R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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Comments

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?

    We players should definitely care about appeasing shareholders and licensors.  I mean that's only fair because demi/d3 definitely care about people who misunderstood the odds splash page and spent assuming they had a 1/20 chance of getting 5* bonus covers. . .

    Edit: I sincerely hope this is just sarcasm because hound has kind of sort of changed tune for once. . .
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Polares said:
    DarthDeVo said:
    For the record, I very much had a "wait and see" approach in regards to shards. 

    They're essentially colorless covers, a long-requested feature. I knew there were likely gonna be some  tradeoffs. 

    When they were initially announced and implemented and some people immediately went negative, I was still waiting to see what the full picture would look like before weighing in. 

    I realize there will likely still be updates to PvE and PvP placement/progression rewards to include shards. 

    But if this update is any indication, just stop. Please stop the bleeding. Go back to bonus heroes. With each update, it seems better and better in hindsight and comparison. Give us back our CP/HP/ISO in champ rewards. Keep the Mighty Tokens though, those are OK.

    How's the song go? "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

    Thanks for proving that true once again. 
    This is a fricking disaster! I don't remember something like this in 6 years!

    I was also having a wait and see with the replacement of BH with Shards, but it is now crystal clear what they wanted. Sell those shard offers for HP and money. And or course they have removed HP from all tiers, so now you need to buy HP for money,

    And on top of that they have screwed the release of the new Feeders! In one day they have "robbed" me of like 10 covers or more for the new feeders! This is just nuts.
    The first run Galactus was this bad (in rounds 7 and 8 and he was a certain team wipe in 3 turns). 

    And Boss rush was definitely this bad. 

    But neither of those mistakes had the breadth of impact of this system. 
    These were just a few events going horribly wrong, which was obviously bad at the time, but this is WAY worse, way way worse.

    Feeders have been added all the time to the game, and we ALWAYS got the missing covers retroactively. This is Devs just changing the rules for the worse. Today I lost like 15 5 covers. but this change has way bigger implications for the future and will force people to buy HP as it is not going to be possible to get enough HP with champion rewards as it used to be. They have just changed the economy of the game of the game completely and for the worse. This is a clear anti-player movement as I have not seen in this game ever.

    Like this is a big deal. Like really big deal!
    You are preaching to the choir polares!  I have been playing Cassandra ever since shards were announced.  It seems to me that all this stuff is just window dressing to mask a significant reduction is player resource acquisition rates.
    Yeah I think this is something that admits no discussion right now.

    The sad part, is just with the BH - shards change, they could have accomplished most of what they want in the sense that we would need more HP to buy those offers. And they could keep poping those 50$ offers like the one for Kitty. This should have helped get more money, and I could understand that, the change was not as massive as this one.

    I also hate that they tried to sell this as a positive change when it is obvious it is a pretty bad change, and that they have screwed veteran players.

    The only thing I could think right now is that maybe it is time to quit. Maybe six years is enough.
    What I really hate is that all of this stuff is so obviously true to you and me, but players are still lining up here and eslewhere to dress me down sternly for being nothing more than a whiny, entitled baby looking for undeserved handouts.
  • Polares
    Polares Posts: 2,643 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Except for that they had to change their rules and the whole game economy for the worse.

    And it is not true this is free, you might have bought covers to get your chars to those levels, or get the VIP, etc. You spend money based on some rules, and the Devs just changed them for the worse (not some for the better some for the worse like witht the shards release, this is just plain BAD for everyone).
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?

    We players should definitely care about appeasing shareholders and licensors.  I mean that's only fair because demi/d3 definitely care about people who misunderstood the odds splash page and spent assuming they had a 1/20 chance of getting 5* bonus covers. . .
    Psst... this is called giving Hound a taste of his own medicine. 

    @Daredevil217 Only point you missed was reminding us that it's a business, not a charity, and they can't be constantly giving us free stuff. 

    Well, that business will have to figure out how to balance the books without my monthly VIP. A small drop in the bucket, I know, but something tells me I'm not alone. And maybe, just mayyyyybe, those who do Starks monthly (or more often) might start cutting back as well...
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    Vhailorx said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    HoundofShadow said:
    Yes, I agree some players got shortchanged for new feeders.
    No one got “shortchanged”. The developers gave exactly the amount of covers they said they would (at like 1 AM last night).  This is not a problem with the developers, players just need to manage their expectations. 

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 

    And if players are going to run around like spoiled entitled children here complaining about free stuff, why should this company just hand them MORE free rewards?? I’m sorry Hound, that’s not how the real world works. 
    Really Daredevil?  This is all just entitled whining?


    Daredevil is right
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,522 Chairperson of the Boards
    The new-feeder characters giving out lowball shards really feels like a mistake. If that was "working as intended," I would LOVE it if @Demiurge_Anthony or @IceIX or @Brigby would give us a rundown on what the thinking was there.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    shinnaruto said:
    I just do not think it was explained the right way on how it was going to affect players. Granted, that is a tough thing to do with the large player base with rosters and builds all over the base spectrum.

    This led to a lot of speculation. That has led to the outrage and players being upset.
    You're being awfully generous in giving them the benefit of the doubt by saying it "just wasn't explained the right way."

    I'm not so generous. I really do think it was purposely vague and hard to decipher. Why? Because it gets us this exact result. Confusion. Misunderstanding. Wondering why we seemingly received some rewards but not others. I really do believe that's a feature, not a bug. 
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    Food for thought:  the reason they held back on announcing feeders was specifically so they would all fall under this new structure.  They even said as much when touting feeders would've making a comeback.

    Just wow.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nicely played.

    The devs better have enough sales from new players to weather the drop in sales from the vets. :D  

    Probably that explains why they are so generous in updating 9 feeders for 5* simultaneously. 
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    JHawkInc said:
    What was received was not what was expected, and they knew it was going to happen, and deliberately danced around the issue instead of letting us know in advance.

    I got a great big delightful heap of rewards, but it still feels disappointing because it does not match what they led me to expect. And while I'll be honest that I only really cared about the 5-star rewards, the surprisingly tiny amount of other rewards by comparison had me curious that they'd only rolled out part of the rewards until I saw comments indicating otherwise.

    Surprise surprise, the root of the issue is communication. This whole thing could have been greatly alleviated with communication.
    Totally agree with all you've said.  Smartest post in all 20 pages
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    HoundofShadow said:
    Nicely played.

    The devs better have enough sales from new players to weather the drop in sales from the vets. :D  

    Probably that explains why they are so generous in updating 9 feeders for 5* simultaneously. 
    I wondered how you'd defend this, and sure enough you came through for me.

    They created the backlog themselves, clearly to put more of the feeders under the new structure and lesser retro rewards.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Does it amount to free stuff though? Seems like I lost quite a bit compared with the minimal gains. Guess the money I spent on the resources that are now devalued equals “free” somehow. Nice.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    JHawkInc said:
    What was received was not what was expected, and they knew it was going to happen, and deliberately danced around the issue instead of letting us know in advance.

    I got a great big delightful heap of rewards, but it still feels disappointing because it does not match what they led me to expect. And while I'll be honest that I only really cared about the 5-star rewards, the surprisingly tiny amount of other rewards by comparison had me curious that they'd only rolled out part of the rewards until I saw comments indicating otherwise.

    Surprise surprise, the root of the issue is communication. This whole thing could have been greatly alleviated with communication.
    I don't think communication was the problem.  IceIX did a decent job presenting complicated facts.  And while the comms were late, that is totally normal for MPQ. 

    The problem was that the changes had to be this complex to accomplish Demi's clear goals of reigning in champ rewards and limiting retroactive rewards, while also being something that could be hyped for players.  That's why they did all these feeders at once.  They were hoping that a big chunk of rewards all at once would obscure that, using the established system, there should have been many many more rewards.  And that's why the shards were split out amongst multiple champ rewards (to overwrite some existing CP/HP rewards) rather than just going on 1:1 over covers/LTs.
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  • Momo988
    Momo988 Posts: 15 Just Dropped In
    What’s clear is that the new feeders were treated the same as existing feeders. If that’s as intended, then it’s not what was communicated. If it’s a mistake, it would be helpful to know if it’s being fixed. Whether it is a or b would be a helpful clarification from The team. 
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,581 Chairperson of the Boards
    Daredevil217 said:

    You have to understand that in the real world businesses have KPIs, shareholders to appease, and licenses to maintain (Disney/Marvel). 
    The value of customer goodwill is highly underestimated though, the simple reality is that handing out the "full" amount of retroactive rewards, matching the precedent they had set for every single feeder change in the past wouldn't be breaking the bank, but it would have eased the doubts and complaints that people have had with the resource reductions in this change.

    Instead of taking that one-off hit that would have been negligible to them, they have needlessly alienated their longer term players, who realistically are going to have a larger proportion of paying customers within their midst than newer players, which seems a particularly unwise given their switch to this hp-heavier method of releasing new 5* characters. 
  • granne
    granne Posts: 852 Critical Contributor
    Momo988 said:
    What’s clear is that the new feeders were treated the same as existing feeders. If that’s as intended, then it’s not what was communicated. If it’s a mistake, it would be helpful to know if it’s being fixed. Whether it is a or b would be a helpful clarification from The team. 
    Exactly. I have no problem with the idea of not receiving shards if you've already received covers (especially since some of us will have received LTs as well as covers). It's the 20% of expected shards on new feeders that bothers me. If it was intended, it might just be the push I need to spend my time on something else.

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