Nerf Okoye

Bobdvol

Nerf everyone besides 5*Wasp. If your gonna do it, do it right. ....................................................... .   .     Seriously though, buff the bad ones.

PiMacleod

completely agree with @fight4thedream

Don't misconstrue -- I use Okoye plenty and enjoy what she brings to the table.

But every new character IS and will BE judged by how they can be used with damage boosters, also known as Okoye, Apoc, and/or Kitty.

And @fight4thedream is also correct with the need for counter characters.  Black Suit Spidey is a great example of how there was an answer to the Kitty/Rocket combo... but honestly, it's not REALLY a Kitty counter... it only works against Strike boosting.  Brock is great against protects -- if he wasn't a 4*!!  That health pool doesn't last against 5* play (believe me -- I've tried!).  What Kitty needs is a 5* Kraven -- such a character wouldn't necessarily be useful against Okoye/Apoc teams (since they don't need S/A/P tiles), but would be great against Kitty and/or BRB.

Team Up AP mechanics should be explored more.  Onslaught is great, IMO -- but he's just ONE option, and he's not guaranteed (you need a match 4 or greater, and sometimes, that's not available).  A passive where the enemy TU AP drains by 1 per turn (maybe 2 at 5 covers, and then some calculation, like +1 drain per 6 in a certain color you possess).

I personally still think Leech should be a character, with a passive that makes an enemy passive read as blank.  I've covered this before, and still believe it'd be a welcome addition to many teams, since passive play is entirely meta.  I have my own idea for it written up in the suggestions area -- I won't go into further detail here.

Some might say why hate on Okoye when Apoc clearly exists... I think Apoc is fine as is, because he needs 7 AP to get rolling, and you can get rid of his repeaters to stop the damage boost.  Sure, it's easier said than done, but it's much easier to negate than Okoye.

Again, I want to point out that Okoye isn't necessarily "broken" -- but the existence of Wakanda Forever in its current state is basically a measuring stick for every other character that comes out.  Having more hard counters to such an ability would potentially improve how we look at new characters, since we wouldn't necessarily always assume Okoye is a partner.  Sure, we'd speculate on how new character X would work with Okoye -- but then we'd also know that those plans could go up in smoke on defense, or wouldn't be viable against the hard-counter character.  Currently, Okoye doesn't really have those fears.

EDIT:  I want to add that I don't think that the game needs MORE boosters.  Seriously -- that's the current problem that @fight4thedream addressed earlier.  We currently judge new characters based on how they perform with boosters.  Sure, add a new booster every year or so, in order to make it easier for new players to attain them... that actually makes sense.  But more counter-options AGAINST the boosters themselves would be better.  If plenty of counter options with different flavors exist, then we could start to judge new characters based on synergies and abilities that they bring to the table -- not just based on how they work with boosters.

ThaRoadWarrior

Original Flavor Gambit with his repeater override capability would be an excellent hard counter to Apocalypse's boost. #JustSayin

killahKlown

When OML was nerfed, the reason given was that in their research they found that an inordinate amount of players were using him and they wanted to make sure the other characters were being used.  A balance.  

I think we have surpassed that with Okoye.  Time for a shake up.  Slight nerf would work wonders.  No boost for passive attacks would be perfect. Leave everything else in place 

Cannibalqueen

@PiMacleod - you need a Korg support for Half Thor.  I got a 3* one and just lazily applied it to Thor because of natural synergy.  And turns out you get a 45% chance to start the match with 3 yellow.

which is enormous when paired with Apoc.  I kind of think the reason they abandoned supports is because of the massive web of synergies that start spinning out from them.  Like maybe they realized, woah... this is gonna make everything way too hard to balance.

anyways besides that one of my favorite things about using Thorkoye is that stress about Thor taking any damage.  So I really sit down and calculate matches to avoid any enemy AOE or stun attacks.  It becomes a fun puzzle in itself I think.  I don’t play on the clock tho, only for wins and progression, so maybe that’s part of it.  But I love using Thorkoye because sometimes I am sweating it out halfway through the match and just barely countering each threat to my Half Thor right before it happens.
and the agony of losing my Thor and having to retreat and prep him up again...

bowla33

Nerf the following in order:
1. PX5 - no one can finish a match in one cascade like P$. 
2. BRB - his health, blue power and the ability for it self-generate one of the cheapest powers in game with massive no matter how the protects are eliminated (matched/destroyed/blownup) via any method. Also, his blue should only put down 1cd at a time. 
3. Kitty - should only buff specific tiles, not every special.
4. Thor5 - eliminate his passive AP gain.
5. Polaris - similar issue to BRB. Change her passive to only duplicate tiles when matched.
6. Scorpion - his purple shouldn't created 20AP on a kill shot. Goodbye waves. 
7. Carnage5 - should revert to previous iteration and not place tiles before his 1st turn. 
8. Apoc - power costs need to be increased and yellow should put down less repeaters or require at least 3 for damage add.
9. Okoye down here eventually to limit the amount of boost per TU or the max amount of TU that provides boost.

Polares

killahKlown said:

When OML was nerfed, the reason given was that in their research they found that an inordinate amount of players were using him and they wanted to make sure the other characters were being used.  A balance.  

I think we have surpassed that with Okoye.  Time for a shake up.  Slight nerf would work wonders.  No boost for passive attacks would be perfect. Race everything else in place 

When have Devs slightly nerfed someone? They know how to nerf to the ground, but the last slight nerf we got made Gambit better (until they nerfed him to the ground).

OML was only used by 3/4 players (single yellow cover OMLs using his match damage) and transition players when he was nerfed. After the nerf no one used him anymore.


Okoye should NOT get nerfed, as some other have said she should get counters. Completely agree on that front. ALL meta chars should get counters, so at least the game is a little bit like rock, paper, scissors.

Sadly Devs are also not great about creating counters (remember bear cap as counter for Gambit?). Onslaught is not a bad counter, but he is hindered a bit by his other powers (specially his purple). We need counters that are also great chars on its own, so we can use them safely. This is very important. Using a counter, that will make you a target is not cool.

BlackBoltRocks

bowla33 said:

Nerf the following in order:
1. PX5 - no one can finish a match in one cascade like P$. 
2. BRB - his health, blue power and the ability for it self-generate one of the cheapest powers in game with massive no matter how the protects are eliminated (matched/destroyed/blownup) via any method. Also, his blue should only put down 1cd at a time. 
3. Kitty - should only buff specific tiles, not every special.
4. Thor5 - eliminate his passive AP gain.
5. Polaris - similar issue to BRB. Change her passive to only duplicate tiles when matched.
6. Scorpion - his purple shouldn't created 20AP on a kill shot. Goodbye waves. 
7. Carnage5 - should revert to previous iteration and not place tiles before his 1st turn. 
8. Apoc - power costs need to be increased and yellow should put down less repeaters or require at least 3 for damage add.
9. Okoye down here eventually to limit the amount of boost per TU or the max amount of TU that provides boost.

Almost all of the characters you listed are why CL10 is more than manageable for the players who have them.

No nerfs.

ThaRoadWarrior

This thread makes me sad....nerfing 5*s after all the hard work it takes to roster them in the first place is super disheartening. I'm still a bit salty about Danver5 having spent more time grinding 3 covers for her than I was granted using her prior to her silent nerf.

There should be no dud 5* characters. Every 5* should be designed from the perspective that somebody in this game is going to have just that one character champed, and that is going to be their situation for potentially months if not a year or more based on how long it takes to build them. I've seen a player in Simulator whose only 5* champ upon checking their roster was Wa5p, and I felt so bad for them as I beat them with my own only 5* of Ghost Rider: Robby Reyes (at the time).

ThaRoadWarrior

Polares said:

killahKlown said:

When OML was nerfed, the reason given was that in their research they found that an inordinate amount of players were using him and they wanted to make sure the other characters were being used.  A balance.  

I think we have surpassed that with Okoye.  Time for a shake up.  Slight nerf would work wonders.  No boost for passive attacks would be perfect. Race everything else in place 

Sadly Devs are also not great about creating counters (remember bear cap as counter for Gambit?). Onslaught is not a bad counter, but he is hindered a bit by his other powers (specially his purple). We need counters that are also great chars on its own, so we can use them safely. This is very important. Using a counter, that will make you a target is not cool.

It's a shame Onsluaght's Purple doesn't do any damage. He hits you with his suckerpunch, then just sucks up punches until he gets stomped out a lot of the time.

Cannibalqueen

Onslaught is fun tho.  Sure his purple is useless, but his blue is very puzzley.
whenever I take him and Prof X into a match the appeal is really the gamble that anything at all is going to happen.  It’s a fun option.  Like pulling the arm of a slot machine.  

If Onslaught was ‘too good’, it wouldn’t have the same appeal.

ThaRoadWarrior

I like Onslaught also, and his blue will do some serious damage if there are enough enemy specials in play. But i'm only really taking him out against Hulkoye, a team that relies on no specials, so maybe that's where the impression comes from.

*edit - having just reminded myself that Onslaught's blue does 5600 damage per enemy special caught in the crosshairs, i just took him into snowball fight with Carbage, and it was super fun. 

PiMacleod

Nice @ThaRoadWarrior, I like that use for Onslaught.  I keep using his blue as a match 5 (or at least 4) maker for Prof X to abuse... and it also helps flood/drain the board of a certain color, so that Nightcrawler can use purple to manipulate it some more.

But I'll have to remember that... Carn5ge and Onslaught?  Didn't occur to me... Hmm... maybe Apoc as a 3rd...?  Or is Prof X still the better 3rd there?  hmmm....

Kolence

For my taste: 
- Okoye is fine in pvp, it's iHulk's passive that's too easily proc'd,
- She's a little bit too strong in pve, CL 10 specifically requires her boost, unless you're ok with spending more time on the grind.

Nerfing her the way OML or Gambit were, to ensure they're unusable any longer, is simply wrong and I believe would ultimately just make a lot of players quit, and I don't wish that. 

I'd be interested to see how Okoye would perform if she drained 1 TU AP every time a power (active or passive) triggered her black damage boost. Or even 1 TU AP per enemy taking damage from a power boosted by her.

As for other broken powers (again, for my taste) out there, I'd say her black is not the only one. Maybe not even the worst offender, but probably does have the most impact on CL 10 pve.

I feel like I should add that I've been playing less and less pvp (and I'm not the only long time vet in our alliance to do so and complain about pvp...) and I've also started skipping even full progression in pve before the devs cut the clears to 3. Since then, I've been back to grinding to progression at least, and have mostly been abusing Polaris Okoye whenever possible, unless I feel like just playing or trying something new (and I have the extra time it will take).

PiMacleod

Kolence said:

......
Since then, I've been back to grinding to progression at least, and have mostly been abusing Polaris Okoye whenever possible, unless I feel like just playing or trying something new (and I have the extra time it will take).

Hey @Kolence...  I hear people mention Okoye Polaris instead of Kitty Polaris, and I gotta admit, is it REALLY faster?

Kitty -- nothing needed except for the SAPs to exist.  It works as is.  However, matching away your boosted tiles just to have them reset in strength to a much smaller state is annoying -- but now you have 3 of them per 1 matched/destroyed!

Okoye -- needs TU AP, or nothing happens.  If you're matching TU AP, then you're (usually) not matching/destroying SAPs.  But... at least when you match a SAP, you're not reducing your strength like Kitty does.

So, that's why I'm curious.  I've had no issues with Kitty, and she's basically the same level as my Okoye, but I can't see the sense in using Okoye over her.  Can you shine some light on that for me?  I'd appreciate it.

ThaRoadWarrior

You know, i've switched from 2099 to Polaris to try it, and I've found it to not "feel" as fast. But Polaris issues a slug of damage for having any special on the board at all, as well as initiating a slug of damage every time you match a SAP, so potential damage is very high.

Kolence

@PiMacleod
I've tried them all. Baby champ levels, also. It all works, of course.
Kitty is slower to start and ramp up the boost. Also, requires strikes from the start, or it's even slower and you risk getting strikes out when the board already has too much protects tiles (I keep the blue vial on Polaris and the purple dragon on Kitty), so damage boost is watered down.
OTOH, Kitty does handle goon CDs easier and, with strikes, any match will be boosted on a cascade, not just those with special tiles. In practice though, after a (short) while, most matches do have specials anyaway. And adding BRB as third will give so much more blue and green so you can control the troublesome goon or a tile mover before everything melts away. 
I guess it boils down to Polaris/Okoye still works for essential nodes so it took one of the top 3 saved teams slots 'cause I don't need to scroll those down...   
I do have Grittynaut as third so it's easy to swap Juggs with Polaris on non essential nodes if I feeel like it. (Top one is for trivial nodes.)

PiMacleod

Kolence said:

@PiMacleod
I've tried them all. Baby champ levels, also. It all works, of course.
Kitty is slower to start and ramp up the boost. Also, requires strikes from the start, or it's even slower and you risk getting strikes out when the board already has too much protects tiles (I keep the blue vial on Polaris and the purple dragon on Kitty), so damage boost is watered down.
OTOH, Kitty does handle goon CDs easier and, with strikes, any match will be boosted on a cascade, not just those with special tiles. In practice though, after a (short) while, most matches do have specials anyaway. And adding BRB as third will give so much more blue and green so you can control the troublesome goon or a tile mover before everything melts away. 
I guess it boils down to Polaris/Okoye still works for essential nodes so it took one of the top 3 saved teams slots 'cause I don't need to scroll those down...   
I do have Grittynaut as third so it's easy to swap Juggs with Polaris on non essential nodes if I feeel like it. (Top one is for trivial nodes.)

I'll have to give it a go.  I can see it as a potential pick-two.  I've been using Apoc/Half-Thor for my pick twos... but any new option could be a fun diversion, if not better.

Anon

I'm also in the "Don't nerf anyone" camp. That being said, if the devs were to nerf anyone, I'd nominate iHulk.

Beefhammer69

The real issue with Okoye isn’t even Okoye’s fault. It’s Okoye and Hulk’s passives teamed together. They’re both fine on their own, but turn 1 boosted face-melting is incredibly frustrating to hit over and over in PVP. While bigger rosters have always ruled the roost in this game (duh), PVP has been reduced to “who has the biggest okoye and the most healthpacks? Here’s your free placement.” I feel like raising Hulk’s Green Door threshold by a tile or two would slow the team down a bit, but in the grand scheme of things wouldn’t really hinder the pairing that greatly. Everybody with their 500+ okoyes can still float and clog forever in PVP and cruise to T20 placement in pve just fine. Though, that’s a suggested Hulk nerf so I guess not really the spirit of this post.