Gargantos Heroic Boss Event Impressions

DevpoolMPQ_BCS

Tiger_Wong said:

I wish the unusable characters were greyed out. 

But other than that, this is fun. 5+ Yelena and Saumrai Dak are doing work. The DA don’t have a lot of synergy but I can make it work. 

Sorry about that bug - very annoying. We definitely tried out a few things off the beaten path with this one and this ended up being something we grudgingly ran with. Thanks for dealing with it!

kk3thess

After the changes, this event was beatable and bearable. It wasn't fun to play with the same combination of characters throughout the entire event (Agent Venom, Scorpion, and Green Goblin for me. Didn't play with any other character or combination at any moment), but it got me through the challenge with almost no losses. 

If I could suggest one change, it would be to give the player a chance to choose one character from each tier to add to the required character. This would expand the possibilities, test the players knowledge about the synergy between characters, and it would still be challenging. At least that's what I think.

Daredevil217

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

HOEPPI

First of all: excuse my broken English. I'm german.

I play in an alliance with a lot of newbies. Usually the higher leveled members could do their job and were happy to share the profit with the latest players.

This time I went into the event and got my *ss beat in the first round. This was corrected by the developers soon. Thanks for that.

After this change I was able to win sometimes 'til the sixth round. At this point I had to use 50 (!) health packs. This was too annoying, so I stopped playing this event. Just as every member of my alliance did.

The free tokens are not really satisfying, if you hit three 1*.

I play this game since four years (with a little break), spent a lot of money (sure, my problem), but I don't want to play a game, that forces my to play with characters, that even I would have build them, were out auf chance to run through this event without trouble.

Do this again, but don't call it "Alliance Event". This was a slap in the face of the most players.

spatenfloot

DevpoolMPQ_BCS said:

Tiger_Wong said:

I wish the unusable characters were greyed out. 

But other than that, this is fun. 5+ Yelena and Saumrai Dak are doing work. The DA don’t have a lot of synergy but I can make it work. 

Sorry about that bug - very annoying. We definitely tried out a few things off the beaten path with this one and this ended up being something we grudgingly ran with. Thanks for dealing with it!

any thoughts on a progressive wave event where each character used would be locked out for a certain amount of time? as it got harder, people would have to choose whether to use their best character or save them for a later fight.

LavaManLee

HOEPPI said:

Do this again, but don't call it "Alliance Event". This was a slap in the face of the most players.

I said this in one of my earlier posts.  The problem wasn't that we were restricted to DA.  The problem was that they ran it as an Alliance Event.  If it was a one-off "Heroic" individual event, it really wouldn't have mattered.  But calling it an Alliance Event was (IMHO) the wrong thing to do without any pre-communication.

Tarelgeth

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

I would be thrilled to see creative restrictions like that.  "No characters with Red as one of their colors" or something would be fantastic and really make you try to come up with a new combo.

"Only use these characters" doesn't make you try to come up with anything, so this event felt very anti-puzzly to me.  It was the opposite of a team-building challenge.

Daredevil217

It’s still a restriction.  They’d still be saying “use only these characters over here and not these ones here”.  To me it’s the same thing. Just this one was way more challenging of a restriction over just “no red” as you’d still have access to full blown meta teams like Polaris/Bill, Profslaught, Steel Witch, plus whatever third you wanted to bring to amplify them (not that you’d even need to bring a third character with those teams). Easy pickings. 

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Daredevil217 said:

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

Wasn’t heroclix a game you played with tiny dolls ?  I think we saw them recently at a comic convention, I think it was 20 years ago before phones and apps they were a game . 

Daredevil217

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

Daredevil217 said:

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

Wasn’t heroclix a game you played with tiny dolls ?  I think we saw them recently at a comic convention, I think it was 20 years ago before phones and apps they were a game . 

Yeah. They’re these mini figures like the size of chess pieces but the bases have dials that have stats on them. You turn the dial when you are dealt damage (or heal) and the stats change with each click (until KOed). I was super into it and pretty good at it. I moved a lot and played in tourneys every place I went. Even in Canada I found a local comic store I played at regularly. However I stopped playing when I moved to a city in the middle of nowhere for work. Lived there for 6 years and it was just too long away from the game to get back in (I’d want to spend a small fortune buying all the cool pieces I missed and I know the rules have undergone several changes). The pandemic also hurt the game im sure, but from what I understand it’s still going. 

Sorry to delve off topic! My main point was that I like when restrictions are imposed on me and I’m “forced” to work within a different set of parameters, rather than imposing arbitrary restrictions on myself. 

Vhailorx

Daredevil217 said:

TheEyeDoctorsWife said:

Daredevil217 said:

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

Wasn’t heroclix a game you played with tiny dolls ?  I think we saw them recently at a comic convention, I think it was 20 years ago before phones and apps they were a game . 

Yeah. They’re these mini figures like the size of chess pieces but the bases have dials that have stats on them. You turn the dial when you are dealt damage (or heal) and the stats change with each click (until KOed). I was super into it and pretty good at it. I moved a lot and played in tourneys every place I went. Even in Canada I found a local comic store I played at regularly. However I stopped playing when I moved to a city in the middle of nowhere for work. Lived there for 6 years and it was just too long away from the game to get back in (I’d want to spend a small fortune buying all the cool pieces I missed and I know the rules have undergone several changes). The pandemic also hurt the game im sure, but from what I understand it’s still going. 

Sorry to delve off topic! My main point was that I like when restrictions are imposed on me and I’m “forced” to work within a different set of parameters, rather than imposing arbitrary restrictions on myself. 

1000 curses on heroclix for what they did to BattleTech!

Wait, was the topic again?

TheEyeDoctorsWife

Back to topic. One of my alliance members didn’t even bother to play although in every other PvE or PvP he does place high.  He has 5 meta, BRB, Kitty, Apoc, Shang and Polaris and nothing else over 350 level. So the new format in alliance events gave him a 4 day vacation from the game . He doesn’t mind because the rewards contained none of the 5 meta you only need to win in the game .

dianetics

Sounds like a **** strategy for the long term.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is a recipe for pain.
When a hard counter to brb Polaris comes he will probably be feeling it

Vhailorx

dianetics said:

Sounds like a **** strategy for the long term.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is a recipe for pain.
When a hard counter to brb Polaris comes he will probably be feeling it

depends entirely on what the alternatives are.  If one doesn't play enough to keep pace with the release schedule, than picking and choosing meta 5*s to chase is almost certainly going to produce the strongest possible roster (just in terms of being able to do everything the game asks players to do).  As between every 5* at 6-8 covers, and having BRB/kitty/apoc/SC champed with everyone else at 3-5 covers, I will the latter.

But demi, and now BCS, have consistently tried to incentivize a 'collect 'em all' approach; I expect they will continue to reward players who can do so.

Theghouse

Daredevil217 said:

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

You talk about handicapping yourself in console games, as opposed to choosing a hard mode.  The hard mode of the game probably increases the power level of the opponents, and might decrease the effectiveness of players armor or weapons, restrict access to certain healing items, reduce the amount of loot drops, etc.  

What would your impression of hard mode be if you progressed through the campaign as normal, picking up all the healing items and weapons dropped in standard gameplay, only for the game to gray out those items as "not available"?  By the end of the game, you would have an entire inventory of items the game has told you you cannot use to create a poorly executed "higher difficulty level".  The only difference between playing the game and self-restricting yourself to only the beginner items, and the hard mode that blocked all items except beginner items, was who decided to impose the restrictions.  

The PVPs you mentioned, and even your hero clix example, are not the same as playing through content with artificial difficulty added through restrictions.  All those examples are about creating teams which meet certain restrictions, to field against other teams in built in the same way.  Evergreen also has altered board conditions relevant to the team selection criteria.

In fact, I think Evergreen would be even more fun if it didn't restrict the roster to accomplish the goal. I think it would be more interesting if all characters were allowed, but non-green matches and powers did no damage.  I think Shang Chi is one of the most fun characters in the entire game, and I think it would be very entertaining to see if making 0 damage red and purple matches to build up combo points, and setting up big green matches with his purple and red powers, could actually be a viable strategy.

Funny that you didn't mention Balance of Power, which allows players to try lots of different teams that might not be competitive outside of that event, including mixing up 3*, 4*, and 5*, and it does so without forcing characters restrictions or required combinations...

Your comments leave me wondering if you really can't see the difference between the team building challenge and gameplay variety in an event like Evergreen and a boss event with heroic roster restrictions, or if you're just arguing for this sake:

LavaManLee said:

It is clear there are a subset of forum posters who get smug satisfaction when other players can't use their preferred team (be it Grocket/Polares/Kitty or Hulkoye or something else).  This fascination is completely over my head.

Bad

Wow! SC dealing 0 damage on evergreen. 
Now that's a bizarre idea for sure!
How many people would play a SC acting this way?
I wonder what's the difference between restricting a character and totally nerfing him for a single event.
It should be that some people having bizarre fascination for not restricting are feeling better making a character useless (and if it's a character they don't use, a lot better  ).

Daredevil217

Theghouse said:

Daredevil217 said:

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

You talk about handicapping yourself in console games, as opposed to choosing a hard mode.  The hard mode of the game probably increases the power level of the opponents, and might decrease the effectiveness of players armor or weapons, restrict access to certain healing items, reduce the amount of loot drops, etc.  

What would your impression of hard mode be if you progressed through the campaign as normal, picking up all the healing items and weapons dropped in standard gameplay, only for the game to gray out those items as "not available"?  By the end of the game, you would have an entire inventory of items the game has told you you cannot use to create a poorly executed "higher difficulty level".  The only difference between playing the game and self-restricting yourself to only the beginner items, and the hard mode that blocked all items except beginner items, was who decided to impose the restrictions.  

The PVPs you mentioned, and even your hero clix example, are not the same as playing through content with artificial difficulty added through restrictions.  All those examples are about creating teams which meet certain restrictions, to field against other teams in built in the same way.  Evergreen also has altered board conditions relevant to the team selection criteria.

In fact, I think Evergreen would be even more fun if it didn't restrict the roster to accomplish the goal. I think it would be more interesting if all characters were allowed, but non-green matches and powers did no damage.  I think Shang Chi is one of the most fun characters in the entire game, and I think it would be very entertaining to see if making 0 damage red and purple matches to build up combo points, and setting up big green matches with his purple and red powers, could actually be a viable strategy.

Funny that you didn't mention Balance of Power, which allows players to try lots of different teams that might not be competitive outside of that event, including mixing up 3*, 4*, and 5*, and it does so without forcing characters restrictions or required combinations...

Your comments leave me wondering if you really can't see the difference between the team building challenge and gameplay variety in an event like Evergreen and a boss event with heroic roster restrictions, or if you're just arguing for this sake:

LavaManLee said:

It is clear there are a subset of forum posters who get smug satisfaction when other players can't use their preferred team (be it Grocket/Polares/Kitty or Hulkoye or something else).  This fascination is completely over my head.

I mean I see the differences you pointed out. One is versus. One is story. One you are facing other teams with the same restrictions. In the other you are facing AI teams not bound by the same restrictions. 

However they seem more similar than dissimilar.  In all these examples there is a portion of your roster you can’t use (balance of power doesn’t fit this criteria btw). You look at things like combined arms and evergreen as opportunities and things like the recent boss event as limitations. The reality is all the events limit you and they all provide both challenges and opportunities. It all depends on your mindset. We’ve seen some people already saying in these threads that they realize they need to chase more characters and not just the meta toons. To me that’s awesome. That’s a mindset shift. Rather than curse the developers they’re thinking “how can I do a bit better next time”. 

The bottom line in all this is I enjoyed it. A lot. You didn’t, and that’s okay. I’m not going to try and convince you to change you’re mind. I did try to get you to understand why someone like me could enjoy events where restrictions are put on them but not enjoy restricting themselves. Not to change your mindset but so you can understand someone else’s. You don’t seem to get it (still) so I’m fine with dropping it. I just hope the devs understand that there were many that did enjoy this event overall and even if they did not, probably enjoyed aspects. 

Wyntre

Theghouse said:

The solution to a lot of arguing in this thread already exists, and I didn't read all 14 pages so sorry if this has already been suggested, but milestones is the answer everybody is looking for.

Instead of restricting rosters with the heroic format - which was extremely unpopular before and equally unpopular now (with even worse alienation of newer rosters due to sheer number of characters, and will get even worse with new 3* incoming) - they could have simply made some event milestones for the boss event.

They could have still even been tailored specifically to Dark Avengers, such as "defeat Gargantos 10/30/50 times with a dark avenger on your team", "deal 25k/50k/100k damage using dark avengers", character specific challenges such as "use agent venoms military might ability 5/10/25 times", even crazy challenges like "use scorpions acid spray ability to strengthen a strike tile created by Daken" if the game has a way to track activity that specific.

If you want to play boss event with absolutely no regard for extra challenges, great.  You want to do a few challenges, go for it.  You want to complete every single challenge, top marks ace!  By definition, the challenges will be more challenging than just using top meta teams to defeat bosses as quick as possible, so there is the new added challenge some people are asking for.

The rewards would be completely subjective to the devs idea of what is fitting, but this would work with even minimal amounts of ISO and lesser level tokens all the way up to shards for characters who are featured in the challenges, HP, CP, favorite characters shards, LTs, maybe even larger rewards for completing numerous different challenges similar to the daily complete 6.

And this approach would not only work for boss events but also for any PVE, even PVPs on a per-event or even per-season basis.

This is seriously brilliant for one simple reason: choice.  You do not ever go wrong giving your player base *options*.  The Milestone approach is way better than Hound's proposed singular hard mode/normal mode track approach where you have to lock in to a track immediately.