Polaris has ruined PVP???

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,276 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm about 70k iso away from champing Gambit 3.0, so I'll get to wistfully imagine what it was like back in those days sometime next week probably.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,298 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Kolence said:


    And of course there is the old Archangel and Lumbercap attempts to stop rampant passive AP gain (Aerial Superiority, 7 Black AP) and active power spam resulting from rampant AP gain (Man Without a Country, 6 Purple AP), but that feels like a meta that's long past in regards to the kinds of passive abilities we see today which are mostly just passive damage or passive mega-boosting of damage.
    What's interesting is that both Archangel and IW Cap were targeted counters, aimed at Gambit, whose passive AP gain completely dominated the meta at that time.  Neither one had any impact on his use.  Shortly after that Gambit was nerfed.

    I'm sure this is just meaningless trivia that will never repeat itself in the future.
    They might have worked on the initial Gambit AP gain. Though I doubt it? 

    They had no chance against Gambit 2.0's own passive AP drain though. Even as a relatively cheap powers, playing 1 AP vs 7 AP when exchanging simple match-3s is quite enough to make them fail, but on top, they were tied to Countdowns and thus vulnerable to Gambit's Purple too.
    The idea was you'd use them on purple, I think?  This goes back to the question of whether they're bad at making counters, or counters simply aren't viable in this game.  A third option might be that some characters are so good that they're not realistically counter-able.  (Gambit ultimately fell into this category, probably) 

    Either way, they took a couple unsuccessful shots at him before deciding to go ahead with the nerf.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,276 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Gambit was definitely counterable, and as we all keep wistfully saying would probably not even be a player in the current meta compared to some of who we have today to choose from. For whatever reason there was just no effort made to try and tune things like power cost. You just aren't going to counter a passive like that with an active power that requires 2x matches to fire. If it cost 3 purple you could do it.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,298 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Gambit was definitely counterable, and as we all keep wistfully saying would probably not even be a player in the current meta compared to some of who we have today to choose from. For whatever reason there was just no effort made to try and tune things like power cost. You just aren't going to counter a passive like that with an active power that requires 2x matches to fire. If it cost 3 purple you could do it.
    If the IW Cap or AA's counter power cost 3ap it would indeed counter Gambit but it would've become just as oppressive as Gambit was.  The problem was that they were trying to counter an unfair power with fair powers, and that strategy was always doomed to fail.
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 984 Critical Contributor
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    Leave my Queen Polaris alone! 
    She's lovely just the way she is.
     :) 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If you are in 3* land, I can think of Hulk, Captain Marvel, Hawkeye who can counter her. All you need to do is to figure out why they work and you should be able to find a natural partner for them.
  • Daniel2121
    Daniel2121 Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
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    I know 2*/3* Marvel can deal with Protect tiles but not Attack nor Strike tiles...
  • fractalvisions
    fractalvisions Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
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    I know 2*/3* Marvel can deal with Protect tiles but not Attack nor Strike tiles...
    I presume HoundofShadow's point is more that her black can stun and her yellow passive generates red and black when she gets hit hard ... assuming she's not downed of course.

    Squirrel Girl's purple can also be very effective against Polaris, again assuming she survives long enough to use it.
  • fractalvisions
    fractalvisions Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't think anybody wants to go back to a game where you have to actually match tiles and cast powers to win -- it'd almost be a completely different game at this point.

    I'd be happy with that.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2021
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    I know 2*/3* Marvel can deal with Protect tiles but not Attack nor Strike tiles...
    Hulk and 3* Marvel work because they feed off taking damage. Against Polaris, Hulk will destroy the board with his black and probably fire off a power or two since he has lots of health. Marvel generates AP. If I attack theses teams with Polaris/Grocket I need to pray I get three blue matches to stun before reaching Hulk/Marvel (surprisingly difficult to do consistently) or I eat health packs after the match. Forcing health packs is the biggest deterrent this game has to offer. 

    You don’t have to climb with either character. Most of the players you’re climbing over have similar rosters to you and likely no Polaris. You will not necessarily be vulnerable to retaliation. But if you use Hulk/Marvel at the end they will form your defensive team and will be skipped by Polaris/Grocket more often. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Right, the intention is to get 3*CM to boost your aps. Every trigger nets you 5 red ap and 3 black ap.  You are not going to let her use those red aps. Someone else will. 

    Another character I used back when I was dealing with meta (R4G, GotG, Carnage, Medusa) was 3* Rocket. The concept is to let 3* Rocket tank and heal those damage while using them to build up ap where their allies share one or two colours with them. For example, IM40.

    Since you are in 3* land, the Polaris you are seeing are probably not highly levelled (between 6 to 10 covers).  The thing about dealing with such meta teams is not to focus on just one counter team. Instead, have a few counter teams you can rotate while climbing in pvps. You can then focus your Healthpacks on your core team while doing a last burst.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    R3G back in the day could be a highly frustrating opponent. The AI likes yellow so they are not terrible on defence either.
  • UnsmashableTim
    UnsmashableTim Posts: 81 Match Maker
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    I agree with the original comment.  I used to play a couple years ago and pvp was pretty full of various teams. Now it's Polaris, Kitty pride and beta ray Bill...
    Occasionally, you'll see okoye and immortal Hulk

    I used to make pvp my priority but now the simulator is not to be touched.  There may be counters but that's not the point.
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 467 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2021
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    I agree with the original comment.  I used to play a couple years ago and pvp was pretty full of various teams. Now it's Polaris, Kitty pride and beta ray Bill...
    Occasionally, you'll see okoye and immortal Hulk

    I used to make pvp my priority but now the simulator is not to be touched.  There may be counters but that's not the point.

    The point is that you can't be bothered to try to play the game as it is today, not that Polaris is a problem. She is infinitely solveable. 4* meta isn't a single-team state like Hulkoye (was?), there are multiple teams that work against this or that other team also, so you rotate.
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 789 Critical Contributor
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    I agree with the original comment.  I used to play a couple years ago and pvp was pretty full of various teams. Now it's Polaris, Kitty pride and beta ray Bill...
    Occasionally, you'll see okoye and immortal Hulk

    I used to make pvp my priority but now the simulator is not to be touched.  There may be counters but that's not the point.
    A few commenters have pointed out that what you see in PvP is not everything there is. I see Polaris teams in PvP, but I also see a lot of other teams. These teams vary and are not anti-Polaris teams. Much of what you see has to do with the matchmaking system rather than what players are using. In addition, players use multiple teams. Some players may use one team to reach the top, then switch to another team as a deterrence.

    For example, a player might use Hulkoye to get to top 10, then switch over to BRBitty/Polaris because they know that team takes more time to defeat. Since players at the top are time crunched, they will often skip that team. You may also see players using Polaris to get to the top, then switch to a heavy defense team for the same reason. Depending on when you jump into PvP and where you are in the ranking, you will see either different teams or a lot of the same teams. I am currently seeing a variety of non-Polaris teams in the PvP event, Nine Lives. Right now, the 3 I am looking at are Killmonger/Chavez, 5* Black Widow/Black Bolt, and Dr. 5trange/Black Bolt. 

    I think it is important to note that boosted characters also have an impact on which teams you see. Since they started boosting 5* characters, I have started to see more variety in the teams selected. Since Polaris syncs so well with many characters, you will still see quite a few Polaris teams, but with so many boosted characters, we are bound to see other teams too.
  • UnsmashableTim
    UnsmashableTim Posts: 81 Match Maker
    edited June 2021
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    They don't boost for simulator though do they?
  • Bergen
    Bergen Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    edited June 2021
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    with 4groot teams you can use saber, u can use it with medusa, u can use it with 4*thanos ... there is no limit you can counter a polaris team with another polaris team; but would it be that easy without using polaris.... no, but would still use non polaris teams to counter polaris teams; example saber,morbius,4thanos are some that comes in to my mind, even some examples are in pve; you will see quite a few counters without polaris exists, i dont use polaris teams in some pve nodes because they counter fast polaris teams ...
    with 4-5* mixed teams you need to mix some 5*s as well.... with colosus you can kill polaris in 1-2 rounds for example...
  • pook0203
    pook0203 Posts: 4 Just Dropped In
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    The only thing left of this game I haven't truly figured out is how PvP matchups are done really. Honestly I wished it would let us go head to head send challenges to those online at the moment your on and let the best man win I ain't ever quite felt like it's all that great to attack others with the CPU being the opponent instead of the actual person who has that roster you know. Plus it would cut out the over powered rosters from jumping you to like i want even attack people with far lesser teams than my own I will look at every opponent's roster and see if they can even get their redemption against me. I say it's leeching cause i look at every A-hole that attacks me I look and see they have super teams and i check the standings and I don't even see them ranked anywhere in the group if they are in a different group on my level then it must be what's happening but that also is **** just cause they for instance are fighting level 8 and chose a different start time than me they should be only able to fight with those in that start/end time group if that's even capable the whole thing I have never really reached out to y'all on here to find out. As for Polaris I can neutralize her easy I got plenty of firepower and I'm very tactical with how I play each match and I know almost all characters powers and what they do and who I can utilize to make a problem opponent not that difficult to battle I know what I'm doing it just lately literally pisses me off that all I see anymore is the same teams and yeah I do get that's the last team that person used but shoot they gotta do something on it. I aint whining and crying like no lol b**** naw I'm not it's just making my favorite game the only game I even play get dull and lame it's like you can't even have any matchup with a variety of teams and if you happen to find one shoot it's suicide to fight some cause they are matchups way overpowered than myself. I made this thread though to gauge and see how others felt on it and im glad I got some pointers in here I'm not as seasoned as some are I could have been I should have stuck with this game all the way back when it first launched back when it was 1s and 2s life went to hell back in them days I had much worse things going on but I been hardcore everyday for well over 2 years now got almost 13 covers of every 4 star and almost all 5s to my 3s and 2s I farm them out always assuring I got least 1 of each for specific events. I just wanted to see some views on it and get any pointers as well thanks to all who shared some skill knowledge