R192: Champion Rewards Updates

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  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards

    IceIX said:
    Falconfreak said:
    shap328 said:
    So is this live yet? I have a bunch of maxed 2s that I’m waiting to sell
    I asked the same question, got no response so I'm assuming no.
    No, it's planned to be live this week, possibly as early as tomorrow (Tuesday).
    @IceIX,

    Is the additional info on retroactive rewards still coming today?
  • For_Asgard
    For_Asgard Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    edited December 2019
    DAC169 said:
    IceIX said:
    BagPuss said:
    The lord giveth and the lord taketh away, Looks like eye candy.

    Amount of CP gained has reduced, number of LTs reduced.
    Amount of HP reduced, so those few PvP players left will have to start spending more on HP. 
    Why couldn't the shards compliment current rewards?


    For the newer players it "seems" to open up opportunities, until you realise it's a 6 year old game and the entry point into the game should have been lowered (i.e every 1*, 2* already provided for you)... But this is a mobile game and related P2P dynamics 
    While I understand that the HP and CP rewards were lowered here one thing to keep in mind that players do not, as a rule, earn anywhere near a meaningful percentage of their HP and CP from these sources. So to improve overall flexibility of the rewards, the power of that had to come from *somewhere*. And it couldn't really come from Iso in all cases, as the values there are already very low. Although Iso value is another conversation to have...

    So in aggregate when you look at a 4-Star going from 270-370, yes. You lose out on some HP/CP. But in actual gameplay, that raise in levels comes over such a time that the HP loss is not really noticeable, since you're gaining so much more HP from elsewhere in that same amount of time. In the mean time, you're gaining further tokens at the comparable level than before, and flexibility in Shards versus covers with color choice and gaining Shards from multiple sources.
    Not a huge amount no, but the CP & HP adds up over time. If someone's using every token as they get them I wouldn't be surprised if that makes a few pulls from the new 5* token every 6 weeks. This will probably remove 1-2 of those pulls. Not much, but still a huge difference when it comes to getting 5*s.

    More importantly, you guys could have easily reworked the ISO-8, HP, & CP values to total the same in the end and still fit the shards in as you see fit. This makes it seem more like you're taking away from us.
    As one of those people that does spend things as they get them this is the impression I'm getting.  The reduction isn't much compared to the gains as mentioned but when you look at it over 178 characters (3 to 5 stars)  that's a lot of loss of resources that are not given out all that much elsewhere. I definitely do get a large portion of those resources exactly from levelling up. It's the reason I work so hard to champion as fast as possible because I rely on those resources to progress.  It will definitely slow that progress down. 

    As mentioned retooling so the total iso and HP remained the same and then adding shards wouldn't have been difficult. Or instead of splitting shards so that you get enough for 1 cover over 3 slots just give us the 1 cover.  You literally replace 1 cover with  less than 1 cover worth of shards and take up away. That is a direct loss of resources for no good reason. 

    I see most people are responding positively and that's great but I have to say I have a pit and a sinking feeling that this is not actually going to be an improvement for my gameplay and I'm worried that these changes aren't leading us in the right direction.  If in the end I am forced to spend more money to get HP because of shortfalls I'm probably just going to be priced out and have to quit. 

    I literally just champed 5 star wasp because I was short HP and spares covers meant I'd get some to open a cover I wanted and this could have meant I didn't get that cover that day. 


  • T_REZ5000
    T_REZ5000 Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    Daredevil217 said:

    IceIX said:
    Falconfreak said:
    shap328 said:
    So is this live yet? I have a bunch of maxed 2s that I’m waiting to sell
    I asked the same question, got no response so I'm assuming no.
    No, it's planned to be live this week, possibly as early as tomorrow (Tuesday).
    @IceIX,

    Is the additional info on retroactive rewards still coming today?
    I’d like to know as well.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’m opening all my stockpiled (non-LT) tokens before the rewards nerf tomorrow regardless of how retroactive rewards are handed out. Info will just give me an idea of who to shard for the pulls. Even though I hate the new system; I’m trying my best to work with it. And so meeting the players halfway and giving more info tonight is definitely appreciated!
  • T_REZ5000
    T_REZ5000 Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    edited December 2019
    I was hoping to get the retroactive reward clarifications before this shard store rotates.  There’s 2x 4*s there that I would pick up if the reward they give will also yield a retroactive reward.  As it stands I guess I’ll pass on them.
  • liminal_lad
    liminal_lad Posts: 477 Mover and Shaker
    Overall from where I'm at in the game this feels like a net positive. Looking forward to seeing how it goes in practice and also hoping the retro rewards are sweet.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Most people will know that F2P games' business model is simply this: you either pay to progress quicker or you grind away to progress.

    What's happening is, the general expectations or reactions are these when major changes are made:

    1) gets angry/unhappy when they have to grind more to get additional resources
    2) get angry when the devs monetise
    3) Happy when the devs add more resources on top of existing resources.

    If the job of devs is to make only the players happy, they have to avoid doing one and two. If not, the devs have to either rain down resources for increased efforts or sell resources based on Walmart's previous slogan, "Always Low Prices."

    There's nothing wrong with feedbacks, but if your feedbacks revolve around only "the devs are not allowed to take away existing resources/features and they should be adding more resources on top of current resources without additional effort or spending", then I think this feedback is not useful at all. 

    The players always want the devs to balance the game, but when they do so, they get upset. The reason is simple because the meaning of "balancing the game" as far as resources is concerned is this:

    Players: balancing means the devs are not allowed to remove or replace existing resources or features, they can only add on new features or additional resources. 

    Devs: give some and take some

    How often has devs rained down resources, and when they did, how often were players satisfied? When the devs rained down more resources (such as Power of Palaces/CotMT), the reaction is to demand it to happen more frequently. At what point will players be satisfied? 

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    No one said, but the reactions tell otherwise.

    "They should have added in Target Heroes instead of replacing  Bonus Heroes."

    "They should have shifted the rewards around champion rewards instead of replacing it with shards."

    "They should have put costumes in progression rewards instead of having to buy it for cash." 

    "They should have put Support in progression rewards. Support Bundles are money grab."

    "They should have made Saved Covers 1:1 for 5* because they "took away" Customer Support swap service (even though it is a goodwill by the devs and it was mentioned that it is not a permanent service."

    It will be typically followed up with something like:

    "How is this breaking the game economy?"


  • maltyo9
    maltyo9 Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    If the devs had given us all of these feeders at no cost, that would have obviously been amazing.  However, they have chosen to attach a cost to it, and that's understandable.

    If that cost had been less iso in champ rewards, then so be it.  I believe that most players would have been agreeable to that.

    If that cost had been less HP in champ rewards, then so be it.  I believe that most players would have been agreeable to that.

    If that cost had been less CP in champ rewards, then so be it.  I believe that most players would have been agreeable to that.




    However, they have chosen to remove 3 of the 4 forms of the in-game economy from champ rewards (and the 4th is a resource that is earned almost entirely through gameplay, and is only usable on a facet of the game that has essentially been abandoned by the devs, despite repeated calls for it to be brought back, even in its previous somewhat impotent form).

    While it may pain some to see so many of us point out the flaws in this new system, there is only one way for us to voice our displeasure (or praise, in the case of some), and it is on this forum.

    Unless you want to go to Discord and talk about tinykitty pie.
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,322 Site Admin
    Updated the post with more info on retroactive rewards.
  • MadScientist
    MadScientist Posts: 317 Mover and Shaker
    Will we get any Mighty Tokens we have missed?
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    I’m reading this as no mighty tokens and no shards we have missed at levels like 296 and 298 for for feeders past 300 since we already got a cover at 300. You only would get those 296/298 rewards if you haven’t reached 300. Yikes. 
  • Razuhlui
    Razuhlui Posts: 34 Just Dropped In
    Daredevil217 said:
    I’m reading this as no mighty tokens and no shards we have missed at levels like 296 and 298 for for feeders past 300 since we already got a cover at 300. You only would get those 296/298 rewards if you haven’t reached 300. Yikes. 
    REEEEEE, luckyly i've just 2 4* above 300 and my captiaint Marvel is sitting right at 296 damn
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    For each of the new 4* -> 5* feeders, if your 4* was over 280 and you previously got the LL, you will be given the 5* cover as a retro reward.

    But if you have a level 300 up to max-champ 4*, you will not get multiple 5* covers.  You will get the partial shards for the "cover" level you are working towards, +100 shards.

    So it won't be raining multiple 5* covers for each new feeder.  It will be sprinkling one cover for each, plus shards towards the next you will earn from the level your 4* is at.

    For junior-mid rosters, this is fine, and I am really happy to get this variety of single covers.

    I acknowledge that senior rosters who would have hoped for many 5* covers for each feeder as per previous generous single-feeder releases, there will be extreme disappointment.
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2019
    Looks like the shard apocalypse (shard-aggedon) got cancelled.

  • Freelancer
    Freelancer Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
    @abenness I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as, 4* with new 5* rewards will give out the cover from 280 and every Shard you would have earned up to the current level PLUS 100 bonus Shards for every milestone you've reached. So, by my understanding, my 344 Rogue will give me 1 Gambit cover, 1500 progression based Shards and 300 milestone bonus Shards.
    4* with existing 5* rewards will only give you Shards if you have passed an XX6 or XX8 milestone without reaching the next cover milestone. So, my 348 Sandman,318 Wolverine and 318 Drax should all earn me 250 Shards towards their 5*.

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