Nerf Okoye

ursopro

it's a new year, let's start right by giving Okoye the good ol' rebalanceroonie!

Michael1957

I’ll give up my Okoye when they recall Polaris . Until then , adapt and survive . The game has 223 characters and therefore approximately 10,793,861 different teams possible ( slightly inflated due to duplicate characters not being able to team up ).  When you’ve tried every option get back to me. 

Bad

Now I will develop further my last suggestion. 
Comparing her with the other 2:

Kitty: she boosts special tiles for 630 level 450 and 738 level 470. She is conditioned for having special tiles from the start if she can ,and xmen allies. As you know if her special tiles matched, her work evaporates.

Apocalypse: he boost powers for 8700 level 450, 10248 level 470. He is really slow needing 7 yellow so on his really best start he can be ready on turn 4. You can say using half Thor, but still he is random( Thor green is another power Im not sure if devs were fully aware when designing it. That is another theme still). Anyway when he has her yellow active, still he needs to gain AP for other powers. Difficult to match his repeaters but its possible.

Okoye: boost powers for 1300 per TU level 450, 1500 level 470. That means without matching anything with TU boost he can boost right from the start. Imposible to destroy her boost unless killing her. And her boost scalates on time. With just one TU match the boost it triples.
The tradeoff exchange was that she needs to be on front or she loses TU. Perhaps they thought with that the tradeoff was ok. The harsh truth is that okoye users are bonded to level her as far as they can for never losing 1 TU. Dot. If anything more, just waiting for the next new 5* with AoE passive for baby champing him and never tanking her.
Like I said that is not fair to the game nor the new good 5* coming that are sized just for their colours not tanking okoye and for their passive damages.
Like I said on a gacha game where power creep is the rule that power design is pretty similar to a shoot in the foot.

My suggestion is to fix her and free her from being on the front. Still she would be the fastest and better multiplier, so the tradeoff compensation could be one of those( or two):

- her boost activates when she has like 4 TU. That would be the recommended
- her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU
-she loses 1 TU each time she boosts a power dealing more than 5000 damage.

Freeing her to be in front could be the best thing happening to her on this year, imo.

Taganov

Outside of Hulkoye, Okoye teams are easily beatable. There are 4+ generations of useless 5s on the bench and your recommendation is to have the Devs spend time & resources to nerf one of the few good ones? To each his own, I suppose.

DAZ0273

Maybe we are misunderstanding the OP and they in fact want us to buff Okoye by giving her a Nerf dart gun? She could use that to soften enemies up before spearing them to death?

Bad

Taganov said:

Outside of Hulkoye, Okoye teams are easily beatable. There are 4+ generations of useless 5s on the bench and your recommendation is to have the Devs spend time & resources to nerf one of the few good ones? To each his own, I suppose.

Okoye is the best multiplier having more impact in the game and with his power design right now is forbidden to newcomers players and also bounds okoye users.
Second, if you have read my suggestion and you understand it , Im not nerfing her.
Third, okoye teams are easily beatable because she needs to be in front.

Polares

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Onslaught drains the board of team up, but doesn’t affect its pool. I’m not sure if any of the other AP targeting powers like Mordo, Nightcrawler, or Yelena will target it

If Onslaught had a slightly better blue power and a much better purple power, he could easily counter Okoye, and you would see him all the time. The problem is that even though he is a decent char, he is not a great char, so people just prefer to use another OkoyeHulk team instead of using him.

Devs MUST remember that counter-meta chars MUST be good on its own, not just as a counter! This is very important, or the counter will not work.

Bad said:

Second, if you have read my suggestion and you understand it , Im not nerfing her.

What do you mean you are nerfing her?!?!?! This is clearly a nerf

Bad said:

- her boost activates when she has like 4 TU. That would be the recommended
- her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU

In what universe are not those two things a nerf ? :P


And again, nerfing Okoye would have an AWFUL impact in scl10 PvE. You might argue that she needs a nerf for PvP (I also disagree, she just needs a good counter), but a nerf to her would ruin PvE for A LOT of people.

ThaRoadWarrior

Okoye isn't any more forbidden to new players than any other vintage 5* - she has a feeder who is decently worth chasing in her own right (shuri), and now with shards, and the serious number of shards available in the Milestone Quests that you'll be earning along the way, I would wager a player who knew they were "supposed" to chase Okoye could do it as fast as any other 5* character they might want. The other thing in her favor, if you're chasing her in shard form, is that she will be immediately useful to you even partially built. I think she's a good scaffold character for aspirational tier climbers personally.

There are other 5*s that aren't super great until fully built, so in my opinion Okoye is "just right." As with calls to nerf other characters, she really isn't the problem if you read between the lines, it's her interaction with iHulk specifically. That interaction is hard-countered at the 5* tier with BRB/Kitty pretty handily in the same way the Kitty/4ocket interaction was hard-countered by Black Suit Spider-Man for so long. But back THEN, before shards and before he was even fed, it actually was kind of a lockout for people who weren't prepared with a hoard for a special store or there for him to have been in latest.

I'd go a step further and say that if Hulkoye were only happening to 5* players, that's totally fine and appropriate, but MMR being what it is, I'm sure it's an unbeatable terror to 4* players or transitioners with the wrong starter 5s, and I do remember those days from the Kitty/Rocket reign of terror over my own 5* transition.

PiMacleod

Just to add noise to the crowd I guess...

I think Onslaught is fine, EXCEPT for his purple.  His purple gives him invisibility, which is actually pretty non-existent in the 5* tier.  You know -- that trick that we like to use 4* Prof, Miles, Legion for?  Yeah... I didn't mention the ::ahem:: INVISIBLE Woman, because it's just not as feasible as one might think it should be...

But you get the point.  The fact that a 5* has an INVIS option is pretty notable.  It just sucks because out of ALL of the people mentioned, his is the LEAST reliable.  The 5* invis guy.... least reliable.  ....huh?!?

Other than that, Onslaught is fine. I think his blue is MORE than stellar.  I'll give my (probably not-so-appreciated) opinion here.

His blue serves TWO (three?) purposes, and it's at a decent price range.  
1 )  He can make match 4s or match 5s more often due to his color-change mechanic with blue.  This is fun for match-4/5 based teams (Prof, Chavez, are most notable).
2 )  The same color change mechanic can help to tone-down what iHulk is doing against your team.  Of course, this doesn't come into play if iHulk's colors aren't the main target -- but when they are, you pretty much neuter his Green Door.
3 )  S/A/P tile punishment.  Mine is champed, but a baby champ.  Not sure what yours looks like, but it does around 5k PER ENEMY SAP TILE thats a part of your target area.  That can be a LOT!!  Of course, BRBitty teams are gonna have defense against this naturally, but at the same time, hit early enough before they are buffed TOO much, and you can probably make a sizable dent in one of them, if not kill one of them!

And this is all to say of ONE ability.  I think that's pretty neat.  It does one complicated thing, but that complicated thing can handle a few different situations depending on how you use it.  I personally like to have him AND Nightcrawler together, so that his blue, and Nightcrawler's Bamf can REALLY rework the color structure of the board.  Prof/Onslaught/Nightcrawler are my Hulkoye beaters for-sure, and it's this flexibility of usage that makes it so.  Nightcrawler never feels the pain of a green door, Onslaught gets rid of those TUs, and the colors can change for NC's Purple, OS's blue, or Prof's purple/purple.  Options!

ThaRoadWarrior

I'll just tack on that I actually see (and use) Onslaught quite often in PVP, but I'm sure that's a function of MMR

HoundofShadow

I see Onslaught often too. He's an autoskip if I see him with champed Prof $.

JFisch

       

Polares

PiMacleod said:

Just to add noise to the crowd I guess...

I think Onslaught is fine, EXCEPT for his purple.  His purple gives him invisibility, which is actually pretty non-existent in the 5* tier.  You know -- that trick that we like to use 4* Prof, Miles, Legion for?  Yeah... I didn't mention the ::ahem:: INVISIBLE Woman, because it's just not as feasible as one might think it should be...

But you get the point.  The fact that a 5* has an INVIS option is pretty notable.  It just sucks because out of ALL of the people mentioned, his is the LEAST reliable.  The 5* invis guy.... least reliable.  ....huh?!?

Other than that, Onslaught is fine. I think his blue is MORE than stellar.  I'll give my (probably not-so-appreciated) opinion here.

His blue serves TWO (three?) purposes, and it's at a decent price range.  
1 )  He can make match 4s or match 5s more often due to his color-change mechanic with blue.  This is fun for match-4/5 based teams (Prof, Chavez, are most notable).
2 )  The same color change mechanic can help to tone-down what iHulk is doing against your team.  Of course, this doesn't come into play if iHulk's colors aren't the main target -- but when they are, you pretty much neuter his Green Door.
3 )  S/A/P tile punishment.  Mine is champed, but a baby champ.  Not sure what yours looks like, but it does around 5k PER ENEMY SAP TILE thats a part of your target area.  That can be a LOT!!  Of course, BRBitty teams are gonna have defense against this naturally, but at the same time, hit early enough before they are buffed TOO much, and you can probably make a sizable dent in one of them, if not kill one of them!

And this is all to say of ONE ability.  I think that's pretty neat.  It does one complicated thing, but that complicated thing can handle a few different situations depending on how you use it.  I personally like to have him AND Nightcrawler together, so that his blue, and Nightcrawler's Bamf can REALLY rework the color structure of the board.  Prof/Onslaught/Nightcrawler are my Hulkoye beaters for-sure, and it's this flexibility of usage that makes it so.  Nightcrawler never feels the pain of a green door, Onslaught gets rid of those TUs, and the colors can change for NC's Purple, OS's blue, or Prof's purple/purple.  Options!

I think Onslaught blue is a good power, but because it tries to do too many things at once, I think it misses the opportunity of being a great power. I think 1) is where most of the use for his blue is, and where it misses the mark a bit. Again, not bad, but if it made cascades a bit more easily, I think it would help him, and make him better.

Purple is just a power that doesnt help him, or any of its use cases at all. This is why I think it is a bad power for this char, it is not about the power, it is about the full kit. Devs do this sometimes, add powers that dont go together with the rest of the kit (just look at 5 Magneto to find a char with a schizophrenic kit released recently).

DyingLegend

Okoye is very easy to manage. Even with Ihulk, just stun lock him, problem solved.

Bad

Polares said:.

Devs MUST remember that counter-meta chars MUST be good on its own, not just as a counter! This is very important, or the counter will not work.

Bad said:

Second, if you have read my suggestion and you understand it , Im not nerfing her.

What do you mean you are nerfing her?!?!?! This is clearly a nerf

Bad said:

- her boost activates when she has like 4 TU. That would be the recommended
- her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU

In what universe are not those two things a nerf ? :P


And again, nerfing Okoye would have an AWFUL impact in scl10 PvE. You might argue that she needs a nerf for PvP (I also disagree, she just needs a good counter), but a nerf to her would ruin PvE for A LOT of people.

Another time Im saying if you read my suggestion, Im not nerfing. 
I suggested 3 possibles tradeoffs, not all the 3.

If you are a okoye user, waiting like 2 turns to activate her boost is not relevant.
Having her not losing 1 TU for not being on the front, if you thought about that, its gold.

ThaRoadWarrior

Having her lose team ups by not being in the front is the balancing mechanism for attackers against defensive Okoye teams because you have control over who is in front when you're on offense. She would almost certainly become more of a defensive problem if she kept it regardless of position.

Bad

Balanced if she activates it at 4 TU.
That would control the hulkoye meta and would open her to the game and all the teams. 

Anon

Bad said:

Another time Im saying if you read my suggestion, Im not nerfing. 

All 3 of your suggestions are nerfs.

 her boost activates when she has like 4 TU.

She boosts slower than before. That is a nerf.

 her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU

Boosting less than it is now. That is a nerf.

she loses 1 TU each time she boosts a power dealing more than 5000 damage.

She's losing TU whenever the power does what its supposed to do. That is a nerf.

Kolence

Anon said:

Bad said:

Another time Im saying if you read my suggestion, Im not nerfing. 

All 3 of your suggestions are nerfs.

 her boost activates when she has like 4 TU.

She boosts slower than before. That is a nerf.

 her boost on  passive damage increases 15% per 1 TU

Boosting less than it is now. That is a nerf.

she loses 1 TU each time she boosts a power dealing more than 5000 damage.

She's losing TU whenever the power does what its supposed to do. That is a nerf.

What does "what it is supposed to do" mean?
We're also supposed to collect AP, then spend it on a power to do damage.
Yet, Okoye collects TU AP and sits on it in order to do damage how many times for the rest of the match? 
Of course it would be a nerf. That's what this thread is about.
I just don't think it would be as big a nerf as you might think at a quick glance. Except maybe to auto damage passives, like Medusa's, iHulk's or Polaris'. But that would kinda be the point...

Steve111

Can we nerf these nerf posts please