Gargantos Heroic Boss Event Impressions

TheEyeDoctorsWife

I find it laughable the same people who have ONLY used BRolaris or Scarlet Steel for the past 1-2 YEARS  are complaining they had to use the same team for 3.5 days.

itsuka7

As a cmd of a pve focusef t50, rosters varying from 4* transition to almost all 5* champed, I can add my observations for the devs. My alliance made full progression on saturday, and the last 4* transitioner made personal late on the sunday. My observations.

The good:
1. I really appreciated the addition of loaners. The previous Gargantos had way too many required 4* and 5* and it was frustrating for my 4* transitioners, who could not play all the nodes then. They could now, even if it was way more challenging.

2. I really appreciate that the devs were adjusting in the middle of the event. Listening, learning and willing to adjust things quickly is a stellar attitude that gives us hope for the future.

3. I had some veteran players quit this year because of boredom. The next one I feared that would go this way actually liked this event and was less bored. So, mixing it up might help that crowd. 

4. The event in its current form was extremely challenging for the 4* transitioners, but after the adjustment they managed to complete it. It dud cost them extreme amounts of healthpacks and our Team Up giving capabity was stretched to the limit.

5. I am a 5* player now, but I did the entire event with Agent Venom, Scorpion and 3* Daken. I personally enjoyed rediscovering Scorpion, as he came at a time I was already a 5* player, so never could use him as a damage dealer. My roster has always been broad, and I enjoy careful board play (I would enjoy MPQ even more if the hated cascades were gone, as they encourage dumb instead of careful play, but I play Gems of War to remedy that) so this sort of challenge is fun for me personally.

The bad:
1. Time constraints. Keeping a t50 pve alliance together these days takes serious work. This sort of event might keep in the bored vets, but it will turn away the players who feel they cannot afford so much time and can get by normally by having meta routine teams. They cannot scale down to a lower scl, they have to play as not to let the team down, so these types Alliance events might  make them quit. Because it is more difficult and so more time consuming. A scaling system like pve that would let them get the points but choose to go easier for lower rewards sounds like a great solution to me.

2. Frustration for any player below 5* transition level. Collecting and champing the extremely bloated 4* tier takes ages nowadays. While the loaners helped the 4* transitioners, the heroic style and very limited roster options really hurt them. These guys want to put in the effort, or they would not join our alliance. They felt they had gotten somewhere when they were rosterwise far enough to be eligible for a t50, and they get requirements (if no unlucky combination of 4* and 5* essential turn up in a pve), but now they are shoved back to the ‘maybe not good enough’ category. The adjustment saved them, and their determination and the TU helped them through, but it was hugely frustrating for them. They want to contribute, they do not like to feel a liability for the team.

3. No warning. Had I known in advance, I would have made different champing choices, and I am sure that is true on all levels of play. Iso gain is too slow to suddenly change course on champing characters (and the amount of iso to buy vs costs is so ridiculously bad I have never been even tempted to shell out €100 for a laughably low amount of iso.

When the event started and one of our top 5* players lost to the boss in the first round, I was not confident we could finish the event, even if we normally are in the t10 of speed in finishing an alliance event. We did not come in t10 this time, but everyone finished. I still had to give them the next event off to recover from the shock and horror of it… 

i want to encourage the devs to continue shake things up. But please be mindful and respectful of players that are still struggling to champ the 4* tier, they have invested for a long time and deserve a road to the win. And though I have none in my alliance, give 2* and 3* players perspective.

Bad

As the event is ending, my impressions are:
- I loved to use characters which I don't usually use because there are characters who perform faster than them. Heroic restrictions give a reason for to champ em all, in a game where the content based on speed is still 80%.
- I hadn't any problem at all to make full progression and even scoring something more, like others have commented. Actually when I enjoyed the most is when I tried to check out if the loaners could do their role because there was a real risk of not scoring the points for my alliance and there was a real challenge there.
-Not all rosters are the same and many players are demanding what I asked on mpq devs q&a: scl or some standar difficulty levels por special events.
- Effectively new devs are really taking in mind our feedback and being very communicative. That attitude, at least for me, makes my proud of myself as the effort I put on these forum gets effective rewards (and the infinity support was bananas )

DAZ0273

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

Daniel2121

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

JasonLikesToTravel

Like quite a few others I was continually getting wiped out at the start of this event, not helped by a fairly limited roster (all 3's rostered but still easing in to 4* land).
Not sure if it was a result of the changes or just smarter gameplay / finding a winning combination but this event certainly grew on me once I got to grips with it. I had more fortune in latter rounds despite relying on mostly the loaned characters and quite liked the fact that it was more challenging. 

I didn't hit full progression in the end but that was largely down to traveling Transatlantic over the weekend and missing out on time to play the event. Wouldn't be against a similar boss event in the future. 

DAZ0273

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

Daniel2121

Yeah, I was suprised I reached that yellow Venom cover, didn't think I'd make it. Now it's 2 levels away from champion. Next time they think of a DA only event, I won't lose that easily 

DAZ0273

Hopefully we are done with the DA for a good while!

Daniel2121

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Bowgentle

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Agent Venom.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

3a) I would Thanos/Thor and SC my way out because boss events and its nodes are largely not challenging, and playing against goons are not really challenging. I go to shield sim to look for challenges using non-meta teams/new synergistic teams or pick on high point 550/672 enemies in pvps if they are presented to me and they are worth high points. You could suggest using 1* - 3* as a challenge but fighting against meta teams with non-meta teams are more challenging.

3b) same as 3a: Thanos/Thor and SC.

3c) I would slot the milestone characters in between SC/Thor in boss node just to get the rewards, if it's worth it to me. Else, I'll ignore. 

Rewards are secondary to me as far as using different teams are concerned. I'm already using different teams in shield sim. I prefer challenges to shake things up ans I've suggested to the ex-dev to make things smarter but it wasn't approved. Maybe I should try my luck with the new dev team. 

Hound, it's very cool to see that you have your own goals for each type of event.  If that's how you enjoy playing the game, that's exactly how you should do it.  But this is exactly what I don't understand...

Your last comment says you prefer challenges to shake things up. But then you said you wouldn't use dark avengers even if there were milestone challenges to complete except to put one between your meta speed team if it the reward was worth it.

You say rewards are secondary when choosing to use different teams outside meta.  Let's go back to your posts about the suggestion to have multiple levels for events, one with heroic restrictions with better rewards, and another lower level with lesser rewards.  What would your choice be in that option then, if rewards don't factor into your desire to try new teams, and you find pshield sim the most challenging event to try non-meta teams?

Bad said:

Some points here.
1. To think that players should use second tier tools for to play instead of the best tools it's a naive statement. No, I will use the best tools because the reward it's the same and I will save time, even if it's the same boring gameplay, because I have a life outside and time is gold.
2. I want restrictions (or godboost) that force me to play characters that I almost forgot because now there is a valid reason to play that character.
If the restriction is really tight, I like it the most. I can even realize another part of the game that I wouldn't never experienced because of 1. point.

Another very similar comment here from Bad.

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

To me this is akin to saying "I really enjoy the challenge of the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, but I only do it when the power goes out and I don't have access to TV or Internet."

You can spend all day saying you really like the challenge of the crossword puzzle all you want, but when you choose TV and internet over the crossword puzzle when there is free choice of entertainment options, you are saying with your actions that you prefer the other options over the crossword puzzle.

If you truly enjoy the crossword puzzle in the newspaper, why would you not choose to enjoy it more? Would you be asking your power company to provide worse service, thereby restricting your access to your other entertainment options, so that you are "forced" to enjoy the crossword puzzle more?  That's how ridiculous these requests sound.

gamecat235

Post-Mortem:

We had 8 players (myself included) make it to the full progression in our casual alliance. The highlight of the event for me was losing our most enthusiastic new player (~90 days in game, 38 roster.  spots, 7 champed 3*’s) after he reached full progression, he then left us for an alliance more in line with his gameplay. Personally, I couldn’t be prouder of him. But I think it says that the event 100% *could* be run by *anyone*.

DAZ0273

Bowgentle said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

Agent Venom.

Yup.   

DAZ0273

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

Daniel2121 said:

I still think that most of the frustration with this event comes from the fact that most of the DA heroes are pathetically weak.

I mean, most of them are 2*/3* for crying out loud, with some being among the worst the game has *cough*Sentry*cough*. Many of them have a tendency to hurt themselves and/or their team which is quite literally... unhealthy.

Perhaps if the affiliation was regular Avengers, or X-Men, we would have real fun.

Sentry did just fine for me up through Round 7.

O rly? How many health packs did you spend? 

It wasn't that bad to be honest! I used my 5* until the were killed and didn't bother reviving them and I had two Sentry's to switch between (lvl 300 and 366) and then you had the loaners too. So really only if AV or Scorpion died.

AV? Whaddaya mean? You couldn't use Anti-Venom in this event. It's a different symbiote. Never affiliated with DA to the best of my knowledge.

So basically you got both Sentries along with the loaners, and never bothered to heal either of them? Uhhh ok.

If my 5* went down I left them there and I was happy to let Sentry kill the loaners on the side missions. When my 366 version died at one point I just switched to the 300 version and he was killing goons right up to the end. I dipped in and out of the 3* otherwise all of whom were max champed, Bullseye was OK too and I had 3 of him to choose from. I had Venom, Agent Venom & Scorpion to do the heavy lifting (although not all at once of course). It really wasn't much of an issue.

LavaManLee

It is clear there are a subset of forum posters who get smug satisfaction when other players can't use their preferred team (be it Grocket/Polares/Kitty or Hulkoye or something else).  This fascination is completely over my head.

HoundofShadow

When I play against 550 rosters in scl 10 pve first bracket, I was doing it for the adrenaline. Watching my placement going up and down after each couple clears is exciting. That's why putting Heroic into pve will shake things up as far as placement is concerned because competitive players will have to think and improvise new synergies if their original planned teams didn't work as well as expected. Adrenaline, that's what I'm after in pve.

Also, competing against 550 Hulkoye using my 450 SC at best gives me T10 placement in scl 10. It's something predictable and repeatable. There's no way I'm getting T5 in SCL 10 pve first bracket unless I lucked into it. However, Heroic would definitely shake things up because 550 players and I would be on an almost even playing field. 

Putting those milestone challenges are highly unlikely to give me any adrenaline, but I'll do it just for the rewards if it's worth it, since it's there.

As for the distinction of having better rewards in Heroic compared to normal event, it's a natural or typical occurence in many games. More challenging tasks give you better rewards than normal tasks. It's not something I want, but it's something you can observe. Naturally, I would expect such distinctions, and therefore I made the remark about how Heroics should have better rewards than normal mode. 

As for players wanting the dev to force them to do things they don't want, I'm equally puzzled by it. There are also players who want the dev to force them to use Classic tokens by requesting the dev to put Classic tokens as rewards. I think those who want the dev to force them to do things they won't do are probably closet MPQ masochists. 

Bad

Theghouse said:

What is the bizarre fascination with wanting the devs to FORCE play with limited subsets of characters, when you already have the ability to play with any character or subset you desire?  Especially on boss events, where there is no direct player competition encouraging playing meta teams for speed or  god boosted 5* for advantages over other players, if you enjoy the challenge of using "unused" characters so much why are you not doing it of your own free will otherwise?

I will repeat in other words what I already said.
Because as the player facing the challenge I will automatically choose the most optime way to conquer it.
If I have full access to my roster there is no event until now proposed by the devs which will challenge me, even in scl10. 
If devs propose me a heavy restriction I will have an entertaining first time at least when choosing my options and looking how I can do the best use of them, then experimenting until effectively I can decide which tactics work and which ones not.
Then at the end of the progression I will have a feeling to having defeated the challenge. 
And no, I'm not the only one having the "bizarre fascination" as you call it.
Look at the opinions of many players here.

fight4thedream

The big takeaway for me this event was how quickly the dev team responded to player feedback and tried to adjust the event to make it more playable for more players. I don't think the previous dev team ever did anything like that during an event in progress. 

I think that it's a positive sign the new dev team wants to try new things but is also very sensitive to how it will affect the playerbase as a whole. Good stuff imho! 

Timemachinego

I've been away and wanted to give my thoughts, as far as challenge level this felt appropriate for a "mature" (mostly champed) 4* roster and changing from an LL that gave you a 1:7 chance of a 5* cover to a guaranteed one should probably come with some added challenge. That said, it was NOT fun and having the change sprung on those of us that were used to more or less treating alliance weekends as a vacation (I was getting sunburnt in a weird town with almost no cell service when I found the change, lol) wasn't great. We're also all now well aware that the DA grouping has no synergy and mostly kind of sucks, so that was also not fun. I came to appreciate the challenge level but at least let us have a dozen 4s or something to choose from, the selection was much too limited. Even with a well-ran 2 year roster I only actually had 1 of the "good" characters for this event at any useful level; that could also be a scaling issue, dunno.

The plus was absolutely how quickly our new team (I really like you guys =x) responded to criticism and did ANYTHING to make it better for us. That was really cool.