Nerf Okoye

Bad

Obviously on the 4* tier any of my tradeoffs could be nerfs, as she will be always in front.
On the 5* tier, where she belongs, are minimal hindrances for to fly higher.

Anon

Kolence said:

Anon said:

Bad said:

Another time Im saying if you read my suggestion, Im not nerfing. 

All 3 of your suggestions are nerfs.

 her boost activates when she has like 4 TU.

She boosts slower than before. That is a nerf.

 her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU

Boosting less than it is now. That is a nerf.

she loses 1 TU each time she boosts a power dealing more than 5000 damage.

She's losing TU whenever the power does what its supposed to do. That is a nerf.

What does "what it is supposed to do" mean?
We're also supposed to collect AP, then spend it on a power to do damage.
Yet, Okoye collects TU AP and sits on it in order to do damage how many times for the rest of the match? 
Of course it would be a nerf. That's what this thread is about.
I just don't think it would be as big a nerf as you might think at a quick glance. Except maybe to auto damage passives, like Medusa's, iHulk's or Polaris'. But that would kinda be the point...

Bad is saying his suggested tweaks aren't nerfs. That's what I was pointing out. How big or small of a nerf they are is irrelevant. They're still nerfs. That was my whole point.

iamxzo

if she were to be reworked I would suggest to buff her black damage, but remove perk for it to work on passive skills, so she will still be super strong but not that broken with free aoe champs, also if she is to be considered support character I would suggest swapping self heal to team heal I dont see a single reason for her to have self heal, healing others can be justified by motivating or whatever

In my opinion, she should not be nerfed, she needs a proper rework, at the end of the day she aint a god in mcu so yea.. let her throw that spears but chill out with craziness

MegaBee

Okoye is fine as is. She's strong on offense, not so much on defense. Yes, she's got a true heal, but that can be overcome. Just leave her in the back and deal with her last.

grunth13

Just get rid of her healing.  No where in the Marvel cannon is she a healer.  Once people have to buy health packs for her, people will use her less.

MegaBee

grunth13 said:

Just get rid of her healing.  No where in the Marvel cannon is she a healer.  Once people have to buy health packs for her, people will use her less.

No, thank you.

Beefhammer69

DyingLegend said:

Okoye is very easy to manage. Even with Ihulk, just stun lock him, problem solved.

Oh, sure, why didn’t we ever think of that before? And who exactly are you pulling off this incredible stun-lock with? 

DyingLegend

Beefhammer69 said:

DyingLegend said:

Okoye is very easy to manage. Even with Ihulk, just stun lock him, problem solved.

Oh, sure, why didn’t we ever think of that before? And who exactly are you pulling off this incredible stun-lock with? 

Bobby/Apoc/ Prof X works all the time for me

Side note : I think Bobby is overlooked,  I find him very useful.  His green combined with Apocs yellow is a hard hitting combo. 

KGB

DyingLegend said:

Beefhammer69 said:

DyingLegend said:

Okoye is very easy to manage. Even with Ihulk, just stun lock him, problem solved.

Oh, sure, why didn’t we ever think of that before? And who exactly are you pulling off this incredible stun-lock with? 

Bobby/Apoc/ Prof X works all the time for me

Side note : I think Bobby is overlooked,  I find him very useful.  His green combined with Apocs yellow is a hard hitting combo. 

Pretty sure everyone is looking for help in pick 2 PvP where you face Hulkoye. There you can't bring Bobby unless you are dropping Apoc or Prof$.

KGB

DyingLegend

KGB said:

DyingLegend said:

Beefhammer69 said:

DyingLegend said:

Okoye is very easy to manage. Even with Ihulk, just stun lock him, problem solved.

Oh, sure, why didn’t we ever think of that before? And who exactly are you pulling off this incredible stun-lock with? 

Bobby/Apoc/ Prof X works all the time for me

Side note : I think Bobby is overlooked,  I find him very useful.  His green combined with Apocs yellow is a hard hitting combo. 

Pretty sure everyone is looking for help in pick 2 PvP where you face Hulkoye. There you can't bring Bobby unless you are dropping Apoc or Prof$.

KGB

In the pick two I go with Kitty and BRB. All you need is 6 blue AP to stop Okoye/ Ihulk.

I've also been able to win consistently with Polaris and BRB. Very easy to overload the green tiles on the board with protect tiles and stun ihulk in the first few turns before they get rolling.

ThaRoadWarrior

Both of those strategies have worked for me as well. Also Carbage/Polaris will get you there decently fast. BRB/Kitty is the most reliable, so a 5* tier hard counter exists, but that team is likely completely unbeatable at the 4* tier. I've used Dazzler in there for fun with BRB - her stun will kick off if she's caught in AOE damage, you just need to make sure that Hulk is in front at the start of your next turn. But unless your Dazzler is pretty high leveled, or you're up against weak Okoyes, that isn't super sustainable.

thedarkphoenix

At this point people don't want strong well balanced characters. 

Okoye is kind of proving that point to the devs.

She's not OP alone, and is helpful to her partners 75 percent of the time.

Hard to ask for more from a character.

The problem is people want a direct answer or counter for "problems"  The Dev's could start going down the road of having some what direct counters to characters. I think that would make the game overall more interesting, but I assume they don't do it for a reason. They never have and probably never will, and when they have attempted it, it's always been very mild counters that basically are useless.


They could easily make a character that steals team up tiles and does damage based on how much a player has, and work around that. I think in recent years they kind of embrace a certain overall meta and then slowly try and shift it.

Like currently I feel like they are trying to slowly shift away from protect, and attack tiles and to charge tiles.


Meta on this game tends to cycle ever year and a half or so, I remember when it was regen and stun, then count down tiles, then charge tiles, then AP control, then special tiles, then jump in front you people  (cap and bishop) now back to special tiles since it really never finished it's run but got cut off by bishop and cap.

Bad

thedarkphoenix said:

.

They could easily make a character that steals team up tiles and does damage based on how much a player has, and work around that. I think in recent years they kind of embrace a certain overall meta and then slowly try and shift it.

That character would be a huge succes. And guess wich team would use it the most? Okoye teams. 

Bishop was nerfed because his sinergy didnt let players to do their play.
Hulkoye teams are on the same boat. When Ihulk changes the board, hyper fast okoye with just a simple 3 TU match will crush you next turn.
And you cannot wait for her 3 turns not being in the front and losing TU because she will crush you.
Of course there are a lot of counters, but all of them will suppose a big amount of damage being lucky on the board and a sure loss being not.
Hulkoye teams are everywhere now and the blame is not ihulk who always is baby champed.  The blame is on hyper fast okoye boosting to death AoE.
So, if my suggestion was a slight nerf, is because in no game is posible to rule pvp without even developing further the boosted character. And no new 5* will be better than those 2, at this pace.

ThaRoadWarrior

Bad said:

thedarkphoenix said:

.

They could easily make a character that steals team up tiles and does damage based on how much a player has, and work around that. I think in recent years they kind of embrace a certain overall meta and then slowly try and shift it.

That character would be a huge succes. And guess wich team would use it the most? Okoye teams. 

Bishop was nerfed because his sinergy didnt let players to do their play.
Hulkoye teams are on the same boat. When Ihulk changes the board, hyper fast okoye with just a simple 3 TU match will crush you next turn.
And you cannot wait for her 3 turns not being in the front and losing TU because she will crush you.
Of course there are a lot of counters, but all of them will suppose a big amount of damage being lucky on the board and a sure loss being not.
Hulkoye teams are everywhere now and the blame is not ihulk who always is baby champed.  The blame is on hyper fast okoye boosting to death AoE.
So, if my suggestion was a slight nerf, is because in no game is posible to rule pvp without even developing further the boosted character. And no new 5* will be better than those 2, at this pace.

This logic is flawed - when Juggernaut came out, his passive AOE was explicitly excluded from working with Wakanda Forever and subsequently Apocalypse's Shared Strength damage boost. The same could have been done for Green Door if there was a will to do so. The problem as I mentioned before is the interaction between the characters, and that can be addressed (and in fact has already been addressed with Juggs as mentioned). I would ask you if there are any other Okoye Terror teams besides iHulk if you really think she's the issue and not Hulk. I'd hazard a guess there are not.

The other bit there is if you have the correct team to counter it, in this case Beta Ray Bill and Kitty Pryde, you absolutely can survive that team with no trouble at all assuming level parity. Targeting iHulk first is generally the strategy I prefer, because once you kill him a couple teams, even underleveled or baby champ hulks tank all colors that matter and he continues to kill himself for making matches while you deal with Okoye. 

But if you can't put that combo forward, as I imagine most 4* players can't (and I couldn't until very recently), you won't be able to deal with it reliably. At least not in Pick-2; Nightcrawler doesn't hit hard enough and Quake's damage soak can't scale with Okoye, so your only defense is going to be some kind of basic green tile removal option like C4rnage/Polaris maybe. I could see Rogue being potentially an option assuming her damage reduction works on AOE.

You could shut down that interaction pretty easily with a character who either removes green from the board or drops special tiles on green passively, and you aren't nerfing anyone. Just provide an option to deal with the interaction.

Kolence

This is why Magneto is such a disappointment for me. It's obvious he was meant to counter iHulk somewhat, what with turning green tiles to another color, ability to add special tiles to a chosen color (green to stop Hulk's aoe), even being airborne to avoid aoe. Boosting protect tiles also helps, but in this part I feel he's failed to match the easiness with which Hulk and Okoye can run away in a match, just from that passive board shake. Should have had a way to make protect tile passively too, and he could have been another option with Kitty (instead of BRB) to beat Hulk teams. 

KGB

ThaRoadWarrior said:

But if you can't put that combo forward, as I imagine most 4* players can't (and I couldn't until very recently), you won't be able to deal with it reliably. At least not in Pick-2; Nightcrawler doesn't hit hard enough and Quake's damage soak can't scale with Okoye, so your only defense is going to be some kind of basic green tile removal option like C4rnage/Polaris maybe. I could see Rogue being potentially an option assuming her damage reduction works on AOE.

As a 4* player with most of my roster around L320ish (all my 5* are under leveled)  I never see Hulkoye in my PvP queue. I only see them in retal nodes when I've broken MMR and they can queue me. So I'm not sure 4* players would be seeing this team unless you mean someone just entering 5* land who only has 1-3 5* baby champs.

KGB

Bad

ThaRoadWarrior said:

This logic is flawed - when Juggernaut came out, his passive AOE was explicitly excluded from working with Wakanda Forever and subsequently Apocalypse's Shared Strength damage boost. 

Beta Ray Bill and Kitty Pryde, you absolutely can survive that team with no trouble at all assuming level parity. Targeting iHulk first is generally the strategy I prefer, because once you kill him a couple teams, even underleveled or baby champ hulks tank all colors that matter and he continues to kill himself for making matches while you deal with Okoye. 

I didnt remember that. But apocalypse has a fair boosting system. Should be necessary to nerf any future  passive AoE because of hyper fast okoye? 
Now any way  to hard counter hulkoye teams are anti meta tactics,  hence slower than hyper fast meta.
Your tactic is a creative one, but you are downing a character who will not die for messing okoye boost. Pretty slow.
Britty team is a defensive team which can afford it. Magneto too. And he is labeled as the worst 5* for being slow.

Bzhai

No one was complaining when Thorkoye was meta because they were beatable on defense. So the issue is not with Okoye but iHulk. Nerf iHulk or make better counters, not half-baked nonsense like Magneto.

ThaRoadWarrior

Kolence said:

This is why Magneto is such a disappointment for me. It's obvious he was meant to counter iHulk somewhat, what with turning green tiles to another color, ability to add special tiles to a chosen color (green to stop Hulk's aoe), even being airborne to avoid aoe. Boosting protect tiles also helps, but in this part I feel he's failed to match the easiness with which Hulk and Okoye can run away in a match, just from that passive board shake. Should have had a way to make protect tile passively too, and he could have been another option with Kitty (instead of BRB) to beat Hulk teams. 

We were all saying it in the Magneto thread - if he turned green to yellow every turn he was airborne (ideally even if thrown there by someone else) he'd be just fine as a Hulk counter, but since he only does it on his own liftoff the one time, it's DOA. And unlike Vulture, who can power his own flight to a point while airborne, Magneto goes up, does nothing, and comes down if he's the last man standing and you don't have pre-nerf Bishop levels of blue ap in the bank.

Bad said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

This logic is flawed - when Juggernaut came out, his passive AOE was explicitly excluded from working with Wakanda Forever and subsequently Apocalypse's Shared Strength damage boost. 

Beta Ray Bill and Kitty Pryde, you absolutely can survive that team with no trouble at all assuming level parity. Targeting iHulk first is generally the strategy I prefer, because once you kill him a couple teams, even underleveled or baby champ hulks tank all colors that matter and he continues to kill himself for making matches while you deal with Okoye. 

I didnt remember that. But apocalypse has a fair boosting system. Should be necessary to nerf any future  passive AoE because of hyper fast okoye? 
Now any way  to hard counter hulkoye teams are anti meta tactics,  hence slower than hyper fast meta.
Your tactic is a creative one, but you are downing a character who will not die for messing okoye boost. Pretty slow.
Britty team is a defensive team which can afford it. Magneto too. And he is labeled as the worst 5* for being slow.

"there is no defense against this menace at all" and "I don't like the perfectly viable defense against this menace, so nerf them" are two fundamentally different arguments. Also we're seeing some characters who spit out a high volume of low-damage attacks, but we're also seeing characters like Heimdall who have active mega nukes just like the characters of old. It's selective logic to say that all characters are coming out pre-nerfed.

san

As a HulkOye player myself, I must disagree with the main premise of this thread.

HulkOye is hardly the only meta team around (I'm ooking at you Gritty/BRBitty/Thorkoye/Profslaught), and certainly not impossible to beat (I am terrified of any team with Onslaught TBH and avoid them much more than an opposing Hulkoye team).

As a player who started in the first year of the game (and played in the very first anniversary) I have quite a few characters champed (though no 4*/5* max champed yet). I use Hulkoye for MOST PVE nodes, as this is the only way to be reasonably quick in S10, as opposed to spend the entire day playing (aka grinding) through the nodes. PVP, I get attacked like any other team, and go through my health packs like no tomorrow (I think this is the case wiht most of the Hulkoye teams). 

Hulkoye may be meta, but it is beatable with any number of teams. Previously broken teams (and broken teams now, such as BRBitty) and characters (i.e. Gambit, Bishop) could not be played against at all. Other meta teams/characters will come around (I was around when 4*Wolverine was the ONLY way to play PVP), and will bump this team down the meta list. A nerf simply means that this process occurs quicker, and we get left with even more obsolete characters to keep in the roster (which gets pricier as you keep going). Nerfing has never been the way that problems were solved. 

I suggest that instead we focus on making old characters better instead.