Polaris has ruined PVP???

entrailbucket

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

The good thing about this is that you can objectively evaluate whether or not Morbius is "doing his job." If Polaris starts showing up less, then he's working.  If every team is still Polaris, then the counter isn't doing its job. 

So far, it sounds like he hasn't had any impact.  I suspect that's because while Morbius can beat Polaris, Polaris can beat Morbius (and also everything else).  If he was a true counter, he'd beat Polaris whether he was on offense or defense.

There are two sides to that though, as Anon stated. Even if Morbius is an effective counter, which I think he is but as Bad points out few players actually have him champed yet, there are few characters that have the speed of Polaris. All that do are in 5* territory. If they nerf Polaris there will be fewer players able to challenge SCL9 in PvE and able to challenge 75 wins in PvP. Most running with Polaris do so because she helps players hit their goals to speed up the progression of their roster. The solution would be to let power creep in and add a character or two that can complete with Polaris speed but active hurts if you have SAP tiles.

Morbius may not be much of deterrent of defense, but then few characters are. No one in 4* land is, not even Polaris. I happily target all the meta teams as they all have counters. The only time I skip is if they are offering low points or I get targeted by champed hulkyoke after I break MMR. Really, if Polaris targets Morbius that is an AI problem. 

Right, I mean, you're making the argument that a Polaris nerf would be bad, which is not the argument I'm making at all.  I'm saying they will nerf her. 

I'd actually rather they didn't, because it makes PvP more difficult for 5* players.  But they targeted her pretty specifically with a counter and it hasn't impacted her usage at all.  I don't expect them to just give up.  Maybe they'll try another counter first or something, but I don't think she is actually counter-able.

Nero

I want to face pola/morbius/ jug with my morbius/rogue/quake.

Morbius is a new born in the game.

BOP was the good time for see if he is good in her job and i have a lot of fun with him.

I wonder if he can be usefull with wandavision...

Sekilicious

I’m less arguing with you than making a point that speed in 4* land is important to the health of the game. You have become my muse as it were I guess. A 4* equivalent of Okoye would help encourage people to not use Polaris. Someone who might boost the damage that Morbius does would certainly deter him being targeted. 

HoundofShadow

Morbius is still relatively new. Most players would have him at 5 to 6 covers, and if you don't have 5 covers in his black power, he won't be as effective. I will wait till July or August before making any judgement. In 4* land, ISO-8 crunch is a big obstacle to overcome. In 5* land, I see him more frequently now, with iHulkoye team or Polaris team.

I don't think there's any point in having a 4* equivalent of Okoye. Let's use Nico Minoru vs Kitty as an example.

At 255, with only 1 cover in her yellow, Kitty boosts special tiles by 91 x 5  tiles, if you have between 2 to 4 of them.

A champed Nico boosts all special tiles by 68, if you have more special tiles of that type than your opponents.

Kitty's boost is at least 91/68= 1.34 times stronger than Nico's. At 550, Kitty's boost is 1367/566= 2.42 times more potent.

1 cover in Okoye's black boosts power by 195 per team up. Using the above example, a champed 4* version of will be approximately 145, with harder requirement due to being a 4*. It could be: it activates if you have more TU than opponents, or it's capped at 15 boosts or you need more teamups per boost etc.

1 cover of 5* will trump over a champed 4* version easily in the above scenario.

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

The good thing about this is that you can objectively evaluate whether or not Morbius is "doing his job." If Polaris starts showing up less, then he's working.  If every team is still Polaris, then the counter isn't doing its job. 

So far, it sounds like he hasn't had any impact.  I suspect that's because while Morbius can beat Polaris, Polaris can beat Morbius (and also everything else).  If he was a true counter, he'd beat Polaris whether he was on offense or defense.

There are two sides to that though, as Anon stated. Even if Morbius is an effective counter, which I think he is but as Bad points out few players actually have him champed yet, there are few characters that have the speed of Polaris. All that do are in 5* territory. If they nerf Polaris there will be fewer players able to challenge SCL9 in PvE and able to challenge 75 wins in PvP. Most running with Polaris do so because she helps players hit their goals to speed up the progression of their roster. The solution would be to let power creep in and add a character or two that can complete with Polaris speed but active hurts if you have SAP tiles.

Morbius may not be much of deterrent of defense, but then few characters are. No one in 4* land is, not even Polaris. I happily target all the meta teams as they all have counters. The only time I skip is if they are offering low points or I get targeted by champed hulkyoke after I break MMR. Really, if Polaris targets Morbius that is an AI problem. 

Right, I mean, you're making the argument that a Polaris nerf would be bad, which is not the argument I'm making at all.  I'm saying they will nerf her. 

I'd actually rather they didn't, because it makes PvP more difficult for 5* players.  But they targeted her pretty specifically with a counter and it hasn't impacted her usage at all.  I don't expect them to just give up.  Maybe they'll try another counter first or something, but I don't think she is actually counter-able.

“They will nerf her”… source?

3* Strange, 4* Rocket and Groot, and 5* Okoye have reigned supreme for literal YEARS at the top of the usage charts and they have not been nerfed at all. Not even a hint of a nerf. What do all three have in common ASIDE from being over-used? They speed the game up more than any other character in their tier (which is why they are overused). You know what else they have in common? People love them. Aside from complaints around lack of diversity, you see very few complaints about these glass cannon offensive characters. You don’t get the Gambit/Bishop broken complaints every thread, therefore they remain untouched. Polaris is in the “bestest/fastest option” camp. She’s not in the broken camp. Because of the fact that most appreciate the ways in which she speeds up the game on offense and improves overall quality of life, my guess is she won’t be nerfed. At most, maybe they’ll code the game so she doesn’t make specials mid-cascade or some other sweeping change that impacts her (like they did with match 4s and repeaters), but nothing directly targeting her ala Bishop. 

Sabretooth is an excellent RNG counter (also BSSM before him), and he didn’t effect Rocket’s usage. I’m also seeing no shortage of Hulkoye, even though Wanda (and Onslaught before her) is now a thing. I’m glad Polaris has her “Sabretooth/Wanda” in the form of Morbius, but just like Grocket, she likely won’t get nerfed. You know what bumped Rocket to #2 on the usage charts? Polaris! The release of an even better #1.  Her reign will likely continue until the developers make an even more powerful #1 option. As long as people aren’t complaining too loudly, I’m guessing they are patting themselves on the back for making a character people of all tiers enjoy so much. 

shardwick

I've been seeing Morbius pop up more often, usually as a third in Shield Sim with a team like Hulkoye. I like to use him with Apoc and Thor against BRB teams to get rid of special tiles.

LavaManLee

I'm well into 5* land and still find the fastest combination in a lot of PVE nodes to be Gritty/Polaris.  That's two four stars I use.  Why?  They are fast.  Very fast.  And I don't have to use any health packs either like I would if I used a team with 5hanos.

Would I ever take that team into PVP?  Not a chance.  Do I use Polaris in PVP?  Sure, while climbing with BRBitty but if I leave that team out without shielding it is generally a "come and get me" sign.

Point is, Polaris is good but no means any where near as painful as Bishop or Worthy were, pre-nerf.

entrailbucket

Daredevil217 said:

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

Ugh. I don’t know if I can handle the grind without Polaris, but this is the second time I heard rumours of an upcoming nerf. Hopefully the rumours are overblown and Morbius does his tinykitty job! Hell, I would much rather they put out a 5* version of Morbius then see her nerfed to Bishop levels. 

The good thing about this is that you can objectively evaluate whether or not Morbius is "doing his job." If Polaris starts showing up less, then he's working.  If every team is still Polaris, then the counter isn't doing its job. 

So far, it sounds like he hasn't had any impact.  I suspect that's because while Morbius can beat Polaris, Polaris can beat Morbius (and also everything else).  If he was a true counter, he'd beat Polaris whether he was on offense or defense.

There are two sides to that though, as Anon stated. Even if Morbius is an effective counter, which I think he is but as Bad points out few players actually have him champed yet, there are few characters that have the speed of Polaris. All that do are in 5* territory. If they nerf Polaris there will be fewer players able to challenge SCL9 in PvE and able to challenge 75 wins in PvP. Most running with Polaris do so because she helps players hit their goals to speed up the progression of their roster. The solution would be to let power creep in and add a character or two that can complete with Polaris speed but active hurts if you have SAP tiles.

Morbius may not be much of deterrent of defense, but then few characters are. No one in 4* land is, not even Polaris. I happily target all the meta teams as they all have counters. The only time I skip is if they are offering low points or I get targeted by champed hulkyoke after I break MMR. Really, if Polaris targets Morbius that is an AI problem. 

Right, I mean, you're making the argument that a Polaris nerf would be bad, which is not the argument I'm making at all.  I'm saying they will nerf her. 

I'd actually rather they didn't, because it makes PvP more difficult for 5* players.  But they targeted her pretty specifically with a counter and it hasn't impacted her usage at all.  I don't expect them to just give up.  Maybe they'll try another counter first or something, but I don't think she is actually counter-able.

“They will nerf her”… source?

3* Strange, 4* Rocket and Groot, and 5* Okoye have reigned supreme for literal YEARS at the top of the usage charts and they have not been nerfed at all. Not even a hint of a nerf. What do all three have in common ASIDE from being over-used? They speed the game up more than any other character in their tier (which is why they are overused). You know what else they have in common? People love them. Aside from complaints around lack of diversity, you see very few complaints about these glass cannon offensive characters. You don’t get the Gambit/Bishop broken complaints every thread, therefore they remain untouched. Polaris is in the “bestest/fastest option” camp. She’s not in the broken camp. Because of the fact that most appreciate the ways in which she speeds up the game on offense and improves overall quality of life, my guess is she won’t be nerfed. At most, maybe they’ll code the game so she doesn’t make specials mid-cascade or some other sweeping change that impacts her (like they did with match 4s and repeaters), but nothing directly targeting her ala Bishop. 

Sabretooth is an excellent RNG counter (also BSSM before him), and he didn’t effect Rocket’s usage. I’m also seeing no shortage of Hulkoye, even though Wanda (and Onslaught before her) is now a thing. I’m glad Polaris has her “Sabretooth/Wanda” in the form of Morbius, but just like Grocket, she likely won’t get nerfed. You know what bumped Rocket to #2 on the usage charts? Polaris! The release of an even better #1.  Her reign will likely continue until the developers make an even more powerful #1 option. As long as people aren’t complaining too loudly, I’m guessing they are patting themselves on the back for making a character people of all tiers enjoy so much. 

As the author of a thread titled "Please nerf 5* Gambit" years ago (look it up!), it's revisionist history to say that lots of people complained about Gambit.  People loved Gambit.  The very few people who complained about him got absolutely *torched* by the critical mass of players who used him because he was the fastest and best.  Sound familiar? 

Before they nerfed him people asked for counters, and they provided a few, but nothing moved the needle.  Sound familiar?

I think the fact that Wanda exists, clearly targets Okoye, and clearly has zero impact on Okoye's use, is possibly an indicator of future plans there as well.

Sekilicious

HoundofShadow said:

I don't think there's any point in having a 4* equivalent of Okoye. Let's use Nico Minoru vs Kitty as an example.

My point was more adding someone who influences speed without using special tiles. The reason Polaris is everywhere is because she is insanely fast and punches up. Someone insanely fast, who punches up, but hurts when using SAP tiles would help with the Polaris meta more than Morbius would, even if she was slightly slower than Polaris. 

Sekilicious

entrailbucket said:

I think the fact that Wanda exists, clearly targets Okoye, and clearly has zero impact on Okoye's use, is possibly an indicator of future plans there as well.

The fact most people haven’t broken their hordes so they can avoid Sighclops again points to the fact the release of the counter hasn’t even had a chance to take affect. Still, nerfing a character they featured in several stores that encouraged people to spend on seems like a bad business model.

entrailbucket

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

I think the fact that Wanda exists, clearly targets Okoye, and clearly has zero impact on Okoye's use, is possibly an indicator of future plans there as well.

The fact most people haven’t broken their hordes so they can avoid Sighclops again points to the fact the release of the counter hasn’t even had a chance to take affect. Still, nerfing a character they featured in several stores that encouraged people to spend on seems like a bad business model.

Edit: fixed bizarre wording, elaborated.

Several people that I know personally spent a lot of real money whaling Gambit, and many of them spent more than $10,000 on him.  I heard reports as high as $20,000 in that one store. 

None of those players got a refund when he was nerfed, mostly they just quit.  The game survived.

Sekilicious

He was featured in one store though, not one or two per year for 3 to 4 years. 

Bergen

the point of counters are "countering". many stuff nerfed because game developers failed us, they failed to balance counter speed/costs. Counter teams with 1/10 th the speed of an average fast team will not be played because you will get lots of hits at that time, or if you need 2 health packs you wont last long...

4* land is the most balanced tier. to counter polaris you dont need polaris, but polaris is good second or third, if speed goes you pick her, and speed does matter, and that also means one team will fare better than the rest because someone will need to be the fastest in a bunch, and on average 4* teams polaris teams tend to be fastest.

in PVP you will get matched with anyone regardless of scl and if you have good enough points they will hit you (you are juicy target after 800 and will get hardly hit by anyone in succession before 800 @ scl10) , observe and learn.

if you are last minute player; you basically want to get in to a slot with least players to get good placement rewards and also want to get good progression rewards in busiest minutes, and then complain about better rosters... well that is not constructive, i dont think crippling the game to a point where only your roster/play style/taste makes sense is not a good option, whether you are new player veteran or something in between...

and no they will not nefr okoye,polaris or any other meta chars from here on... forget it... we want better capable teams, chars, we want meta teams a moving progressing target not a set back on your hoard/money/time, we want good progression design... so they better get their act together and release relevant meta changers...

and may be we should stop bumping irrelevant nerf something i dont have-want-despise style posts...

ohh i know i should post "bump polaris" topic:

hey devs. i realy like polaris, her green .... and the speed of that thing, but if you can; you nerf her counters esspecaily morbius and that saber is an eye soar, with th4nos. so she will be even faster and i will get hit less. while doing it a bump on her hp would also be nice, so she doesnt die that fast when countering 5* meta chars. please do that so i can have better taste of her. btw you need to nerf her when i get enough 5* meta champs...

entrailbucket said:

Several people that I know personally spent a lot of real money whaling Gambit, and many of them spent more than $10,000 on him.  I heard reports as high as $20,000 in that one store. 

None of those players got a refund when he was nerfed, mostly they just quit.  The game survived.

btw if you think you would do business on "game will survive! to hell with the !whales(spenders)!" logic i am pretty sure you wont be pulling that gold thought train of yours that many times before really not surviving, if devs were to make better design choices (one char that doesnt need any one to work and also without counters), they would be earning more money and we would be getting better ui design now...

entrailbucket

The good thing about predictions is that they either come true or they don't. 

Based on what I've seen in many years of playing this game and watching the meta evolve, I predict that Polaris is headed for a nerf.  I base this prediction on her overall power level, the amount that she's used, and the devs' obvious attempts to address her with counters.  This parallels what's happened with previous characters who were nerfed.   

I might be wrong!  I actually hope I am!  If she's nerfed that is bad for me, because I won't be able to earn a lot of points by repeatedly attacking super weak 4* teams in PvP.

You might disagree with this prediction!  That's great!  We'll all get to find out what actually happens.

Chrynos1989

Anon said:

Chrynos1989 said:

she’s bishop level op

Yeah.... No

That part was actually sarcasm
i can’t be serious in this forums anymore

Bad

entrailbucket said:

I think the fact that Wanda exists, clearly targets Okoye, and clearly has zero impact on Okoye's use, is possibly an indicator of future plans there as well.

I think you are speeding things at quite a huge pace. Surely you will have wanda champed. Congrat! Still I need 5 covers for her, playing a lot and shargeting and pulling for her. Relax and look other players! A 5* having been released 15 April it could be in the hands of a lot of players (hulkoye users) but not in the hands of all those who would want to use her already.
Morbius was released 22 march and a 4* needs more time for others players shargeting him and champing him.
Still I used my champed morbius in BOP for to climb up and he performed excellent, he let poor kitty and medusa absolutely defenseless, so he is great without a doubt.
And of course he counters polaris pretty well too.
And I saw others players using him, along with wanda. 

DAZ0273

I am using Morbius in BOP and he ripped through multiple problematic special tile spammers. Mine is at 5/3/3 so the black power is maxed which helps. He might not offer much on defence but as his power removed rather than matches or destroys it is a decent option and sidesteps Polaris, BRB, etc. The problem will be that you won't be able to run two 4* in normal PvP against 5s if you want to use Polaris, so he might not be as widely used as hoped.

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

The good thing about predictions is that they either come true or they don't. 

Based on what I've seen in many years of playing this game and watching the meta evolve, I predict that Polaris is headed for a nerf.  I base this prediction on her overall power level, the amount that she's used, and the devs' obvious attempts to address her with counters.  This parallels what's happened with previous characters who were nerfed.   

I might be wrong!  I actually hope I am!  If she's nerfed that is bad for me, because I won't be able to earn a lot of points by repeatedly attacking super weak 4* teams in PvP.

You might disagree with this prediction!  That's great!  We'll all get to find out what actually happens.

You were basing your “prediction” on usage stats. Because Morbius IS a hard counter for Polaris and hasn’t impacted her usage. 

You are basing your theory on being a wise elder who has seen trends over the course of the game. Yet you ignore the YEARS of usage dominance by Grocket, Strange, Okoye. Oh wait… you think Okoye is getting nerfed TOO now YEARS later if Wanda doesn’t impact usage? That tells me all I need to know. 

“Predictions” are fine. But I will point out when one cherry picks history. 

entrailbucket

Daredevil217 said:

entrailbucket said:

The good thing about predictions is that they either come true or they don't. 

Based on what I've seen in many years of playing this game and watching the meta evolve, I predict that Polaris is headed for a nerf.  I base this prediction on her overall power level, the amount that she's used, and the devs' obvious attempts to address her with counters.  This parallels what's happened with previous characters who were nerfed.   

I might be wrong!  I actually hope I am!  If she's nerfed that is bad for me, because I won't be able to earn a lot of points by repeatedly attacking super weak 4* teams in PvP.

You might disagree with this prediction!  That's great!  We'll all get to find out what actually happens.

You were basing your “prediction” on usage stats. Because Morbius IS a hard counter for Polaris and hasn’t impacted her usage. 

You are basing your theory on being a wise elder who has seen trends over the course of the game. Yet you ignore the YEARS of usage dominance by Grocket, Strange, Okoye. Oh wait… you think Okoye is getting nerfed TOO now YEARS later if Wanda doesn’t impact usage? That tells me all I need to know. 

“Predictions” are fine. But I will point out when one cherry picks history. 

I guess...we'll all get to find out what actually happens? 

I'm a little confused about what's going on here.  If you don't think Polaris (or Okoye, or anyone else) is getting changed, why would you care about what anyone else thinks, especially someone who's so obviously wrong?

Warbringa

I loved using Morbius in BoP PvP, just devastated Polaris/BRB teams. First chance I had to use him champed really.   Now I know BoP is not a fair event to judge since no one will have a 550 Morbius outside of it (but no one will have a 550 Polaris either).  What I can say was that outside of the damage and health differences in BoP, Morbius did effectively control Polaris/BRB special tiles easily and I took very little damage.  My team was Colossus/Chavez/Morbius to go against all the 550 Polaris/BRB/(usually Kitty 3rd or Apocalypse) teams.