Nerf Okoye

Rosraf

Taganov said:

All they really have to do in PvP to "solve" the issue is add an exhaustion/cool down attribute to non-essential characters. This way you can't play the same characters in the same event ad nauseam. Either way, trying to address systemic issues like the speed meta with band aid fixes like nerfing booster characters seems futile.

Just nah. I would be super pissed if I put all this time into leveling characters and then couldn't use them. 

Rosraf

Phumade said:

if you really want more people to play pvp, and thus make it easier for you to get 1200, ask for more milestone quests.  Like win 3 matches in a row, get 2 defensive wins etc.  in fact I guarantee the easiest way to ensure people get to 1200 (which I have aALWAYS endorsed) is to have a pvp daily quest that requires a win with a team that has 3 different rareities.

Much better solution.  Optional rewards for pursuing alternative pvp approaches. That would benefit everyone.  

And if you really want to increase PVP play and points: 10 wins in a row = free shield (will never happe). 

thedarkphoenix

Phumade said:

Bad said:

All those ideas in the end would drive to less people playing pvp. On the event nefarious foes, my apocalypse was buffed along all villains. Reward was a good classic, I dont remember wich one. Well, I almost didnt saw any okoye. But people were not much playing because of that. It was pretty hard to win 1200 points and I got them at 60 wins, I think.
Recently is something like that. People play to a certain point. But to 1000 until 1200 points only are playing hulkoye teams.
Its a meta pretty taxing so its understable.
Now, all those play details wont change that all what I said about her is true, and its needed an okoye level 480 at least and a baby champed one for playing with her.
I understand that some vet players feeling confortable with her are not bothered at all.
P.S: same issue will happen on time to new YJ. Devs obstinately put on their skill they need to be tanking, and time will render them unable to.

People don’t bother to front run points in NEF foes because it’s off season and don’t personally benefit for running up points.

if you really want more people to play pvp, and thus make it easier for you to get 1200, ask for more milestone quests.  Like win 3 matches in a row, get 2 defensive wins etc.  in fact I guarantee the easiest way to ensure people get to 1200 (which I have aALWAYS endorsed) is to have a pvp daily quest that requires a win with a team that has 3 different rareities.

without a doubt, targeted quests did more for pvp engagement then any form of char level or new char introductions.

a real shame that the quests are largely finished for experienced and they are returning to account maintenance levels of play.  Just enough to keep rostering everything, without playing xtra matches

This is the way,

Miles stones, events. and dailies add a great reason for people to attack pvp in a different light. Get 1200 points without shielding/ play an event without shielding. Play event without using any 5's, play event without using any 4's....etc etc

Manafee

Hi everybody

There are some really good points to keep pvp attractive.
In Addition i would suggest to Split pvp into a standard and a wild mode just like hearthstone. In standard Mode the 5*s should rotate after a while...say once in a year or more often. This would keep the meta fresh and there would be no need of a nerf discussion anymore. In wild anything goes. In pve meanwhile all the chars could stay 

thedarkphoenix

Manafee said:

Hi everybody

There are some really good points to keep pvp attractive.
In Addition i would suggest to Split pvp into a standard and a wild mode just like hearthstone. In standard Mode the 5*s should rotate after a while...say once in a year or more often. This would keep the meta fresh and there would be no need of a nerf discussion anymore. In wild anything goes. In pve meanwhile all the chars could stay 

This isn't a terrible idea either, retiring characters every year but keeping a wild and standard mode would be cool.

In addition to that, a wild or "unlimited mode" could allow for rewards of older 5's but not newer ones. Meaning that Rewards and and token's could be classic's only. This is also where they can add 5 pvp events regularly like a lot of people have requested. 

Also there could sell "classic" packs, and tokens in bundles much like now so no missing out on money.


This would be for PVP only and I think is a great idea, it would make it that old characters aren't rotated out to uselessness in a PVP setting and PVE stays the exact same.


@LakeStone @ic@IceIX This ever been seriously considered?  Seems like it would be an awesome idea and would fit well with milestones!

Kolence

How are older characters (5-star especially) not rotated out to uselessness with the way power creep functions?
Instead of leaving me a choice to use older chars, if I want to, you'd have me use only the new ones, like it already is, only even more - not just at the higher scores, fighting for a better placement. 
I've been playing and grinding a long time to have all my shinies, than you very much.

SnowcaTT

Another Okoye shown in the new announcement (https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/84374/new-in-r219-recruit-page-ui-revamp)

Someone mentioned there were 6 okoye vaults/offers last year and no BRB ones? Tell me that trend continuing doesn't point to Okoye nerf.

How many have Okoye as their top character, and the Okoye feeder as the bonus hero? It's quickly become the 'only' way to compete in PVE, and as a bonus it allows you to also compete in PVP. With that, vets will have a huge advantage over any new players forever....since the new players have to hoard until Okoye in vaults. I know lots of long-time vets that do that anyway!

When it's all one character, it's time for that character to go. However, we saw what happens when that happens - with Evergreen, it will be 100% BRB. And when it was the no-Okoye no-BRB event it was almost 100% carnage. There will always be a 'top' character. But you could probably argue BRB/Carnage wouldn't also be top in the PVE boards.

SnowcaTT

I challenge you all to go and line up who is on the top of your LB, both PVP and PVE. No names, let's follow forum rules.

Currently, here's my slice 3 CL10 pve that ends today:
1) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
2) 550 Okoye (top character by 50 levels)
3) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
4) 550 Okoye (top character by 45 levels)
5) 550 Okoye (top character by 38 levels)

6) 548 Okoye (top character by 13 levels)
7) 508 Okoye (top character by 21 levels)
8) 550 Okoye (top character by 12 levels)
9) 550 Okoye (top charcater by 66 levels)
10) 501 Okoye (top character by 23 levels)
11) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
12) 520 Okoye (4th biggest character)
13) 550 Okoye (top character by 63 levels)
14) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
15) 520 Okoye (top character by 15 levels)
16) 490 Okoye (top character by 11 levels)
17) 506 Okoye (top character by 16 levels)

....Notice a trend?

Here's my PVP CL10 that ended yesterday
1) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
2) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
3) 550 Okoye (top character by 24 levels)
4) 507 Okoye (3rd biggest character)
5) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
6) 499 Okoye (7th biggest character)
7) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
8) 509 Okoye (top character by 28 levels)

I'm almost always CL10, lower CL's might change this outlook - but I've seen leaderboards posted from lower CL's, and it's often fatty okoyes that moved down so they didn't have to compete with the fattest okoyes. I move slices a fair bit - and this isn't unusual at all, almost all Okoye at the top, of both PVP and PVE.

BriMan2222

SnowcaTT said:

I challenge you all to go and line up who is on the top of your LB, both PVP and PVE. No names, let's follow forum rules.

Currently, here's my slice 3 CL10 pve that ends today:
1) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
2) 550 Okoye (top character by 50 levels)
3) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
4) 550 Okoye (top character by 45 levels)
5) 550 Okoye (top character by 38 levels)

6) 548 Okoye (top character by 13 levels)
7) 508 Okoye (top character by 21 levels)
8) 550 Okoye (top character by 12 levels)
9) 550 Okoye (top charcater by 66 levels)
10) 501 Okoye (top character by 23 levels)
11) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
12) 520 Okoye (4th biggest character)
13) 550 Okoye (top character by 63 levels)
14) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
15) 520 Okoye (top character by 15 levels)
16) 490 Okoye (top character by 11 levels)
17) 506 Okoye (top character by 16 levels)

....Notice a trend?

Here's my PVP CL10 that ended yesterday
1) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
2) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
3) 550 Okoye (top character by 24 levels)
4) 507 Okoye (3rd biggest character)
5) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
6) 499 Okoye (7th biggest character)
7) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
8) 509 Okoye (top character by 28 levels)

I'm almost always CL10, lower CL's might change this outlook - but I've seen leaderboards posted from lower CL's, and it's often fatty okoyes that moved down so they didn't have to compete with the fattest okoyes. I move slices a fair bit - and this isn't unusual at all, almost all Okoye at the top, of both PVP and PVE.

Ok, I'll play

PVE slc 10 just ended about 30 min ago
1) 550 okoye ( 4 550 chars)
2) 549 okoye (okoye is highest)
3) 550 okoye (okoye is highest)
4) 492 okoye (okoye is 2nd highest)
5) 476 okoye (545 apocalypse is highest, okoye is 9th)
6) 536 okoye (okoye is highest)
7) 489 okoye ( okoye is highest)
8) 516 okoye (okoye is highest)
9) 514 okoye (okoye is highest)
10)  507 okoye (highest is 547 JJ, okoye is third highest)
11) 534 okoye (okoye is highest)
12)  502 okoye ( 550 kitty is highest, okoye second)
13) 473 okoye (478 JJ highest, okoye second)
14) 467 okoye (okoye is highest)
15) 503 okoye (okoye is highest)
16) 501 okoye (okoye is highest)
17) 483 okoye (483 brb is highest, okoye third)
18) 546 okoye ( okoye is 8th highest after 550's)
19) 500 okoye (okoye is highest)
20) 478 okoye (481 oml is highest, okoye second)



PVP scl 10 ended yesterday
1) 550 okoye (tied for highest with 550 thor)
2) 532 okoye (okoye is highest char)
3) 550 okoye ( tied for highest with jessica jones)
4) 550 okoye (okoye is highest char)
5) 498 okoye (okoye is highest char)
6) 525 okoye (550 thor is highest, okoye is 5th highest char)
7) 518 okoye (okoye is highest char)
8) 483 okoye (550 oml is highest char, okoye is 29th highest char)
9) Myself 465 okoye (highest char is 489 apocalypse, Okoye is third highest char)
10) 514 okoye (okoye is highest char)

I'm always scl 10.  I'm generally able to make top 5 but if not at least top ten.  Most of the top ten is big hulkoye but there are 2 players that sometimes play in my slice that have a 550 apacolypse/500 onslaught and the other has brbitty combo both near 550 who are in top 5 if they play in my slice.

killahKlown

SnowcaTT said:

I challenge you all to go and line up who is on the top of your LB, both PVP and PVE. No names, let's follow forum rules.

Currently, here's my slice 3 CL10 pve that ends today:
1) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
2) 550 Okoye (top character by 50 levels)
3) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
4) 550 Okoye (top character by 45 levels)
5) 550 Okoye (top character by 38 levels)

6) 548 Okoye (top character by 13 levels)
7) 508 Okoye (top character by 21 levels)
8) 550 Okoye (top character by 12 levels)
9) 550 Okoye (top charcater by 66 levels)
10) 501 Okoye (top character by 23 levels)
11) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
12) 520 Okoye (4th biggest character)
13) 550 Okoye (top character by 63 levels)
14) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
15) 520 Okoye (top character by 15 levels)
16) 490 Okoye (top character by 11 levels)
17) 506 Okoye (top character by 16 levels)

....Notice a trend?

Here's my PVP CL10 that ended yesterday
1) 550 Okoye (four 550s)
2) 550 Okoye (three 550s)
3) 550 Okoye (top character by 24 levels)
4) 507 Okoye (3rd biggest character)
5) 543 Okoye (top character by 6 levels)
6) 499 Okoye (7th biggest character)
7) 503 Okoye (top character by 18 levels)
8) 509 Okoye (top character by 28 levels)

I'm almost always CL10, lower CL's might change this outlook - but I've seen leaderboards posted from lower CL's, and it's often fatty okoyes that moved down so they didn't have to compete with the fattest okoyes. I move slices a fair bit - and this isn't unusual at all, almost all Okoye at the top, of both PVP and PVE.

I appreciate the recommendation, but what is the point you are trying to make here?  Are you for or against a good old fashioned okoye nerf?

SourCream

SnowcaTT said:

Another Okoye shown in the new announcement (https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/84374/new-in-r219-recruit-page-ui-revamp)

Someone mentioned there were 6 okoye vaults/offers last year and no BRB ones? Tell me that trend continuing doesn't point to Okoye nerf.

How many have Okoye as their top character, and the Okoye feeder as the bonus hero? It's quickly become the 'only' way to compete in PVE, and as a bonus it allows you to also compete in PVP. With that, vets will have a huge advantage over any new players forever....since the new players have to hoard until Okoye in vaults. I know lots of long-time vets that do that anyway!

When it's all one character, it's time for that character to go. However, we saw what happens when that happens - with Evergreen, it will be 100% BRB. And when it was the no-Okoye no-BRB event it was almost 100% carnage. There will always be a 'top' character. But you could probably argue BRB/Carnage wouldn't also be top in the PVE boards.

I bet you will see things differently if you didn't have a big Apocalypse, Thanos, and Hulk. From PVE standpoint, you can't nerf one and leave the rest alone. In SCL10, nerf Okoye, then Apocalypse will be the new Okoye. Nerf Apocalypse and Okoye, back to SCL09 with Thanos. Nerf Apocalypse, Okoye, and Thanos, to SCL08 with Hulk ?

All in all, not trying to start an argument. Just be careful what you ask for, in a snap, you might be the only one left playing after. As for PVP, Hulk killed it for me. Nothing new can come after him without breaking the game even more. If somehow you manage to figure a new character to solve Hulk, good luck finding another after.

One way to solve Hulk is simply take away the passive stacking with booster, yes Apocalypse too. Why ? Same reason as Thor not having passive stacking. Imagine damage every turn without having to do anything... o wait... water is wet. Maybe take away booster altogether, but running in water is no fun. I don't know where I'm heading with this... Perhaps, the best solution is let it pile on or not play at all.

Bad

Its just as I said, okoye is the third multiplier but its needed a huge investment to play her optimally, then at level 550 she boosts passives to 3000 per TU.
She just needs 1 lucky turn to start her boosts. Apocalypse needs 3 and fire his power, so hulk would start damaging at turn 5.
And no matter how you want to put her, she is the elitist difference only for vet players who can smash throught pvp and pve.
Newcomers players, shargeting her until you had 53 copies of her for to start a chance on this game, baby champing an AoE damager whoever be it.

Michael1957

SnowcaTT said:

Another Okoye shown in the new announcement (https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/84374/new-in-r219-recruit-page-ui-revamp)

Someone mentioned there were 6 okoye vaults/offers last year and no BRB ones? Tell me that trend continuing doesn't point to Okoye nerf.

How many have Okoye as their top character, and the Okoye feeder as the bonus hero? It's quickly become the 'only' way to compete in PVE, and as a bonus it allows you to also compete in PVP. With that, vets will have a huge advantage over any new players forever....since the new players have to hoard until Okoye in vaults. I know lots of long-time vets that do that anyway!

When it's all one character, it's time for that character to go. However, we saw what happens when that happens - with Evergreen, it will be 100% BRB. And when it was the no-Okoye no-BRB event it was almost 100% carnage. There will always be a 'top' character. But you could probably argue BRB/Carnage wouldn't also be top in the PVE boards.

I told all of my alliance to “Forget every other character until you can champ Okoye “.  Even for beginners it took 2 years to do it, but they say it was absolutely worth it. ( A lot of them had it shortened getting about 3 covers when Milestones was introduced) Game time was cut for them 50%. Most are still limited to CL9 but they say it’s absolutely no challenge to blow through every battle . I did this myself as soon as she was introduced as I saw her power as off the chart compared to all the others available. I regret nothing about my path , without her the game would be twice the grind it is, I have had her champed 1 year and I still see no other release that compares to her .

658_2

I play scl 10 slice 5 and in the last couple months the slice has gone from flipping once to twice. I join after my Monday and Friday morning meetings at work, consistently, and at 9am PST, for the first 9 or so months since CL10 opened up the count was almost always between 0 and 200; occasionally I’d even end up in the first bracket. In the last couple months it’s always already flipped at 9am and is usually at least in the 300s when I join, but often much higher. *CL10 engagement is way up*. The devs did a great job building that, with 3/2, many Okoye stores and Apoc. Why would they now nerf the most important character to CL10 and mess with that engagement?

HoundofShadow

Engagement is up because they reduce the number of clears and grind from 4/3 to 3/2. I doubt it has anything to do with Okoye and Apocalypse. Besides, even without Okoye and Apocalypse, I can clear SCL 10 in ~35 minutes now, compared to 50-60 minutes before the reduction of clear.

Again, as long as Okoye is not nerfed, most other 5* released will be considered not good enough.

HoundofShadow

I don't know why it takes you an hour even with the reduction in clear, unless you include grind as well. All you need are BRB, Kitty and Polaris. It will be slightly longer for those really difficult nodes, but for most, it's pretty quick. 

LavaManLee

Since getting Apoc, I rarely use Okoye in SCL10 PVE unless she is boosted.  For non-tile movers it is always Gritty/Polaris.  For tile movers it is Apoc/5Hor/Boosted or Apoc/5Hor/Heimdall.  Takes about 35-40 minutes to full clear first three, depending on event.  I've tried 5Hanos for the easy rounds but it just seems to take longer than Gritty/Polaris.

ThaRoadWarrior

Seems like some of y'all may have gotten your wish; I saw someone in the patch notes thread saying Okoye's yellow can no longer be fired when she's at full health (not an official patch note)

*Edit* - I got the update, and was able to fire Okoye's yellow off at full health on 2 different nodes in Infinite Pursuit, so this may be misinformation.

SnowcaTT

658_2 said:

I play scl 10 slice 5 and in the last couple months the slice has gone from flipping once to twice. I join after my Monday and Friday morning meetings at work, consistently, and at 9am PST, for the first 9 or so months since CL10 opened up the count was almost always between 0 and 200; occasionally I’d even end up in the first bracket. In the last couple months it’s always already flipped at 9am and is usually at least in the 300s when I join, but often much higher. *CL10 engagement is way up*. The devs did a great job building that, with 3/2, many Okoye stores and Apoc. Why would they now nerf the most important character to CL10 and mess with that engagement?

I mean....the other argument is "why should there be only one character that makes CL10 possible?"

And the corollaries:

"Why is CL10 so difficult?"
"Why are more characters not released that make CL10 possible?"
"Why aren't all characters buffed to make CL10 possible?"

"Why isn't the one character that makes CL10 possible nerfed, then CL10 difficulty could be lowered?"

Zalasta

I only play PvE with a roster of 18 champed 5 stars, and Okoye is not among them. None of my 5 stars are higher than 460. I have no issue getting through CL10 with my roster, though sometimes can't do three clears of the hard green mission. My two go to teams are Gritty/Polaris, and Apoc/Thor/Onslaught. I find them to generally be pretty fast. I can't imagine steamrolling CL10 with a level 550 team.  

My 2/1/0 Okoye is next on my list to prioritize, just to see what all of the fuss is about. Mostly I think people are complaining about how quickly they can get through an event for placement rewards, but I see people complaining about not being able to get through CL10 without Okoye, which is ridiculous. CL10 should be difficult. As it is, it's still not really a challenge for level 550 rosters.