Nerf Okoye

DAZ0273

I have said it before and I will say it again: 5* Cyclops. Cyclops in MPQ already has an established relationship with team up tiles so giving him a passive or a cheap active that drains enemy team ups is a total non brainer to me and would not be a shoehorned gimmick - "Cyclops brilliant mastery of strategy causes his enemies to fall apart under pressure, drain all team-up AP" or along those lines.

ThaRoadWarrior

I think if she were nerfed, focus would shift to Apocalypse if it hasn't already. 

SnowcaTT

JaGo said:

acescracked said:

 Oh, I'm pretty sure that ursopro opened his one liner post as a joke post messing around. People here take the bait and it's gone viral.with 10 pages! 😄😀

A few of us very early on speculated that the OP was trolling. My post in particular was completely removed by a forum moderator as off topic, so this post may also be censored.

On topic, Okoye should not be changed in any way shape or form. It’s simply just not necessary.

-JaGo

I assumed in December OP was very much in jest/joking.

Since then I watch all these Okoye vaults and realize the joke has become something that it's time to do.

ursopro: thinker ahead of his time.

Michael1957

All these fixes target Okoye primarily, which is unique to almost any other power. I still think an active power of “ Block all enemy passive powers for X turns “ would work without specifically targeting Okoye or Hulkoye users. 

KGB

Michael1957 said:

All these fixes target Okoye primarily, which is unique to almost any other power. I still think an active power of “ Block all enemy passive powers for X turns “ would work without specifically targeting Okoye or Hulkoye users. 

Unfortunately such a power would likely be considered incredibly powerful by the Dev team since it would block for example all the passive AP gain by goons which would dramatically affect PvE. So it's cost would likely be crazy high for a few turns (like 10-12 AP for 3 turns) which wouldn't really help much (not to mention that during those turns her team up drain wouldn't happen either).

Right now the tile percentages are 15/15/15/15/15/15/10 with 10% being team up. Imagine a passive similar to Domino's (increases Black tile drop) but instead it reduced team up drop by 6% so that the drop percentages were 16/16/16/16/16/16/4. Now there would be a dearth of team up tiles on the board...

KGB

thedarkphoenix

KGB said:

Michael1957 said:

All these fixes target Okoye primarily, which is unique to almost any other power. I still think an active power of “ Block all enemy passive powers for X turns “ would work without specifically targeting Okoye or Hulkoye users. 

Unfortunately such a power would likely be considered incredibly powerful by the Dev team since it would block for example all the passive AP gain by goons which would dramatically affect PvE. So it's cost would likely be crazy high for a few turns (like 10-12 AP for 3 turns) which wouldn't really help much (not to mention that during those turns her team up drain wouldn't happen either).

Right now the tile percentages are 15/15/15/15/15/15/10 with 10% being team up. Imagine a passive similar to Domino's (increases Black tile drop) but instead it reduced team up drop by 6% so that the drop percentages were 16/16/16/16/16/16/4. Now there would be a dearth of team up tiles on the board...

KGB

It really wouldn't be that bad, especially if the goons still gain AP, it just means when if wears off they are going to drop all there stuff at once. In fact it would make some matches with actual villains or hero's even worse since they would actually fire there powers all the time instead of the goons using up the AP they generate.


The thing is it really wouldn't be super useful in pvp unless it was like 6-7 ap and lasted at least 3 turns by it could be a count down tile so that would make it a 6 ap cost a bit more bearable since you could match or destroy it. And as long as only one can be on the board it means that goons would at least get to unload there AP.

Michael1957

KGB said:

Michael1957 said:

All these fixes target Okoye primarily, which is unique to almost any other power. I still think an active power of “ Block all enemy passive powers for X turns “ would work without specifically targeting Okoye or Hulkoye users. 

Unfortunately such a power would likely be considered incredibly powerful by the Dev team since it would block for example all the passive AP gain by goons which would dramatically affect PvE. So it's cost would likely be crazy high for a few turns (like 10-12 AP for 3 turns) which wouldn't really help much (not to mention that during those turns her team up drain wouldn't happen either).

Right now the tile percentages are 15/15/15/15/15/15/10 with 10% being team up. Imagine a passive similar to Domino's (increases Black tile drop) but instead it reduced team up drop by 6% so that the drop percentages were 16/16/16/16/16/16/4. Now there would be a dearth of team up tiles on the board...

KGB

That’s also a valid solution but when I’m running Hulkoye/ Northstar 90% of the time I have 10+ TU by turn 5. He’d become more meta team as a counter to the new power. 

KGB

@Michael1957 - Hulkoye / Northstar is only viable in pick 3 like simulator. So if that becomes a Meta team there then I doubt many are worried because the AI would never play that right on defense (it would use Okoye's Yellow) so it would be trivial to beat it.

KGB

killahKlown

Solution... change her so she only buffs active abilities, not passives. That way she'll still be strong in pve play, but not so much in pvp where the immediate Hulk passive aoe has become the standard.  Also brings back strategy of matches in pvp.  Using hulk okoye is just autopilot  now.

ursopro

killahKlown said:

Solution... change her so she only buffs active abilities, not passives. That way she'll still be strong in pve play, but not so much in pvp where the immediate Hulk passive aoe has become the standard.  Also brings back strategy of matches in pvp.  Using hulk okoye is just autopilot  now.

This sounds like a good compromise ti balance the character.

Thanks for the input and keep the ideas coming guys, I really think we have something good here!

BigSoftieFF

I heard level 508 Kitty got nerfed recently, maybe even level 465 Phoenix. Keep the hope alive.

freakygeek

Some things to keep in mind.

1) If a nerfbat comes for Okoye, it will be an over-nerf like it always is and will destroy any usefulness the character has.  She would be new best friends with Gambit.

2) Most people with Okoye had her on the shelf collecting dust until iHulk came along.  Thorkoye had long since been passed by in the meta.  Okoye is only relevant and discussed because of iHulk acceleration.  The interesting thing here is that on move 1 (the one everyone here is complaining about) enemy Okoye has 0 team up and all the damage comes from iHulk himself.

3) As someone else brought up, all removing Okoye from the equation would do is move Apocalypse to the top.  He would take 2 yellow matches with an AP boost to fire his yellow and then accomplish the same thing except without the worry of team-up drain that Okoye has.

IMOHO with Adam Warlock and iHulk clearly passive damage is the new thing and a Quake like character in the 5* meta would be the best counter.

PiMacleod

Still waiting on Leech...

(I posted the idea in the new character idea section)

Yellow passive - at the start of your turn, "blank" the text and effect of one randomly selected enemy passive ability for 1 turn.
Level 2 - if you have 10 yellow AP, blank up to two randomly selected enemy passive abilities for 1 turn.
Level 3 - reduced requirement from 10 to 6 yellow AP.
Level 4 - if you have 10 purple AP, blank another randomly selected enemy passive ability for 1 turn.
Level 5 - reduced requirement from 10 purple AP to 6 purple AP.

The overall ability remains the same from before, but i might've had something slightly different here or there.  Doing this on a phone leaves a lot to be desired... So im not about to flip back and forth through mobile phone pages to reference it. 

All of this to say, i know such a character wouldnt have much use in PvE, but it would be super interesting in PvP, where passives rule the game.  Since you cant choose which ones to blank, you cant guarantee outcomes, but no matter what, he would disrupt some sort of enemy plan.  This could be a thorn in Okoye's side, or iHulk, or BRB, or Kitty, or Polaris.... Etc.

I guess you could say i fall into that 3rd category -- present more options via new characters or buffs to old characters. 

ThaRoadWarrior

freakygeek said:

[...]IMOHO with Adam Warlock and iHulk clearly passive damage is the new thing and a Quake like character in the 5* meta would be the best counter.

I would be willing to bet that 5* Magneto was somebody's attempt to do that, but as with all active counters to passive threats, he doesn't work as intended. His blue is cheap and converts green to yellow while he removes himself from the board - if it kept turning green to yellow while airborne, this would be great, but it doesn't, so it isn't.

He passively increases by percentage (this is actually strong design, since it doesn't require him to be at excessive levels to do it) the effectiveness of Protect tiles for every active X-Man on the team, but until a BRB-esque passive tile spammer appears, you're looking at a 3rd in pick-3 for it to work rather than a pick-2 pvp savior. So getting back to that Gambit example, Magneto is hanging out with Lumbercap and Archangel already even before any hypothetical nerf.

Bad

Even with the best start apocalypse needs 2 turns to collect 7 AP and then fire it. 3 turns on a great lucky start for ihulk damaging like 10 k more on the turn 4. It will happen counted times, being the usual hapoening collecting 7 AP on turn 5. Boosting Ihulk on turn 7. And being happy. 

Okoye in the same lucky start is boosting damage on turn 2,  plus as she could be hyper leveled she could tank Ihulk and the damage just accumulates on next turns. Being so a lot faster and more damaging than apocalypse,  even more if using healing  yellow power.
Apocalypse can be used as a meatshield for ihulk damaging more, but not, the real problem no matter how its exposed is okoye as all of you deep inside well know it.

ThaRoadWarrior

The complaints about Okoye being "hyperleveled" are so interesting to me. Like that's a trivial thing to do, and didn't take someone actual human years to accomplish through hoarding, or SIGNIFICANT spending through buy clubs or however that's done. That you're getting match up against people with 550s on their roster is the problem, not that a character 100 levels higher than mine is significantly better.

Bad

ThaRoadWarrior said:

The complaints about Okoye being "hyperleveled" are so interesting to me. Like that's a trivial thing to do, and didn't take someone actual human years to accomplish through hoarding, or SIGNIFICANT spending through buy clubs or however that's done. That you're getting match up against people with 550s on their roster is the problem, not that a character 100 levels higher than mine is significantly better.

A lot of people dipped on okoye exactly for to bend her rule and to take advantage of the meta.
Intently hyper leveling her to the point were she tanks a baby champed Ihulk. 
Exactly that fact is what Im meaning with hyper leveled, and so its used as there is no faster team both on pvp and pve.
When a character needs 40 copies for to bend a rule, being quite commited to achieve it, its not a healthy meta.

ThaRoadWarrior

When you say "bend a rule," that implies people are doing things they ought not to be doing. This is just making roster choices using resources. If you want to do it, you could spend a year saving up and then do the same thing in one of the special stores she's always in. I'm just saying that nobody is "cheating" or "bending the rules" by choosing which characters to invest in. It also doesn't make the character broken if having 40+ more levels on it is significantly better than a baby champ.

Bad

ThaRoadWarrior said:

When you say "bend a rule," that implies people are doing things they ought not to be doing. This is just making roster choices using resources. If you want to do it, you could spend a year saving up and then do the same thing in one of the special stores she's always in. I'm just saying that nobody is "cheating" or "bending the rules" by choosing which characters to invest in. It also doesn't make the character broken if having 40+ more levels on it is significantly better than a baby champ.

I agree with that. And I said it backwards as she needs a rebalance because she has an unapropiate power design.
Being better to fix the anomaly soon than releasing more AoE characters for she can broke the meta with them just as she is doing now.

Akoni

From a development standpoint, it is easy to nerf or buff a character to alter the meta. I am not a fan of it, but sometimes it needs to be done when a key component of that character was overlooked or more powerful than planned. My preferred method of manipulating the meta is by releasing numerous characters that cause a shift in how people strategize and pair characters. An example of this is Magic: The Gathering boosters. MTG will often release a booster set that does "A" thing. Then, they will release a second booster that enhances or combats "A" thing. 

Here's the thing, though. MPQ releases characters one at a time. There is no telling with a single character release what their goal for the meta is until several releases later. There is a [slim] chance that Warlock and 5Magneto are a part of some master plan to alter the meta, but we won't notice anything for at least several releases. There could be an amazing Adam Warlock team up with 2 future releases, but at the moment, he's not great. 

A part of me wishes that characters were released in mini booster sets of like 3 characters. The advantage for devs is that

1. They would have more time to test and adjust which would lead to fewer nerfs needed. 
2. They could also release a 3-star in the set occasionally to satisfy the beggars. 
3. It would also potentially create a massive increase in revenue for each release. 

The advantage for players is that

1. Multiple characters can be examined which would allow players to see a broader scope of powers and interactions. 
2. More interest would exist in each release since currently, many players will ignore the one release they believe is subpar and wait weeks for the next one.

As someone who does not yet have a champed Okoye and looking forward to it, I don't want her nerfed. I would much rather have other characters released who would counter her. Characters who successfully counter Okoye wouldn't make her obsolete, but merely expand the number of usable teams in the meta.