R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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Comments

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    For the record, I very much had a "wait and see" approach in regards to shards. 

    They're essentially colorless covers, a long-requested feature. I knew there were likely gonna be some  tradeoffs. 

    When they were initially announced and implemented and some people immediately went negative, I was still waiting to see what the full picture would look like before weighing in. 

    I realize there will likely still be updates to PvE and PvP placement/progression rewards to include shards. 

    But if this update is any indication, just stop. Please stop the bleeding. Go back to bonus heroes. With each update, it seems better and better in hindsight and comparison. Give us back our CP/HP/ISO in champ rewards. Keep the Mighty Tokens though, those are OK.

    How's the song go? "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

    Thanks for proving that true once again. 
    This is a fricking disaster! I don't remember something like this in 6 years!

    I was also having a wait and see with the replacement of BH with Shards, but it is now crystal clear what they wanted. Sell those shard offers for HP and money. And or course they have removed HP from all tiers, so now you need to buy HP for money,

    And on top of that they have screwed the release of the new Feeders! In one day they have "robbed" me of like 10 covers or more for the new feeders! This is just nuts.
    The first run Galactus was this bad (in rounds 7 and 8 and he was a certain team wipe in 3 turns). 

    And Boss rush was definitely this bad. 

    But neither of those mistakes had the breadth of impact of this system. 
    These were just a few events going horribly wrong, which was obviously bad at the time, but this is WAY worse, way way worse.

    Feeders have been added all the time to the game, and we ALWAYS got the missing covers retroactively. This is Devs just changing the rules for the worse. Today I lost like 15 5 covers. but this change has way bigger implications for the future and will force people to buy HP as it is not going to be possible to get enough HP with champion rewards as it used to be. They have just changed the economy of the game of the game completely and for the worse. This is a clear anti-player movement as I have not seen in this game ever.

    Like this is a big deal. Like really big deal!
    You are preaching to the choir polares!  I have been playing Cassandra ever since shards were announced.  It seems to me that all this stuff is just window dressing to mask a significant reduction is player resource acquisition rates.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    shinnaruto said:
    Everyone, we received a post on discord say that the rewards rolled out as intended.
    There was no error.

    Happy Holidays!
    100% true, confirmed by Anthony.

    Do as you will with the information.  No more rewards, no stage 2.  This is it.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    killahKlown said:
    Vhailorx said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    It feels like almost ever since they started feeders they made it clear that they didn't want veteran characters getting big pay days of 5-star covers from high-level feeders. Very rarely did they pick someone that a lot of folks would have at a high level, they would pick relatively newly released characters or unpopular characters. Then there was the infamous Discord chat where they felt they were giving out feeders "too frequently". Can't say it comes as a surprise that they changed the retroactive rewards for something much less generous. 
    This is definitely a true reflection of how demi/d3 feel.  But I never understood why.  In the most extreme scenario, the old system meant giving out 6x 5* covers to those players with level 360+ 4* champs. 

    But how many players have level 360+ 4*s without spending?  And how many of them would have spent more, but for a windfall of 6x 5* covers? That seems like a vanishingly small population, but demi always acted like it was a critical concern.  I feel like I am missing something.

    Six champ levels just don't seem like that big a deal for those players with dozens of 5* champs.  I know I use my 450 okoye a whole lot more than 455 SS.
    I only spend on VIP..and have many maxed 4s
    Umm, is spending on VIP not spending?
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    For the record, I very much had a "wait and see" approach in regards to shards. 

    They're essentially colorless covers, a long-requested feature. I knew there were likely gonna be some  tradeoffs. 

    When they were initially announced and implemented and some people immediately went negative, I was still waiting to see what the full picture would look like before weighing in. 

    I realize there will likely still be updates to PvE and PvP placement/progression rewards to include shards. 

    But if this update is any indication, just stop. Please stop the bleeding. Go back to bonus heroes. With each update, it seems better and better in hindsight and comparison. Give us back our CP/HP/ISO in champ rewards. Keep the Mighty Tokens though, those are OK.

    How's the song go? "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

    Thanks for proving that true once again. 
    This is a fricking disaster! I don't remember something like this in 6 years!

    I was also having a wait and see with the replacement of BH with Shards, but it is now crystal clear what they wanted. Sell those shard offers for HP and money. And or course they have removed HP from all tiers, so now you need to buy HP for money,

    And on top of that they have screwed the release of the new Feeders! In one day they have "robbed" me of like 10 covers or more for the new feeders! This is just nuts.
    The first run Galactus was this bad (in rounds 7 and 8 and he was a certain team wipe in 3 turns). 

    And Boss rush was definitely this bad. 

    But neither of those mistakes had the breadth of impact of this system. 
    These were just a few events going horribly wrong, which was obviously bad at the time, but this is WAY worse, way way worse.

    Feeders have been added all the time to the game, and we ALWAYS got the missing covers retroactively. This is Devs just changing the rules for the worse. Today I lost like 15 5 covers. but this change has way bigger implications for the future and will force people to buy HP as it is not going to be possible to get enough HP with champion rewards as it used to be. They have just changed the economy of the game of the game completely and for the worse. This is a clear anti-player movement as I have not seen in this game ever.

    Like this is a big deal. Like really big deal!
    You are preaching to the choir polares!  I have been playing Cassandra ever since shards were announced.  It seems to me that all this stuff is just window dressing to mask a significant reduction is player resource acquisition rates.
    Yeah I think this is something that admits no discussion right now.

    The sad part, is just with the BH - shards change, they could have accomplished most of what they want in the sense that we would need more HP to buy those offers. And they could keep poping those 50$ offers like the one for Kitty. This should have helped get more money, and I could understand that, the change was not as massive as this one.

    I also hate that they tried to sell this as a positive change when it is obvious it is a pretty bad change, and that they have screwed veteran players.

    The only thing I could think right now is that maybe it is time to quit. Maybe six years is enough.
  • shinnaruto
    shinnaruto Posts: 60 Match Maker
    I just do not think it was explained the right way on how it was going to affect players. Granted, that is a tough thing to do with the large player base with rosters and builds all over the base spectrum.

    This led to a lot of speculation. That has led to the outrage and players being upset.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?

    We players should definitely care about appeasing shareholders and licensors.  I mean that's only fair because demi/d3 definitely care about people who misunderstood the odds splash page and spent assuming they had a 1/20 chance of getting 5* bonus covers. . .

    Edit: I sincerely hope this is just sarcasm because hound has kind of sort of changed tune for once. . .
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    For the record, I very much had a "wait and see" approach in regards to shards. 

    They're essentially colorless covers, a long-requested feature. I knew there were likely gonna be some  tradeoffs. 

    When they were initially announced and implemented and some people immediately went negative, I was still waiting to see what the full picture would look like before weighing in. 

    I realize there will likely still be updates to PvE and PvP placement/progression rewards to include shards. 

    But if this update is any indication, just stop. Please stop the bleeding. Go back to bonus heroes. With each update, it seems better and better in hindsight and comparison. Give us back our CP/HP/ISO in champ rewards. Keep the Mighty Tokens though, those are OK.

    How's the song go? "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

    Thanks for proving that true once again. 
    This is a fricking disaster! I don't remember something like this in 6 years!

    I was also having a wait and see with the replacement of BH with Shards, but it is now crystal clear what they wanted. Sell those shard offers for HP and money. And or course they have removed HP from all tiers, so now you need to buy HP for money,

    And on top of that they have screwed the release of the new Feeders! In one day they have "robbed" me of like 10 covers or more for the new feeders! This is just nuts.
    The first run Galactus was this bad (in rounds 7 and 8 and he was a certain team wipe in 3 turns). 

    And Boss rush was definitely this bad. 

    But neither of those mistakes had the breadth of impact of this system. 
    These were just a few events going horribly wrong, which was obviously bad at the time, but this is WAY worse, way way worse.

    Feeders have been added all the time to the game, and we ALWAYS got the missing covers retroactively. This is Devs just changing the rules for the worse. Today I lost like 15 5 covers. but this change has way bigger implications for the future and will force people to buy HP as it is not going to be possible to get enough HP with champion rewards as it used to be. They have just changed the economy of the game of the game completely and for the worse. This is a clear anti-player movement as I have not seen in this game ever.

    Like this is a big deal. Like really big deal!
    You are preaching to the choir polares!  I have been playing Cassandra ever since shards were announced.  It seems to me that all this stuff is just window dressing to mask a significant reduction is player resource acquisition rates.
    Yeah I think this is something that admits no discussion right now.

    The sad part, is just with the BH - shards change, they could have accomplished most of what they want in the sense that we would need more HP to buy those offers. And they could keep poping those 50$ offers like the one for Kitty. This should have helped get more money, and I could understand that, the change was not as massive as this one.

    I also hate that they tried to sell this as a positive change when it is obvious it is a pretty bad change, and that they have screwed veteran players.

    The only thing I could think right now is that maybe it is time to quit. Maybe six years is enough.
    What I really hate is that all of this stuff is so obviously true to you and me, but players are still lining up here and eslewhere to dress me down sternly for being nothing more than a whiny, entitled baby looking for undeserved handouts.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Except for that they had to change their rules and the whole game economy for the worse.

    And it is not true this is free, you might have bought covers to get your chars to those levels, or get the VIP, etc. You spend money based on some rules, and the Devs just changed them for the worse (not some for the better some for the worse like witht the shards release, this is just plain BAD for everyone).
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?

    We players should definitely care about appeasing shareholders and licensors.  I mean that's only fair because demi/d3 definitely care about people who misunderstood the odds splash page and spent assuming they had a 1/20 chance of getting 5* bonus covers. . .
    Psst... this is called giving Hound a taste of his own medicine. 

    @Daredevil217 Only point you missed was reminding us that it's a business, not a charity, and they can't be constantly giving us free stuff. 

    Well, that business will have to figure out how to balance the books without my monthly VIP. A small drop in the bucket, I know, but something tells me I'm not alone. And maybe, just mayyyyybe, those who do Starks monthly (or more often) might start cutting back as well...
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?


    Daredevil is right
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    The new-feeder characters giving out lowball shards really feels like a mistake. If that was "working as intended," I would LOVE it if @Demiurge_Anthony or @IceIX or @Brigby would give us a rundown on what the thinking was there.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    shinnaruto said:
    I just do not think it was explained the right way on how it was going to affect players. Granted, that is a tough thing to do with the large player base with rosters and builds all over the base spectrum.

    This led to a lot of speculation. That has led to the outrage and players being upset.
    You're being awfully generous in giving them the benefit of the doubt by saying it "just wasn't explained the right way."

    I'm not so generous. I really do think it was purposely vague and hard to decipher. Why? Because it gets us this exact result. Confusion. Misunderstanding. Wondering why we seemingly received some rewards but not others. I really do believe that's a feature, not a bug. 
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    Food for thought:  the reason they held back on announcing feeders was specifically so they would all fall under this new structure.  They even said as much when touting feeders would've making a comeback.

    Just wow.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nicely played.

    The devs better have enough sales from new players to weather the drop in sales from the vets. :D  

    Probably that explains why they are so generous in updating 9 feeders for 5* simultaneously. 
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    JHawkInc said:
    What was received was not what was expected, and they knew it was going to happen, and deliberately danced around the issue instead of letting us know in advance.

    I got a great big delightful heap of rewards, but it still feels disappointing because it does not match what they led me to expect. And while I'll be honest that I only really cared about the 5-star rewards, the surprisingly tiny amount of other rewards by comparison had me curious that they'd only rolled out part of the rewards until I saw comments indicating otherwise.

    Surprise surprise, the root of the issue is communication. This whole thing could have been greatly alleviated with communication.
    Totally agree with all you've said.  Smartest post in all 20 pages
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    HoundofShadow said:
    Nicely played.

    The devs better have enough sales from new players to weather the drop in sales from the vets. :D  

    Probably that explains why they are so generous in updating 9 feeders for 5* simultaneously. 
    I wondered how you'd defend this, and sure enough you came through for me.

    They created the backlog themselves, clearly to put more of the feeders under the new structure and lesser retro rewards.

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