Gargantos Heroic Boss Event Impressions

Daniel2121

Yeah, I was suprised I reached that yellow Venom cover, didn't think I'd make it. Now it's 2 levels away from champion. Next time they think of a DA only event, I won't lose that easily 

DAZ0273

Hopefully we are done with the DA for a good while!

Daniel2121

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Bowgentle

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Agent Venom.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

gamecat235

Post-Mortem:

We had 8 players (myself included) make it to the full progression in our casual alliance. The highlight of the event for me was losing our most enthusiastic new player (~90 days in game, 38 roster.  spots, 7 champed 3*’s) after he reached full progression, he then left us for an alliance more in line with his gameplay. Personally, I couldn’t be prouder of him. But I think it says that the event 100% *could* be run by *anyone*.

DAZ0273

Bowgentle said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Agent Venom.

Yup.   

DAZ0273

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

If my 5* went down I left them there and I was happy to let Sentry kill the loaners on the side missions. When my 366 version died at one point I just switched to the 300 version and he was killing goons right up to the end. I dipped in and out of the 3* otherwise all of whom were max champed, Bullseye was OK too and I had 3 of him to choose from. I had Venom, Agent Venom & Scorpion to do the heavy lifting (although not all at once of course). It really wasn't much of an issue.

LavaManLee

It is clear there are a subset of forum posters who get smug satisfaction when other players can't use their preferred team (be it Grocket/Polares/Kitty or Hulkoye or something else).  This fascination is completely over my head.

HoundofShadow

When I play against 550 rosters in scl 10 pve first bracket, I was doing it for the adrenaline. Watching my placement going up and down after each couple clears is exciting. That's why putting Heroic into pve will shake things up as far as placement is concerned because competitive players will have to think and improvise new synergies if their original planned teams didn't work as well as expected. Adrenaline, that's what I'm after in pve.

Also, competing against 550 Hulkoye using my 450 SC at best gives me T10 placement in scl 10. It's something predictable and repeatable. There's no way I'm getting T5 in SCL 10 pve first bracket unless I lucked into it. However, Heroic would definitely shake things up because 550 players and I would be on an almost even playing field. 

Putting those milestone challenges are highly unlikely to give me any adrenaline, but I'll do it just for the rewards if it's worth it, since it's there.

As for the distinction of having better rewards in Heroic compared to normal event, it's a natural or typical occurence in many games. More challenging tasks give you better rewards than normal tasks. It's not something I want, but it's something you can observe. Naturally, I would expect such distinctions, and therefore I made the remark about how Heroics should have better rewards than normal mode. 

As for players wanting the dev to force them to do things they don't want, I'm equally puzzled by it. There are also players who want the dev to force them to use Classic tokens by requesting the dev to put Classic tokens as rewards. I think those who want the dev to force them to do things they won't do are probably closet MPQ masochists. 

Bad

Theghouse said:

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

I will repeat in other words what I already said.
Because as the player facing the challenge I will automatically choose the most optime way to conquer it.
If I have full access to my roster there is no event until now proposed by the devs which will challenge me, even in scl10. 
If devs propose me a heavy restriction I will have an entertaining first time at least when choosing my options and looking how I can do the best use of them, then experimenting until effectively I can decide which tactics work and which ones not.
Then at the end of the progression I will have a feeling to having defeated the challenge. 
And no, I'm not the only one having the "bizarre fascination" as you call it.
Look at the opinions of many players here.

fight4thedream

The big takeaway for me this event was how quickly the dev team responded to player feedback and tried to adjust the event to make it more playable for more players. I don't think the previous dev team ever did anything like that during an event in progress. 

I think that it's a positive sign the new dev team wants to try new things but is also very sensitive to how it will affect the playerbase as a whole. Good stuff imho! 

Timemachinego

I've been away and wanted to give my thoughts, as far as challenge level this felt appropriate for a "mature" (mostly champed) 4* roster and changing from an LL that gave you a 1:7 chance of a 5* cover to a guaranteed one should probably come with some added challenge. That said, it was NOT fun and having the change sprung on those of us that were used to more or less treating alliance weekends as a vacation (I was getting sunburnt in a weird town with almost no cell service when I found the change, lol) wasn't great. We're also all now well aware that the DA grouping has no synergy and mostly kind of sucks, so that was also not fun. I came to appreciate the challenge level but at least let us have a dozen 4s or something to choose from, the selection was much too limited. Even with a well-ran 2 year roster I only actually had 1 of the "good" characters for this event at any useful level; that could also be a scaling issue, dunno.

The plus was absolutely how quickly our new team (I really like you guys =x) responded to criticism and did ANYTHING to make it better for us. That was really cool.

DevpoolMPQ_BCS

Tiger_Wong said:

I wish the unusable characters were greyed out. 

But other than that, this is fun. 5+ Yelena and Saumrai Dak are doing work. The DA don’t have a lot of synergy but I can make it work. 

Sorry about that bug - very annoying. We definitely tried out a few things off the beaten path with this one and this ended up being something we grudgingly ran with. Thanks for dealing with it!

kk3thess

After the changes, this event was beatable and bearable. It wasn't fun to play with the same combination of characters throughout the entire event (Agent Venom, Scorpion, and Green Goblin for me. Didn't play with any other character or combination at any moment), but it got me through the challenge with almost no losses. 

If I could suggest one change, it would be to give the player a chance to choose one character from each tier to add to the required character. This would expand the possibilities, test the players knowledge about the synergy between characters, and it would still be challenging. At least that's what I think.

Daredevil217

Theghouse said:

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

That’s such a bad analogy. Evergreen was a popular event. People went as far as to request other versions of it (only black powers, only red, etc). Combined Arms is also great. When people get excited and ask for more content like this, I don’t hear people saying “you can play a 2/3/4* combo anytime you want. What is this weird fascination with wanting to make everyone else suffer through it!?”  

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

HOEPPI

First of all: excuse my broken English. I'm german.

I play in an alliance with a lot of newbies. Usually the higher leveled members could do their job and were happy to share the profit with the latest players.

This time I went into the event and got my *ss beat in the first round. This was corrected by the developers soon. Thanks for that.

After this change I was able to win sometimes 'til the sixth round. At this point I had to use 50 (!) health packs. This was too annoying, so I stopped playing this event. Just as every member of my alliance did.

The free tokens are not really satisfying, if you hit three 1*.

I play this game since four years (with a little break), spent a lot of money (sure, my problem), but I don't want to play a game, that forces my to play with characters, that even I would have build them, were out auf chance to run through this event without trouble.

Do this again, but don't call it "Alliance Event". This was a slap in the face of the most players.

spatenfloot

DevpoolMPQ_BCS said:

Tiger_Wong said:

I wish the unusable characters were greyed out. 

But other than that, this is fun. 5+ Yelena and Saumrai Dak are doing work. The DA don’t have a lot of synergy but I can make it work. 

Sorry about that bug - very annoying. We definitely tried out a few things off the beaten path with this one and this ended up being something we grudgingly ran with. Thanks for dealing with it!

any thoughts on a progressive wave event where each character used would be locked out for a certain amount of time? as it got harder, people would have to choose whether to use their best character or save them for a later fight.

LavaManLee

HOEPPI said:

Do this again, but don't call it "Alliance Event". This was a slap in the face of the most players.

I said this in one of my earlier posts.  The problem wasn't that we were restricted to DA.  The problem was that they ran it as an Alliance Event.  If it was a one-off "Heroic" individual event, it really wouldn't have mattered.  But calling it an Alliance Event was (IMHO) the wrong thing to do without any pre-communication.

Tarelgeth

I used to play a game called heroclix where you construct a team of comic characters to fight other peoples teams. Trying to build within the restrictions was fun. Probably my favorite part. All characters must be wearing hats, only mutants, only characters wearing red/white/blue, all women, etc. I’m competitive by nature, so trying to build the best team I can with judge imposed restrictions provided an extra challenge. I mean I could make a team of all hat-wearers if I wanted to whether that was the build condition or not, but I’m competitive so want to build the best team I can within the restrictions given to me. With no restrictions, I’ll just run the usual meta. But with restrictions it’s so fun to try and find a new meta for that given event. 

To use one more analogy, condole video games get dinged for being too easy to beat. I probably won’t buy one if I read a lot of reviews and that’s a criticism. Well, just try to beat the game using only the first weapon, don’t level up, don’t collect potions, etc. I mean yeah I can make it harder by handicapping myself, but that’s much less enjoyable than entering hard mode and playing within those restrictions. 

I like restrictions but don’t like when they’re self-imposed. I don’t know if this concept is really that hard to understand or you’re being facetious. 

I would be thrilled to see creative restrictions like that.  "No characters with Red as one of their colors" or something would be fantastic and really make you try to come up with a new combo.

"Only use these characters" doesn't make you try to come up with anything, so this event felt very anti-puzzly to me.  It was the opposite of a team-building challenge.