning if I have the time.
Shield sim: trying different teams.
Shield training: find best synergy for that new 4*.

2) I'm not complaining that the boss event is stale. I agreed that it is kind of stale and I also acknowledge the fact that there are players out there who want the dev to shake things up.

Actually, the general complain is that MPQ gameplay, overall, is stale. Boss event is a subset of MPQ and it just so happen that the dev decided to roll out Heroic into boss event. Even if the dev continues to roll out boring boss events, I'm fine with it because I already have shield sim to use different teams. However, another camp of players could find it boring and would feedback to the dev. 

2) The opposite of stale is fresh. As I've mentioned, limitations/constraints help to encourage creativity. It makes you do things in ways that you'd normally never thought of, and from there, you could gain new insights and experiences. It freshens things up. I think some players did learn something new that they wouldn't have without such limitations imposed on them. I guess the difference between putting the limitations yourself and the dev doing it is probably because one is imaginary and another is real. Another benefit is that it actually generates tons of discussions. The first run discussiom was actually pretty much non-existent, gameplay wise.


3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

DAZ0273

My Alliance will doubtfully complete Round 7 of this and that is OK. We will grow. We  did before and we will do so again. Congrats to those who make  it to the end and for the rest of us let us rise up beyond MPQ flicked too hard!

WilliamK1983

WilliamK1983 said:

Not a fan of this 💩

I'm a solo player, no alliance members to speak of.  I don't count my irl friend who is the only other member because he hasn't played in like 11 months.  I still hit the usual thresholds I always do but this go round was a bit more of a challenge.  It was a drain on resources, mainly boosts and health packs, since I ran the same 3 characters the entire time(Scorpion, Samurai loaner, and Agent Venom).  I have all the characters rostered(all 4*s champed, 2* & 3* farming so the levels there vary) but my 5*s required for this event are single covers.  I still wouldn't say I enjoyed this event but my original assessment has become slightly more positive.  I like a challenge from mpq, even if I took the easy road here by just using more resources to continually run my best 2 out there.  Decent event overall, but the Dark Avengers as a group are the bottom of the barrel compared to the other groups(x-men, avengers, etc).  

Bad

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.
3. No, I'm not a criminal for to desire these things. It's up to the devs to ensure that all players could enjoy the experience. I'm glad if more players than before get more interested and play more (on my alliance almost all members hit 900k points for the first time).
4. This is a gacha game. Everyone should use the resources as they consider it the better. But all gacha games benefits collector players. And this event would be the expected behavior in a standard gacha game.

Alfje17

My Goblin/Old Man Daken/Agent Venom team hasn't really had too much trouble with this event, but the junior members of my alliance are struggling. On the other hand we're all getting at least 1 KK cover, so I'm not really complaining.

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Only 6 in my alliance played past the first round . Still all 6 got personal progress and we made it to round 7 with the battles being easily beaten ( except you Iron Spider). I did miss a cover which would give me an extra LT for tomorrow but that’s an extremely minor inconvenience 

Daniel2121

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

HoundofShadow

Here's an idea for the list of future useable characters in Heroic events, for Halloween maybe:

1*: Yelena, Hawkeye, Venom
2*: Bagman, Bullseye, Hawkeye
3*: Angel, Elektra, Psylocke, Vision
4*: Bishop, Emma, Black Knight, Talos, Mysterio, Sam Wilson
5*: Kingpin, Wasp, Bruce Banner, Magneto, Ultron

Gracktbnarkt

In retrospect now that it is wrapping up I would call it a dull slog. I had a deep enough roster that I had issues with neither the nodes or the boss. But the gameplay was just flat with the given rosters. And using virtually the same roster on all side nodes and the boss reinforced that. 
Just my thoughts…

Tarelgeth

Gracktbnarkt said:

In retrospect now that it is wrapping up I would call it a dull slog. I had a deep enough roster that I had issues with neither the nodes or the boss. But the gameplay was just flat with the given rosters. And using virtually the same roster on all side nodes and the boss reinforced that. 
Just my thoughts…

Exactly.  It wasn't challenging.  It was just .. bland.  There was *less* strategy than the average boss event because the same one team just did everything on all nodes instead of having different required characters in the minion nodes.  There was nothing to do or work out.  Having so narrow of a roster didn't make me "experiment with characters I would normally never use".  It just made me feel like neither those characters nor the rest of my roster mattered because wins and losses weren't up to character choices.

HoundofShadow

LavaManLee said:

I 100% disagree with this.  I am not one of the SCL 10 T1-10 players (usually T50-100) but why would those players currently placing T1-10 want others to be possibly be there with them?  That makes zero sense.  Who says they are bored?  Just because you think so doesn't mean that they are bored.  Why on earth would they NOT want their current rewards?  Honestly makes no sense.

I'm surprised T50-T100 players will disagree with this even when it means you could get higher placements. Those top players look at the game differently from normal players, and I strongly believe that they will be happy with this change/challenge. Years of Hulkoyes have already numbed their minds and Heroic will only serve to excite their minds, especially when the stakes are high.
I'm not saying make it for all pves, but doing it once or twice a month is fine. 

primetime21

jredd said:

i have yelena, daken and goblin champed so i just rode them the whole way.

I have the same and I found this event easy.  I found Gargantos simple; most times I killed him before he went invisible, and if not I killed him as soon as he came back.  I never came close to even losing one character in any of the battles.