Polaris has ruined PVP???

Sekilicious

You bet, though in a weird unique way I wouldn’t expect much difference between the characters you’re seeing and the 47x MMR this event assuming both have all the meta champed. Just in who those characters belong to.

As another aside I’ve been targeted three times in the last couple of hours, two by Polaris teams (the third was a retal). Once with Carbage, Medusa and another with Apocalypse, BRB. Normally this would not be significant but I currently have 100 more points than the #2 position in my block, so should be open season. I don’t expect it to last, just find it much different than my normal PvP experience. 

Zalasta

Polaris is never a problem for me. Bring a 5 star team like Onslaught, Prof-X, Thor, and she dies in the first or second move (assuming you can get a match 4). It's the same for any low health 4 star. I love to see them, because I know that I can almost instantly remove one of the obstacles to victory. Bishop was uniquely challenging, and definitely OP for his level.

If you don't have to roster to counter, then that's on you.

acescracked

HoundofShadow said:

These are the Polaris related teams in BoP:

BRB/Kitty
BRB/Apocalypse
BRB/Medusa
BRB/Carbage
Kitty/Carbage
Kitty/R4G
Carbage/Medusa

7 teams made up of 7 unique characters.


For every iHulkoye team out there, I see 4 to 5 Polaris teams.


Boost doesn't affect your MMR. So you will still see whoever is your typical MMR.

 BRB/Morbius

BRB/1* Juggs
BRB/3* Thanos
Okoye/ihulk (rare)

SnowcaTT

Polaris hasn't 'ruined' PVP but she's certainly carved a spot into "Best 4* by far" that Bishop previously had.

.....maybe because both of them have a stun and worked incredibly well with BRB? Without BRB I haven't seen many Polaris teams present problems for 5* teams.

In BOP.....yeah, because she's most powerful 4* by far, that can be used to take down 5*'s, when boosted to 550 of course she's the most powerful thing in the game. Let me go cycle a bit, putting initials off to the side to not repeat mentioning teams and not name players

Polaris/Medusa/Grocket (SC)
Polaris/Medusa/Grocket (SH)
Polaris/Medusa/Carnage (VS)
Polaris/Medusa/Juggernaut (CP)
Polaris/Medusa/Carnage (GJ)
Polaris/Medusa/Carnage (ND)
Polaris/Medusa/SW (LW)
Polaris/Medusa/SW (V)
Polaris/Medusa/Kitty (Yo)
Polaris/Medusa/Modock (EV)
Polaris/Grocket/Jug (LTJ)
Polaris/Grocket/Jug (DD)
Polaris/Grocket/Jug (Vy)
Polaris/Jug/tooth (MS)
Polaris/Medusa/BRB (5* unchamped)
Polaris/Grocket/Kitty (5* unchamped)
Polaris/Nico/BRB (5* unchamped)
Polaris/4Thanos/BRB (5* unchamped)
Polaris/Chavez/Colossus (5* unchamped)
Polaris/Grocket/Onslaught (5* unchamped)
Polaris/BRB/Kitty (both 5* unchamped)

I see so many more teams than the usual 5-6 in this! Near the top, MMR wide open.

....because everyone has Polaris champed, and she's boosted the same for everyone, and she's by far the best character in here. That is every single one of my skips - I did not see a non-Polaris team.

Same as "Okoye problem" in upper 5*-land. When one character is far and away the best character, and everyone spends their time/pulls/BH to get that one, then it's going to typically be the only thing you see. In a normal event, Polaris is 370 and Okoye is the 550. This event is the one where we can see when "all things are equal" - and see that the best 4*'s would overpower the best 5*'s in that scenario.

It's a good outcome. It should show the devs which 4*'s are super powerful, and maybe even how to fix them. If not nerfs, Modock-style "punish teams with tiles" would seem to be a great fit....and work with some 5* problem characters as well!

Sekilicious

Happily I’m being targeted a lot now. Turns out Polaris with 100k health is still a pushover, even if the main counter is other Polaris centered teams. She rarely survives two rounds when targeted with Juggernaut and Grocket. My main problem now is finding a counter to Carbage, but probably the main counter would be not being a chicken. 

I still haven’t seen any Wanda centered teams, even after breaking MMR. I thought her defense buff would help with the Polaris problem. 

Nero

In BOP for the moment i dont had to use polaris one single time.  My new favorite team against BRB/pola is Morbius/America Chavez/Hulk ME and my Morbius is not full covered.

If i see a Polaris team it's like to say come and hit me.

If you ad a Morbius  in your team the Pola teams are erased.

Wonko33

What I don’t get is what are you guys proposing? Nerf? It’s just going to be on to the next most powerful duo, you will never see diversity in PvP, they’ve tried for years. People complain until enough older characters get nerfed then we play more modern ones that they also have, suddenly they stop complaining and the new group of people who don’t have those start to complain. Even when if you improved a bunch of weak characters people still play the most powerful 2. Honestly this is the most diverse it has been IMO. We have a couple of teams people play where it is usually just one. 

entrailbucket

They're going to nerf her, it's just a question of when.  Morbius illustrated pretty clearly that she's on their radar.  It appears that introducing a few counters for her (including one fairly obvious "hard" counter) hasn't reduced her usage at all.  When that happens there's a nerf incoming.  I don't know if that's right or wrong, or good or bad for the game, but it's how they've done things in the past.

HoundofShadow

Let's nerf Okoye before we talk about nerfing Polaris. R4G has been on the nerf list since 2017/2018(?), and they are still walking tall.

entrailbucket

HoundofShadow said:

Let's nerf Okoye before we talk about nerfing Polaris. R4G has been on the nerf list since 2017/2018(?), and they are still walking tall.

Oh I'm definitely *not* calling for a Polaris nerf, in fact I'd much rather they didn't do it.  Polaris teams are an absolute joke to hit for 5* players, and they let 4* players climb way higher than they could otherwise, so her presence lets us climb higher much easier than we could if she didn't exist.

I'm just saying there are strong indications that it's gonna happen relatively soon.  If you don't currently have a backup plan you should probably start thinking about one.

Sekilicious

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

jp1

HoundofShadow said:

This is based on level 45x MMR. I remember someone saying 47X MMR is different, but I'm don't know how true it is. So, you need to wait for someone with at least three to five 5* at those levels.

I have 7 five stars between 470 and 48* and the list seems pretty accurate. However, I never see Medusa outside of balance of power.

fractalvisions

Daredevil217 said:

fractalvisions said:

Akoni said:

Warbringa said:

Depends on where you are at with your roster.  I love facing Polaris teams in PvP because they are free wins.  You can reasonably kill her very quickly with many 5* just based on match damage.  You then have an instant 3 vs 2 advantage, which swings the fight greatly to your team, even if the other two are BRB and Kitty.  If you don't have good 5*, then yes this team would be rough to face and defeat as letting Polaris stay around for a few extra turns is death.

Even if you don't have any decent 5*, Polaris is still fairly easy to beat. Polaris vs Polaris will almost always go in favor of the player since the AI is predictable. The only times I have lost involved ridiculously unlucky cascades or a misplay on my part because I'm half asleep. As a mostly 4* player, I can quickly beat P-Groc, P-Medusa, P-Mobius, P-Karnak and P-Sabre. I can also beat P-Juggs, P-Kitty, and P-BRB, but prefer to skip them when I'm T25 since they are slow matches.

The trick to beating a Polaris team, as Warbringa says, is to take out Polaris first, then focus all of your attention on the next big threat. The only exception is P-Carbage. Focusing on Polaris first might get you slaughtered. When I shifted my focus to taking out Carbage first, I started winning more against that team.

I feel like saying that it's easy to beat Polaris, you just need to use Polaris, really highlights the problem here. People who have Polaris feel compelled to use her, thus compelling everyone to use her. And people who don't have Polaris (e.g. 3* players or 4* players who just returned to the game) feel at a significant disadvantage. 

Strongly disagree. She’s one of MANY options people have shared to beat her. People are compelled to use her because she’s the best. But that’s not a Polaris problem. There will always be a “best”. Before her, there was a best (see: Hound’s timeline). Nerf her and there will be a new best. At least she has the Okoye factor- one who can speed the game up for you but is easy to beat. That highlights what a GOOD character she is. Not the opposite. 

I know that there are many options (as illustrated by my 2nd paragraph), but certainly whenever this subject comes up, the majority of the responses are to just use Polaris.

As for your point about there always being a 'best', I'm not so convinced that it has to be that way. When I was in 3* land (which was before Strange and long enough ago that I may be misremembering), I had the feeling the 3* characters were fairly well balanced. Sure, you'd see a lot of Cage+Fist, but it always felt like it was at least possible to take them down with pretty much any 3* team. The same is clearly not true in 4* land. A bunch of average 4* characters aren't going to be able to compete with the top characters. I'm not saying I expect this to change. They're putting out one new 4* per month and naturally want to come up with some interesting new skill-set each time, so I guess it's always going to be tough keeping everything balanced with so many characters in the game.

Sekilicious

If the IM40 AI targeted yellow or Luke Cage AI did not waste black then the 3* meta would be less open. On offence I had trouble with SCL5 and 6 PvE until I had the meta 3* characters champed, particularly IM40, Strange, IF, Cage, Thanos, and Switch with a helping of KK and Captain America. Each of these became obsolete as I moved into 4* though I definitely chased meta characters. The average 3* sat an the bench and waited until they were required. 

This is very similar to my 4* experience. I have a group that sees regular use, the rest I don’t care if are champed outside rewards. 

entrailbucket

Sekilicious said:

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

The good thing about this is that you can objectively evaluate whether or not Morbius is "doing his job." If Polaris starts showing up less, then he's working.  If every team is still Polaris, then the counter isn't doing its job. 

So far, it sounds like he hasn't had any impact.  I suspect that's because while Morbius can beat Polaris, Polaris can beat Morbius (and also everything else).  If he was a true counter, he'd beat Polaris whether he was on offense or defense.

Anon

I think the reason Morbius isn't as ubiquitous as Polaris is because Polaris works with just about anyone whether they make SAP tiles or not because she just creates her own. Morbius is a direct Polaris counter yes, but that's kinda all he does (yes he has 2 other powers but there's only 1 reason to really bring him, and that's his black). So bringing one character to counter one other character is fine, but then you just used up a slot in pick 2 or 3 that you could've used on someone "better".

What I'm trying to say is Morbius counters Polaris but that sort of makes him niche whereas you can toss Polaris into just about any team and it'd still work.

Bad

A polaris L 350 has 22k health, that is something. A morbius 270 has 13k.
The reason morbius is not there is because it is too soon, people still dont champ him.
Give time to time before talking of him as inneffective.
Because I saw some unchamped morbius on hulkoye teams already.

entrailbucket

Bad said:

A polaris L 350 has 22k health, that is something. A morbius 270 has 13k.
The reason morbius is not there is because it is too soon, people still dont champ him.
Give time to time before talking of him as inneffective.
Because I saw some unchamped morbius on hulkoye teams already.

In Balance of Power they're both lvl550.

Sekilicious

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

The good thing about this is that you can objectively evaluate whether or not Morbius is "doing his job." If Polaris starts showing up less, then he's working.  If every team is still Polaris, then the counter isn't doing its job. 

So far, it sounds like he hasn't had any impact.  I suspect that's because while Morbius can beat Polaris, Polaris can beat Morbius (and also everything else).  If he was a true counter, he'd beat Polaris whether he was on offense or defense.

There are two sides to that though, as Anon stated. Even if Morbius is an effective counter, which I think he is but as Bad points out few players actually have him champed yet, there are few characters that have the speed of Polaris. All that do are in 5* territory. If they nerf Polaris there will be fewer players able to challenge SCL9 in PvE and able to challenge 75 wins in PvP. Most running with Polaris do so because she helps players hit their goals to speed up the progression of their roster. The solution would be to let power creep in and add a character or two that can complete with Polaris speed but active hurts if you have SAP tiles.

Morbius may not be much of deterrent of defense, but then few characters are. No one in 4* land is, not even Polaris. I happily target all the meta teams as they all have counters. The only time I skip is if they are offering low points or I get targeted by champed hulkyoke after I break MMR. Really, if Polaris targets Morbius that is an AI problem. 

hothie

I made it up to 1st place at 596 pts on Day 1 of BoP in my bracket with Morbius/Polaris and Juggs early, then Hawkeye-3 later. Nearly every single squad I faced had Polaris in it, and Morbius chewed (sucked?) through almost all of them. When they're at the same level, he worked well to counter her, along with focusing on blue matches early to get my Polaris to stun theirs first.