Nerf Okoye

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  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    658_2 said:
    I play scl 10 slice 5 and in the last couple months the slice has gone from flipping once to twice. I join after my Monday and Friday morning meetings at work, consistently, and at 9am PST, for the first 9 or so months since CL10 opened up the count was almost always between 0 and 200; occasionally I’d even end up in the first bracket. In the last couple months it’s always already flipped at 9am and is usually at least in the 300s when I join, but often much higher. *CL10 engagement is way up*. The devs did a great job building that, with 3/2, many Okoye stores and Apoc. Why would they now nerf the most important character to CL10 and mess with that engagement?
    I mean....the other argument is "why should there be only one character that makes CL10 possible?"

    And the corollaries:

    "Why is CL10 so difficult?"
    "Why are more characters not released that make CL10 possible?"
    "Why aren't all characters buffed to make CL10 possible?"

    "Why isn't the one character that makes CL10 possible nerfed, then CL10 difficulty could be lowered?"

  • Zalasta
    Zalasta Posts: 285 Mover and Shaker
    I only play PvE with a roster of 18 champed 5 stars, and Okoye is not among them. None of my 5 stars are higher than 460. I have no issue getting through CL10 with my roster, though sometimes can't do three clears of the hard green mission. My two go to teams are Gritty/Polaris, and Apoc/Thor/Onslaught. I find them to generally be pretty fast. I can't imagine steamrolling CL10 with a level 550 team.  

    My 2/1/0 Okoye is next on my list to prioritize, just to see what all of the fuss is about. Mostly I think people are complaining about how quickly they can get through an event for placement rewards, but I see people complaining about not being able to get through CL10 without Okoye, which is ridiculous. CL10 should be difficult. As it is, it's still not really a challenge for level 550 rosters.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Seems like some of y'all may have gotten your wish; I saw someone in the patch notes thread saying Okoye's yellow can no longer be fired when she's at full health (not an official patch note)

    *Edit* - I got the update, and was able to fire Okoye's yellow off at full health on 2 different nodes in Infinite Pursuit, so this may be misinformation.

    It happened to me, I wanted to add TU at full health and it blocked it with the message “Okoye is already at full health “
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Was the rest of the board full of specials? Because I tested it on 3 different nodes at full health with no problem.
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    That would have to be the most pointless "nerf" ever.  
  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    san said:
    Zalasta said:
    <SNIP. CL10 should be difficult. As it is, it's still not really a challenge for level 550 rosters.
    This has the flavour of "you're supposed to lose" comments from a few years ago (Apoc team event, IIRC). 

    This game should be fun. While challenges of the puzzle variety (see the holiday human torch event)are entertaining,  continuous  beatdowns by overscaled, overpowered characters which you need to grind (think about that word for a moment) are not entertainment in my opinion. Those playing with level 550 characters rarely need the rewards that CL10 gives. Ergo, CL10 should not be catered to those players solely, but to a variety of individuals transitioning form 4 to 5 star rosters. It should not be insurmountable by any means. 

    Note, I am not saying that there should be no difficult games - that's part of the fun. What I am saying is that it improperly scales, thus making Okoye a bit of a necessity if you don't wish to spend the whole day playing the same match 3 over and over and over... Perhaps the answer is in reward structure. To be honest, putting CL10 rewards in CL9 would work just fine, in my opinion. Another option is to leave CL10 scaling as it, but reduce it to a max level (650) node that you only need to beat once (or twice if you wish for the competition element) for the full progression reward, rather than 3-4 as it stands. However, I know that they will not do this, or if they do, will undoubtedly introduce some kind of trade off that would be detrimental to the player base. 

    I think the SCLs are right where they need to be.  SCL 10 isn't really for those still building 5*; the enemies get up to twice the level of a mid-champed 4* or half-leveled 5*.  SCL 9 is more that speed.  SCL 10 was really designed for 5* champ players, specifically those looking for a bigger challenge for their powerful rosters.  It is not really catered to 550 players because it is still a walk in the park for them, just a slightly longer walk in the park than the lower SCLs.  If they were to make SCL 11 with enemies up to 850, that would be designed to truly challenge 550s, and because there are so few players at that level, I don't expect to ever see it.

    As someone who has been playing SCL 10 with two 5* champs for only the last few months, I really enjoy the challenge node where there is a legitimate threat that I might lose.  Even in SCL 10, after champing a couple 5*s I don't get that level of challenge very often any more.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2021
    I agree with the previous post. SCL 9 is too easy with 1 or 2 key 5*,  10 is very challenging. I realize it’s mostly for whales playing 7 years spending tons of money , but I enjoy the challenge of not just walking over every opponent. That’s not an enjoyable game if the outcome is already 99.9% predetermined. I can’t even believe players with 5 or more 5* prior to the release of SCL 10 would even have stuck around to play such a boring game , I know I would have quit as the embarrassment  of no challenge in battle would have sent me packing . I realize there will be always be 12th graders beating up 4th graders somewhere, I just can’t understand it though .
  • san
    san Posts: 421 Mover and Shaker
    Theghouse said:
    san said:
    Zalasta said:
    <SNIP. CL10 should be difficult. As it is, it's still not really a challenge for level 550 rosters.
    This has the flavour of "you're supposed to lose" comments from a few years ago (Apoc team event, IIRC). 

    This game should be fun. While challenges of the puzzle variety (see the holiday human torch event)are entertaining,  continuous  beatdowns by overscaled, overpowered characters which you need to grind (think about that word for a moment) are not entertainment in my opinion. Those playing with level 550 characters rarely need the rewards that CL10 gives. Ergo, CL10 should not be catered to those players solely, but to a variety of individuals transitioning form 4 to 5 star rosters. It should not be insurmountable by any means. 

    Note, I am not saying that there should be no difficult games - that's part of the fun. What I am saying is that it improperly scales, thus making Okoye a bit of a necessity if you don't wish to spend the whole day playing the same match 3 over and over and over... Perhaps the answer is in reward structure. To be honest, putting CL10 rewards in CL9 would work just fine, in my opinion. Another option is to leave CL10 scaling as it, but reduce it to a max level (650) node that you only need to beat once (or twice if you wish for the competition element) for the full progression reward, rather than 3-4 as it stands. However, I know that they will not do this, or if they do, will undoubtedly introduce some kind of trade off that would be detrimental to the player base. 

    I think the SCLs are right where they need to be.  SCL 10 isn't really for those still building 5*; the enemies get up to twice the level of a mid-champed 4* or half-leveled 5*.  SCL 9 is more that speed.  SCL 10 was really designed for 5* champ players, specifically those looking for a bigger challenge for their powerful rosters.  It is not really catered to 550 players because it is still a walk in the park for them, just a slightly longer walk in the park than the lower SCLs.  If they were to make SCL 11 with enemies up to 850, that would be designed to truly challenge 550s, and because there are so few players at that level, I don't expect to ever see it.

    As someone who has been playing SCL 10 with two 5* champs for only the last few months, I really enjoy the challenge node where there is a legitimate threat that I might lose.  Even in SCL 10, after champing a couple 5*s I don't get that level of challenge very often any more.
    I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or perhaps I did not say it as clearly. While SCL10 was designed with the difficulty in mind for high level 5* players, the REWARD structure should be applied to SCL9 (or optionally, SCL10 difficulty scaled down). The rewards in SCL10 are what I imagine 4* players transitioning to 5* need, ESPECIALLY the progression rewards. 
  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    san said:
    Theghouse said:
    san said:
    Zalasta said:
    <SNIP. CL10 should be difficult. As it is, it's still not really a challenge for level 550 rosters.
    This has the flavour of "you're supposed to lose" comments from a few years ago (Apoc team event, IIRC). 

    This game should be fun. While challenges of the puzzle variety (see the holiday human torch event)are entertaining,  continuous  beatdowns by overscaled, overpowered characters which you need to grind (think about that word for a moment) are not entertainment in my opinion. Those playing with level 550 characters rarely need the rewards that CL10 gives. Ergo, CL10 should not be catered to those players solely, but to a variety of individuals transitioning form 4 to 5 star rosters. It should not be insurmountable by any means. 

    Note, I am not saying that there should be no difficult games - that's part of the fun. What I am saying is that it improperly scales, thus making Okoye a bit of a necessity if you don't wish to spend the whole day playing the same match 3 over and over and over... Perhaps the answer is in reward structure. To be honest, putting CL10 rewards in CL9 would work just fine, in my opinion. Another option is to leave CL10 scaling as it, but reduce it to a max level (650) node that you only need to beat once (or twice if you wish for the competition element) for the full progression reward, rather than 3-4 as it stands. However, I know that they will not do this, or if they do, will undoubtedly introduce some kind of trade off that would be detrimental to the player base. 

    I think the SCLs are right where they need to be.  SCL 10 isn't really for those still building 5*; the enemies get up to twice the level of a mid-champed 4* or half-leveled 5*.  SCL 9 is more that speed.  SCL 10 was really designed for 5* champ players, specifically those looking for a bigger challenge for their powerful rosters.  It is not really catered to 550 players because it is still a walk in the park for them, just a slightly longer walk in the park than the lower SCLs.  If they were to make SCL 11 with enemies up to 850, that would be designed to truly challenge 550s, and because there are so few players at that level, I don't expect to ever see it.

    As someone who has been playing SCL 10 with two 5* champs for only the last few months, I really enjoy the challenge node where there is a legitimate threat that I might lose.  Even in SCL 10, after champing a couple 5*s I don't get that level of challenge very often any more.
    I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or perhaps I did not say it as clearly. While SCL10 was designed with the difficulty in mind for high level 5* players, the REWARD structure should be applied to SCL9 (or optionally, SCL10 difficulty scaled down). The rewards in SCL10 are what I imagine 4* players transitioning to 5* need, ESPECIALLY the progression rewards. 
    Yeah, I did not get that intended message from your previous post.  I was under the impression your post was in reference to the difficulty level and what rosters can play at that level.

    I wouldn't disagree about reward structure, I'm all for players getting rewards, and people trying to transition to 5* absolutely would benefit from the huge difference in 4* and 5* shards in SCL10.  But devs and money and blah blah blah...
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 790 Critical Contributor
    Xair said:
    nerf lovers unite.
    support the call to nerf each meta char recursively until Bruce banner becomes meta.
    cause only then will, all nerf lovers, be satisfied that all the chars are sufficiently nerfed.

    or better yet, just nerf the 5* tier completely, 4* are more diverse anyway, why do we even need 5*?

    on second thought why stop with 5*? nerf everything. nerf every char in the game. 

    or even better, make nerf a part of the game. every char will gradually get a nerf every few weeks, 
    cause we love nerfs so much we just nee to see them happen all the time.

    i think i can one up even that, maybe we need to nerf other things not just chars, nerf rewards, nerf store content, nerf screens....

    omg i have the ultimate idea, nerf the forum.
    A game all about nerfing? Sign me up. It does kinda sound like the Marvel Universe. 
    "This character is too powerful. Let's have them perish is some weird ambiguous way."
    "Oh no, people actually liked that character. Let's bring them back, but mysteriously less powerful."

    Jokes aside. Would a game based on nerfing characters even work? Hmm...
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Xair said:
    nerf lovers unite.
    support the call to nerf each meta char recursively until Bruce banner becomes meta.
    cause only then will, all nerf lovers, be satisfied that all the chars are sufficiently nerfed.


    Pretty funny.
    Okoye is a classic who accomplish some big features on the 5* tier with WF:
    -Having her hyper leveled she will never had a handicap on her hyper fast skill
    -Having her hyper leveled her boost is huge and too fast and always will be abused on AoE passive characters 
    -Any new 5* release is judged by his passive and for not be too hard for okoye tanking him
    -On pvp she features an abusive meta when its too taxing to hit hulkoye teams, like the metas previously nerfed.
    Any game needs to change characters when its proved that there is no better team. WF should be rebalanced for a healthy game. Making it slower and able to play optimally at any level. Would you call it a nerf? Then be it.
    Oh, no wait! We cannot touch okoye because she is pretty popular.
    Nice argument.  And OML, gambit, cap worthy,and bishop were not lol.
    Xair said:

    omg i have the ultimate idea, nerf the forum.

    Sorry your ultimate idea comes late, there was a time when the forum was nerfed. It was a time when all the post were for destructive complaining and insulting devs. That time luckily is on the past and the forum is providing valuable feedback.  And I must say the game has improved a lot since then.
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    Bad said:
    Xair said:
    nerf lovers unite.
    support the call to nerf each meta char recursively until Bruce banner becomes meta.
    cause only then will, all nerf lovers, be satisfied that all the chars are sufficiently nerfed.


    Pretty funny.
    Okoye is a classic who accomplish some big features on the 5* tier with WF:
    -Having her hyper leveled she will never had a handicap on her hyper fast skill
    -Having her hyper leveled her boost is huge and too fast and always will be abused on AoE passive characters 
    -Any new 5* release is judged by his passive and for not be too hard for okoye tanking him
    -On pvp she features an abusive meta when its too taxing to hit hulkoye teams, like the metas previously nerfed.
    Any game needs to change characters when its proved that there is no better team. WF should be rebalanced for a healthy game. Making it slower and able to play optimally at any level. Would you call it a nerf? Then be it.
    Oh, no wait! We cannot touch okoye because she is pretty popular.
    Nice argument.  And OML, gambit, cap worthy,and bishop were not lol.
    Xair said:

    omg i have the ultimate idea, nerf the forum.

    Sorry your ultimate idea comes late, there was a time when the forum was nerfed. It was a time when all the post were for destructive complaining and insulting devs. That time luckily is on the past and the forum is providing valuable feedback.  And I must say the game has improved a lot since then.
    Is this sarcasm ? Because it’s hilarious if so.  Maybe the only posts I can read are before the nerf and I didn’t get the forum update . 
  • san
    san Posts: 421 Mover and Shaker
    acescracked said:

    ....What about 7 year players who don't spend any money? What's our label since "whale" doesn't apply. (I hit day 2555 in 2 days) <SNIP>
    This is the exact boat I am in... I am at 2200 some odd days and counting. I do not qualify as a whale by any measure. My measly 10 champed 5*s are all in the 450 range (464 is my highest, I believe), and none of my 4* have hit max champ yet (I'm at 345 with Kingpin, who has been on favourite along with Bullseye since the feature came out).

    I've sunk $50 over the life of the game, in a single transaction to roster and cover XFW back when he was the only way to play. I got burned on his nerf a short while later. Due to the unpredictable nature of this game, I never spent a penny since. Funny thing is, if XFW was still the way he used to be, he would be a reasonable choice in the current meta though not overpowered, as would 4Thor, 2* Wolverine, 2*mags/3* mystique combo, and many others who ended up getting screwed over with nerfs. Nerfing is NOT the answer folks, just a bandaid solution. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked said:
    Michael1957 said:
    I agree with the previous post. SCL 9 is too easy with 1 or 2 key 5*,  10 is very challenging. I realize it’s mostly for whales playing 7 years spending tons of money , but I enjoy the challenge of not just walking over every opponent. That’s not an enjoyable game if the outcome is already 99.9% predetermined. I can’t even believe players with 5 or more 5* prior to the release of SCL 10 would even have stuck around to play such a boring game , I know I would have quit as the embarrassment  of no challenge in battle would have sent me packing . I realize there will be always be 12th graders beating up 4th graders somewhere, I just can’t understand it though .

    What about 7 year players who don't spend any money? What's our label since "whale" doesn't apply. (I hit day 2555 in 2 days)

    Pve is what you play to grow your roster to compete in PvP where the real game is. Because of that "whales" would've still played pve without cl10 for the CP, HP, LT's in placement (player/Alliance) and yes even 4* covers for champ levels.

    CL10 pve does bring an added challenge for 550 rosters in placement competition. In Line app there are discussions on how to go as fast as possible and which supports to use, boosts. Human nature to try and win. Big rosters sometimes do play cl9 from time to time because sometimes you need a break and want to move tiles mindlessly but get some rewards. Always hated the forum view that players shouldn't go down in cl's. Many posts really guess at how top end pve is played and you guys get it wrong alot.

     Oh, I'm pretty sure that ursopro opened his one liner post as a joke post messing around. People here take the bait and it's gone viral.with 10 pages! 😄😀
    It was a fine level of baiting by ursopro, I am just surprised we didn't get the JJJ Gif. 😀
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    The intentions of the autor of this post are irrelevant to me as I stated my position cristaly clear.
    But if something happens to okoye then you know who would be the one to blame  :D
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